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arbrady t1_j9o6jo7 wrote

Raising from $900 to $1385 and blaming it on EMS raises and inflation. That’s ridiculous.

366

nyxnars t1_j9o6y1w wrote

Deadass. EMTs get paid basically minimum wage

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UuuuSERnamee00911 t1_j9oaad2 wrote

Emts and medics around the city work 2-3 jobs and are never home 🙃 can't afford it.

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York_Villain t1_j9otwxi wrote

I had a friend that slept in his truck three nights per week.

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polski71 t1_j9tbkw4 wrote

Slept in my car in the station parking lot March 2020. Was stupid common.

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soaponsoaponsoap t1_j9q5pqt wrote

Yup. I work as a waitress in SoHo and one of my coworkers previously worked as an EMT making $18.75. He quit and is now working as a server / bartender making more money.

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kinovelo t1_j9wzloc wrote

No, after 5 years, they make well over $120K all-in comp when you include pensions and fringe benefits, which are equal to over 100% of the base salary. And before you try to argue with me, I’d be completely fine with all EMTs making $100K if they eliminate all pensions, replacing it with a max 5% 401K match, and only paid up to $1K a month in subsidies to healthcare plans that you could buy at market rate on the NY State healthcare marketplace, which would stop after they stopped working.

2

Grass8989 t1_j9oes22 wrote

Paramedics definitely don’t.

Edit: Paramedics literally don’t make minimum wage.

https://www.joinfdny.com/careers/ems/

This is publicly accessible information.

−23

nickelflow t1_j9rtppw wrote

Yes, paramedics don’t make minimum wage. But their salary is still not the best compared to the COL in NYC.

3

cantcountnoaccount t1_j9p5m2x wrote

Until they put in their 20 and get pension and free “Cadillac coverage” Heath care for the rest of their life. You’ll never meet so many retired 38 year olds.

−30

chug84 t1_j9q432y wrote

You sound mad you couldn't pass their test.

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cantcountnoaccount t1_j9q4lac wrote

I’m vested thanks.

−7

chug84 t1_j9q62px wrote

Vested in what exactly?

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cantcountnoaccount t1_j9qm41d wrote

You sound mad bro.

−7

chug84 t1_j9qwql2 wrote

Quite the contrary. I find it comical that clowns like you always suggest that civil servants are living the highlife, have the best medical insurance known to mankind, have the fattest pensions, etc. If you think they have it so good and all retire by 38, why not take the test and join them? Answer is you're either too dumb to pass the test and/or don't have the balls to do what they do.

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cantcountnoaccount t1_j9r5709 wrote

If you don’t understand the benefits are factually incredible, I suggest you stock shelves at Target for 20 years and see what it gets you.

1

C0NEYISLANDWHITEFISH t1_j9riefw wrote

Lol, the city literally just cut retiree’s heathcare. What ‘Cadillac’ plan are you referring to? Medicare Advantage?

6

[deleted] t1_j9p74jv wrote

[deleted]

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cantcountnoaccount t1_j9pj9jr wrote

Let me know what other job offers the ridiculously good health plan (valued at $18,000/yr according to the tax forms) unlimited sick leave, no termination without a hearing, shift differentials, meal allowances, free training for your license and CDL, guaranteed annual raises, and a pension that vest in 5 years, to a punk 18 yo with no work experience and a GED.

It’s hard work at low pay. But jobs that don’t require you to purchase specialized education in advance generally are.

−8

StreamA7X t1_j9pm8wa wrote

It’s not unlimited sick leave

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cantcountnoaccount t1_j9pq945 wrote

Ok fair. However you can get a light duty position that can last multiple years.

−1

StreamA7X t1_j9pv4vm wrote

You are correct. However, light duty caps you at 40 hour work weeks. Which basically destroys your paycheck because there is no overtime in it. You are correct though it definitely is hard work for low pay, and the insurance and benefits are pretty good.

5

oceanblue966 t1_j9porgq wrote

Pension is tier 6 that isnt worth shit

3

cantcountnoaccount t1_j9pqoq5 wrote

Yeah, contribute 3% of your wages, get 50% for life starting at 55 or 80% if you wait till 60. What a travesty.

