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azknight t1_iunoqq1 wrote

It’s not a true Trader Joe’s unless the parking lot is a cramped hell hole.

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Educational_Leg36 t1_iuoonpk wrote

That whole trader Joe's/condo complex isn't designed or advertised for cars or whatever. They literally said in an article that it's built for walkability for local residents

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Originalfrozenbanana t1_iuovzky wrote

build a grocery store in an urban downtown area and the carbrain will collectively lose it.

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AttackonRetail t1_iuqwf6g wrote

Walkability in Feb when its 5 degrees. Hell yeah.

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iandavid t1_iurftys wrote

Didn’t your mother teach you about wearing layers?

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laterbacon t1_ius17i3 wrote

Hell yeah is right. Coats and gloves are a thing and that cold winter air is refreshing.

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jahvape000 t1_iuq1ly7 wrote

Wtf? Just say "we couldnt fit a parking lot into the tiny overpriced area we decided to buy as a massive company...yall gotta piss off everybody in the hood parking on the st. Enjoy!"

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lightningbolt1987 t1_iuq9hxy wrote

I live in the neighborhood. Do you? I don’t care at all if people park on the streets. They are public streets not MY streets. That’s what they’re for amongst other things. I think my neighbors feel the same way. It’s why we live in the most walkable neighborhood in the state.

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Thac0 t1_iuqwj8q wrote

I used to rent about a block from there and my apartment had no off street parking. Some days were awful circling a few block radius after work for 20 minutes just so I could park and go home for the night. I can’t see this helping

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wearTheDamnMask_137 t1_iuroxvo wrote

They should dedicate some streets to resident-only parking if it's an issue. I probably won't shop there because I have a car and it's almost easier to drive to Cranston or Foxborough, but if I did, I'd park a distance away, like on Hope Street, and walk over. Personally, I'm comfortable on highways but not so much in crowded urban areas, so that's usually my strategy.

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lightningbolt1987 t1_iuqywob wrote

I’ve never had to park further than 50 feet from my house… were you on this side of Wickenden, llke Corliss landing near the Hot Club?

I would add, and I’m sure it’s no consolation: taking 20+ mins to park is normal in most dense east coast cities, though I know it’s not what’s expected in Providence.

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Thac0 t1_iuqzt4q wrote

I was on the corner or Traverse and Sheldon. People park there to go to everything on Wickenden. I’m just speaking to the fact that yes the uptick in local parking due to inadequate parking at TJ’s will indeed be felt by the neighbors. However if I was still there I’d be really happy to be such a short walk so 🤷🏻‍♂️

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lightningbolt1987 t1_iursf1m wrote

I don’t buy it. I live near there too—I’ve never had to drive more than 1 minute to find parking, never mind 20 minutes! There’s no way you couldn’t go one block up to Transit and find a spot.

And we’ve been spoiled. If we have to park further away as neighbors to have a more vibrant neighborhood with a super market then that’s fully worth it.

As you can tell, I have no sympathy for people who feel entitled to park right in front of where they are going. And I Im someone who has to park on the street where I live.

I fully acknowledge others might be annoyed by this reality of not parking immediately at their location, but it begs the question of why live in a walkable neighborhood if parking and driving is their priority.

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laterbacon t1_iusselj wrote

> why live in a walkable neighborhood if parking and driving is their priority

Because they are blind to the fact that their pretty and accessible neighborhood is that way because it wasn't designed for cars

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Thac0 t1_iuw6138 wrote

It might be walkable to get a coffee or go to a bar or restaurant but unless PVD gets a huge influx of high paying jobs parking and driving will be important and let’s not pretend that TJs is a grocery store that anyone will do they bulk of their family shopping at. When I was in the neighborhood I was commuting to Northboro MA and my neighbor was the dean of admission for Clark U in Worcester. We all choose to come to this city because it’s great at affordable but let’s not pretend it’s some walkable utopia that we can just pretend can exist without the residents having cars. Don’t even get me started about parking bans for residents without off street parking too…

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laterbacon t1_iuw86so wrote

or.. we could invest in Transit. With the density of the Providence metro area, it's embarrassing how car-dependent we are.

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Thac0 t1_iuw92js wrote

I’m 100% for better public transit. Anywhere outside of Boston requires a car to live, it’s like a death sentence to not have one. The amount of stress cars have caused me especially when I was near the poverty line is insane. I hate them but I have to use them all the same.

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laterbacon t1_iuwakge wrote

Yea that's all I'm saying. It sucks that there's no other legitimate option for living your life outside of your neighborhood without a car. It's an extra tax that people don't even consider

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total_life_forever t1_iur3ca8 wrote

This overlooks the fact that many in the surrounding neighborhood do not have off-street parking.

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lightningbolt1987 t1_iurb1e2 wrote

But you never need to go more than a block or two to find street parking. It’s never a problem here. Go to Sheldon Street or Armstrong Street anytime—always parking. This is city life. Sometimes you need to walk a couple blocks to park. I know this is mind blowing to Rhode Islanders who have never lived in another city.

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Jerkeyjoe t1_iurcvz4 wrote

Isn't there a huge parking lot by the church? Last I checked it's a free for all

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total_life_forever t1_iuttklr wrote

Lived in Boston for 10 years lol one of the hang-ups of city living was walking/biking back from the grocery store.

0

Old_Wishbone3773 t1_iuqrdz4 wrote

I don't like how providence is getting this whole zero car make over as quickly as it is happening

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laterbacon t1_ius1nfs wrote

Over 20% of Providence residents don't own a car (21.7% according to the latest numbers which are 7 years old at this point).

Nobody is trying to ban cars. Providing alternatives to driving in a city that demands it is something this city has been behind the curve on for far too long.

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Old_Wishbone3773 t1_ius1xy9 wrote

Never said banning, but all across the city are a bunch of projects that make drivers,driving, cars not a priority

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laterbacon t1_ius31m6 wrote

Because they're not a priority. Cars make cities a hostile place to exist for the people that live there. You want a place made for cars? Foxboro is right up the road with Trader Joe's and all the acres of parking you could hope for.

Providence was laid out long before cars, and cars have damaged the fabric of the city irrevocably, most notably Routes 95 & 10. A city of Providence's size should have a robust, reliable, frequent transit network. Take a look at Bilbao in Spain for a similarly sized metro area that does it right (https://www.bizkaiatalent.eus/en/pais-vasco-te-espera/conocenos/transporte-publico-estado/). Decades of car-first thinking have to be reversed and I for one am encouraged with what Providence is doing for the most part.

Some people are always going to drive, and that's fine. But there are plenty of other people who would walk or bike if they felt safe enough, or would take transit if it actually provided usable service.

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Old_Wishbone3773 t1_ius538w wrote

>Providence was laid out long before cars, and cars have damaged the fabric of the city irrevocably,

That's why Chicago's road grid is so organized compared to Boston or providence. The roads were built afterwards.

I'm not saying cars are not a priority, but bikes are not either. And there is a group of people who are clearly bike advocates who will not take no for an answer. Bikes in rhode island and new England in general, is a perennial issue.

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laterbacon t1_ius5jtw wrote

What in particular is your gripe with bikes? I don't own a car and my bike is my primary mode of transport. I can't understand how providing alternatives to driving is a bad thing.

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Old_Wishbone3773 t1_ius6wlj wrote

I love my bike. I ride recreational and for health. I think it is great the progression and evolution of bike culture blending into society, transportation. What I don't like are the nasty, forceful, progressive types that are pushing their agenda and not willing to except facts and or others differing opinion.

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laterbacon t1_ius7e75 wrote

What is the differing opinion though? That people shouldn't be able to use bikes for non-recreational purposes? Not trying to be a jerk but it seems like you're the one pushing the pro-car agenda with little to back it up except anger.

I love taking my kid to school on my bike instead of the car. Riding to the grocery store is refreshing instead of infuriating. Having protected paths to do those things on makes my life so much better. Everything for the past 100 or so years has been built around cars. Building infrastructure for other modes is not an attack on cars.

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Old_Wishbone3773 t1_ius8w26 wrote

My gripe is towards the group.. because unfortunately we are not living like in The Sims, where you can pick up and drop objects and push things around.. for example, the bike path advocates on hope st completely ignored the relevant criticism of the path and loss of nearly 100 parking spaces... the cars, if are able to park are going to park through the neighborhood hoods, 'who cares' the group says, well some of the neighbors do and they have a right to being heard.. and again, this is a perennial issue, so making permanent infrastructure for bike users for a few months a year is a hefty cost and headache for people, who, in large numbers, don't ride bikes at all..

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laterbacon t1_iusa6ow wrote

Nobody ignored the criticism, but the loss of parking is not a valid criticism.

It's proven time and time again the bike lanes are good for business despite the pearl clutching fears of drivers and business owners.

https://www.cambridgebikesafety.org/2021/09/22/bike-lanes-and-local-business-the-economic-impact/

The thing most fail to realize is that accommodating bikes converts some drivers into cyclists, making less demand for parking in the first place.

And before you say "what about the weather" that link up there has numbers from Toronto, Cambridge, and NYC

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laterbacon t1_ius5r94 wrote

> That's why Chicago's road grid is so organized compared to Boston or providence. The roads were built afterwards.

Ah yes that's why driving in Chicago is notoriously pleasant and trouble free

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Jumpy_Ring8409 t1_iunl5vz wrote

I’m confused…isn’t this street a one way?

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BrendanBSharp t1_iunvobb wrote

It is, and that’s only the exit. The entrance is on the other side.

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LilOrganicCoconut t1_iunr04y wrote

Urban Greens is a better store that supports local community and has a better parking arrangement.

Edit: education in the thread below. It be your own people :(

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Proof-Variation7005 t1_iuo066h wrote

Some employees recently went out of their way to say maybe Urban Greens isn't so great

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psyguy45 t1_iuoijb6 wrote

Shit, thanks so much for sharing this!!! Will swap out my rose colored glasses for some clear ones

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TartProfessional246 t1_iununna wrote

the entrance to the parking garage is on the other side

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N8710 t1_iuoff02 wrote

They have a whole parking garage??

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tads73 OP t1_iurjgtb wrote

I can't ve sure, there will ba apartment dwellers moving in soon.

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N8710 t1_iurnaf1 wrote

Ah yes, of course. And they will be stealing Trader Joe’s limited spot from us, so they don’t have to pay their building for rent in the garage..

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tads73 OP t1_iurjcij wrote

I saw that, not sure if it'll be open and accessible for 11/3.

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PM_ME_ASS_SALAD t1_iunm1u7 wrote

So stupidly conceived to have that bottlenecking a highway off-ramp.

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TartProfessional246 t1_iupfhpp wrote

there’s a plan to reconfigure the off ramp

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laterbacon t1_ius1yh5 wrote

I'm happy to hear this.. It should never have been approved as it exists. It facilitates the continuation of highway speeds onto city streets and is one of the most dangerous places to be a pedestrian

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Locksmith-Pitiful t1_iuonyw9 wrote

People complain about parking but what about the sidewalk entrances and bike/scooter parking? Most people are likely not going to be driving in.

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Proof-Variation7005 t1_iunmjk3 wrote

I'm not seeing where the trouble is? It's like any parking lot in a city. Sometimes you might have to wait a bit to get in or out.

It's not like people can turn both ways out of it or something.

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an-eternal-hum t1_iuoh578 wrote

>I’m not seeing where the trouble is?

It exits directly onto the Wickenden St off-ramp. The construction taking up a lane of the exit has been messy….this seems to have disaster written all over it.

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Proof-Variation7005 t1_iuoso45 wrote

I get where it is. I just think people overrate traffic around here a bit much

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an-eternal-hum t1_iuqh6in wrote

I use this exit every day. However mild you may find traffic to be, this will absolutely congest things significantly, and that’s a factor for people who rely on this intersection.

Not saying it’s some dramatic, up-in-arms change, but I’m confident in saying it will affect my daily commute in a manner I’m going to have to plan further for from now on. That’s something.

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FunLife64 t1_iuyrons wrote

Nobody goes to the grocery store 8-9am.

At 5pm today there was literally 0 back up.

0

lightningbolt1987 t1_iuqasdw wrote

I’m genuinely baffled about what people expect here. Trader Joe’s is building a grocery store here because there is a market for their store in this location—there’s like 20,000 people within a 15 minute walk. They offer parking for additional customers. Does Fox Point not deserve a grocery store because some people will drive here and not easily find parking? Where in the neighborhood would be a better location? This location also serves Jewelry District and downtown.

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total_life_forever t1_iur3qlg wrote

Fox Point already has East Side Marketplace and the Waterman Street Whole Foods.

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iandavid t1_iurgman wrote

Both of which are a mile away from this location, on the other side of a hill.

The key here is walkability; a walk to a grocery store that’s less than a mile away for thousands of people will make a bigger difference than you think.

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lightningbolt1987 t1_iurs4ju wrote

These are both is Wayland square, not fox point, which is far enough away to not be walkable. Real cities have walkable grocery stores and you don’t need to drive.

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BitPoet t1_iuonz3g wrote

This looks pleasant and straightforward with right angles and sightlines, and only one road.

Take a look at the one in Coolidge Corner in Brookline.

They have a police officer directing traffic in the intersection(s?) to keep the gridlock from overflowing out into several blocks each way.

It's also one of the smallest TJ lots, and not at all any normal shape.

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Negative_Current_124 t1_iup0xqn wrote

The Coolidge Corner one is a nightmare! I like the one at Patriot's Place. Endless parking and lots of space!!!!

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lightningbolt1987 t1_iv181ef wrote

I used to live in Coolidge and that market was great. Plus there was a green line stop right at the front door. Again—not built for drivers so, yes, it was a nightmare for drivers. Sorry—go to stop and shop instead if you want east parking. The world doesn’t revolve around someone from Barrington easily driving everywhere they want to go.

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brick1972 t1_iuqxe85 wrote

The sad part about this thread is that it just proves guys like Procianti right when they say there is no point in doing urban development in Providence without acres of parking since RIers are so addicted to their cars you would think the state was the size of Montana and therefore it's nearly impossible to have a successful business without easy parking.

Of course there is also a good point here, by locating it within the miasma of that gigantic oversized for a million cars intersection that it is also not really well made for pedestrians or cyclists (the designed route for a cyclist coming from wickenden would be to take a right on south main then u turn onto South water then come back across point for instance), and with only the 92 bus stop anywhere close that it's also not a great urban design.

I'm definitely for it happy it is finally here, and will shop here and I actually don't have a lot of better ideas for where it could have been located other than other 195 parcels or maybe in the mall at street level where borders was long ago (also absorbing the restaurant space next door)

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laterbacon t1_ius2ofk wrote

I agree with your points, but the 35, 60, and 78 all go on South Water/South Main right by the new store. 92 runs E-W and the other 3 go N-S

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brick1972 t1_ius59i1 wrote

Thanks for this I actually thought the 35 and 78 still ran through Wayland and the red bridge (like e.g the 33) but I hadn't looked in a while.

60 runs on much shorter headway than I thought. Feel like when I looked at it as a possibility for commuting to Newport it ran less frequently, but that was 15 years ago. I see it's a half hour even on weekends these days so that's better.

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laterbacon t1_ius6jgh wrote

yea the 60 was one of the routes that they recently increased service on, including the 30-minute weekend headways. They alternate down East/West Main Roads, so there's one on either side of the island every hour. Now you can reliably take RIPTA to Polo!

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AttackonRetail t1_iutiez6 wrote

This isn't about it being urban IMO. I think this is about the fact that TJ knowingly opened a "neighborhood" store that will underserve the many other people who will choose to shop it and didn't plan to accomodate the people who this store would have to serve until a more appropriate non-urban location can better serve providence, EP and everything adjacent.

Let's not pretend this store is strictly intended to cater to Fox Point and the residents of East Side when the next closest options are Patriots Place and Warwick.

0

brick1972 t1_iutpmhk wrote

You are making my point, not refuting it. You understand that right? The first thing all you people think of is "what does this mean for cars?"

Regardless, Trader Joe's only agreed to this development if they got a certain number of parking spots. You all know that there is a parking garage right? That's it not just 6 spots you can see in this picture or whatever? I am not privy to the details but I am privy to a lot of the basic negotiation that went on here.

At the end of the day Trader Joe's agrees with you, btw. They would much prefer to have the parcel to themselves surrounded by parking. They are not urban champions. I don't know where you got the idea that this was all Trader Joe's idea. But if we want better development then this is the type of thing we need to stop. And if it fails then that's my entire point about proving Proccianti right. Just pave over the whole fucking state so everyone has parking all the god damn time. It makes me fucking sick, to be honest.

0

lateroundpick t1_iuo2wbw wrote

Well, with all the bike lanes, Providence now has people just ride their bikes there. 👍

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dariaphoebe t1_iuodugm wrote

This but unironically

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lateroundpick t1_iuoqjxk wrote

I was being sarcastic.

−12

lightningbolt1987 t1_iuq9uce wrote

Right but you sound dumb because lots of people literally plan to ride their bikes here using the bike lanes. Myself included. We have saddle bags that go on our bikes, or some have cargo bikes, or just use backpacks.

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FunLife64 t1_iuo7o87 wrote

It’s really not that difficult. This off ramp only has any significant traffic between 7-9am on weekdays. Not exactly prime supermarket shopping times.

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EColli93 t1_iuoon45 wrote

What a shitshow that will be.

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Megs0226 t1_iunzmjc wrote

Of course it will be trouble. It’s Trader Joe’s.

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an-eternal-hum t1_iuodaw9 wrote

Get ready for this exit to be even more of a nightmare.

I have to use it every day. Definitely not looking forward to this.

3

Silentjosh37 t1_iup5img wrote

Love how all the people that are saying traffic isn't that bad over here, or that its only bad at x time obviously haven't spent that much time in the area, especially since the construction projects have ramped up lately. It is horrible, especially with the amount of people that have no clue how to drive in the city, and do not know how to share the road with pedestrians and cyclists. I avoid going that direction as much as possible.

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an-eternal-hum t1_iup5v74 wrote

I have a business in the jewelry district and have to use this exit daily. It’s been an absolute nightmare for the past year, and this is going to ramp up congestion and conflict and make it far, far worse.

It’s not a huge, dramatic thing, but it’s going to seriously affect me and people like me on a daily basis. That’s worth mentioning.

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Silentjosh37 t1_iup7syn wrote

Completely agree. I have lived here for 15 years. The traffic in that area has gotten significantly worse over the past few years, the first year or so of the pandemic reduced the traffic but it is back with a vengence. The endless construction has only made it worse. There are going to be so many accidents coming in and out of that lot and that is just gonna cause back ups all over the place, not to mention the increased vehicle traffic for the first year this location is open.

I keep reading that is gonna be for pedestrians and residents of the area but that will not be the case for the honeymoon phase of this store being here.

I am all for a trader Joes or an Aldis, or any option in the area, that specific spot is just not ideal, and I think a lot of the traffic studies were done during the pandemic, and before other changes were made to the traffic patterns in that area and are not inclusive of real usage.

Edited to add. - just looked at a traffic study done on 2/2021 and again on 5/2022 showed an increase of from 6000 vehicles a day to 8500. That wasn't the study that was done before zoning. Just a study.

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FunLife64 t1_iuyrt45 wrote

Today at 5 pm there were 0 issues. Even with lanes blocked because of construction.

0

WetNetBet t1_iup12d6 wrote

I can’t wait to shop there!

2

[deleted] t1_iupyxo4 wrote

[deleted]

2

lightningbolt1987 t1_iuqa9t7 wrote

This is why we are failing? CIC is full of start up businesses. International wind energy companies are moving here. Hundreds of thousands of square feet of lab space is being built. Infosys, Virgin Pulse, and other tech companies are setting up shop here. Dynamic workers who work remotely are choosing to live in Providence.

There’s traffic here because people want to be here. Only failed cities have no traffic.

Also, this will be great for Wickenden businesses because it will bring more people to Wickenden Street.

1

Jtownusa t1_ius5tri wrote

"You can check out anytime you like but you can never leave."

2

mikenice1 t1_iupb2e0 wrote

There's like 4 parking spots.

1

tads73 OP t1_iurkkdg wrote

About 170, not sure how they will be allocated among tenants. The way traffic will snake through the garage will be a nightmare.

2

mikenice1 t1_iurmd7x wrote

The best part about shopping at Trader Joe's is having to go to another store immediately after to get the stuff you actually want.

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LordEli t1_iurx7cx wrote

can't wait for the dating scene here

1

lightningbolt1987 t1_iuy8lv8 wrote

Guys: as of 5:30 tonight, opening day, no traffic at all. Some back up to turn into the site at the South Main off ramp but the right lane of that ramp completely clear to pass.

Meanwhile TONS of foot traffic. That formerly dead area of Wickenden now feels completely alive. Can’t wait for the rest of those 195 District parcels to be filled in.

1

tads73 OP t1_iv1370s wrote

I was there at 1pm, it was dicey for peds and drivers even with a someone managing traffic. I do agree the foot traffic on Wickenden brought out people and added to the energy.

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brick1972 t1_iv5he9k wrote

To be fair, a huge part of this problem is that they are still building the apartments and the safety fencing pushes pedestrians into traffic. Which is pretty silly and someone maybe should have come up with something better like building a protected sidewalk for the interim (like finish the ground floor well ahead of the rest and add a standard scaffold with plywood that you get at every urban construction site to allow sidewalks to remain open)

You could argue that the planners should have gotten that construction done before opening the Trader Joe's but presumably there are the usual construction delays and TJ's wanted to get operating before the holidays.

Anyway, obviously the weather had a lot to do with it, but on my lunch break yesterday (went to Geoff's and ate on the bridge) saw no traffic problems from 195 or on Water St., but a ton of people walking with trader joe's bags. We'll see how Saturday goes I suppose. But, with this in mind I want to point out that on Saturdays any of the popular grocery stores are a disaster, with, sure, a notable exception for TJ's in Foxboro which you know, has acres and acres of parking for the Patriots/Revs, and so is pretty chill and easy when the Patriots aren't playing.

2

amybounces t1_ivamw7b wrote

Where would be the most convenient place to park without screwing up anyone’s day? I love that there’s now a pedestrian accessible affordable supermarket in that part of the city! But I’m pregnant and avoiding riding my bike in trafficky, congested areas now due to the higher risk of a jarring fall so will be driving.

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tads73 OP t1_ivb5p80 wrote

I believe there is a parking garage entrance/exit on south water street with an elevator that will bring you directly to the TJ entrance.

1

relbatnrut t1_iuospyr wrote

This is gonna suck for cyclists biking past there

−2

Moltoconfusion t1_iuotn53 wrote

The bike path is on the opposite side where the photo was taken

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relbatnrut t1_iup3dyl wrote

Oh I thought it was Point/Wickenden

0

lom117 t1_iuqy6ak wrote

It is, just across the street from the entry.

1

relbatnrut t1_iuqywm2 wrote

If it's Point/Wickenden, the shoulder becomes a bike lane between (approximately) the end of the bridge to the gas station.

1