−2

oceanblue966 t1_j9prw63 wrote

You're doing the exact same job, for a lower salary (adjusted for inflation), and a lower retirement package. You are sustaining tiers 1, 2, 3, and 4 while they no longer pay into the plan, and they are getting the long end of the stick. You get far better returns in a 401k, and no public job offers 403b matching.

"Guaranteed annual raises" = "1% raise, 3% if you get the best rating in the organization".

Its not a fair system, but it had to be done, because NYS and other states are realizing the pension system is NOT sustainable, but they are obligated to do whatever it takes (including fucking over current public employees) to fund those who have retired and moved to Florida, not even paying NYS taxes anymore, who are earning 100k+ a year on a pension.

3

Jerund t1_j9pv29j wrote

If you are part of nycer, even if you retire in NYS, you don’t have to pay state tax. Doesn’t matter if they go to Florida or not.

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oceanblue966 t1_j9pxmgc wrote

I was referring to property taxes (which generally fund public salaries), but I didn't know that. Thank you.

1

chug84 t1_j9r89jx wrote

You say you're "vested" yet half of this bullshit you spewed is straight cap 😅🤣

1

Infinite_Carpenter t1_j9pd22n wrote

My wife was hit by a car while biking and a bystander called an ambulance. My wife refused treatment and we still got a $2000 bill. Mount Sinai told us there isn’t even an office we could call to contest the bill.

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Tatar_Kulchik t1_j9pgw35 wrote

Call the Attorney's General office. They got a $6K bill I received from a hospital reduced to $0 because it violated some law.

Also, don't have to call, you can fill out a form online and they will call you.

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medievalkitty2 t1_j9qrsil wrote

NY passed a bill earlier this year that prohibits surprise medical billing. If you are in a situation where you do not have control over which doctor ends up being your provider - say a hospital anesthesiologist - you are not on the hook for their bill.

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deckerthehalls t1_j9qgwzj wrote

The billing varies by agency. Some places won't bill you at all unless you actually get transported to the hospital, and others will bill you just for being seen.

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Infinite_Carpenter t1_j9qhmqd wrote

Yeah, I don’t think they touched her.

1

deckerthehalls t1_j9recea wrote

You also get double billed for hospitals because FDNY bills for an NYC ambulance in addition to the actual hospital. I forgot how exactly the bill looks.

1

polski71 t1_j9tbu80 wrote

And you don’t get a choice for city ambulance (fdny) or non city (mt sinai, presby etc). I know for fdny there’s supposed to only be a bill for complete transports, but I always wondered if the rules were different for voluntary hospital units. It’s closest available unit when you dial 911 so it’s a dice roll if that’s fdny, or other

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deckerthehalls t1_j9te86x wrote

Correct. The voluntary hospitals generally service the immediate area around them, but they can go pretty far depending on the agency. I mean I've been sent to entirely different boros while I'm working. You could call 911 in Manhattan and get a hospital unit from Queens or Brooklyn depending on what it is and where and what units are available.

Generally speaking though, the billing issue varies by agency. I know that Northwell ambulances do not bill unless you're transported. Pretty sure NYU and Presby are like that too. I guess Mount Sinai and others bill for RMA/AMA (refused medical attention). You can get around that by literally saying "no thanks I'm good" and walking away from them if you don't want help. Altho if you or someone else called an ambulance for you, chances are that there's something concerning and you should at least be evaluated if not transported. For me, I'd have to be unconscious to go by ambulance bc I'm stubborn.

EMS providers vary widely tho. I'll say that. Sometimes you get an excellent crew. Other times you're getting Dumb and Dumber. The EMS system in NYC and nationwide is hemorrhaging from the inside. We lost a LOT of great people before and during COVID, and it's hard to recruit good people now too. People don't wanna work in this profession anymore bc of the poor treatment and pay that we get. I don't regret my time in EMS tho.

3

Pool_Shark t1_j9p5h1j wrote

Just find one person at the top who is being paid 7+ figures and cut their job and all the sudden the budget is there without screwing over citizens.

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aguafiestas t1_j9pf8hf wrote

In 2016, FDNY did a hair over 1 million hospital transports (see here).

So you would probably need to cut around $500 million in administrator salary to make up this difference.

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donttouchthirdrail t1_j9qo916 wrote

How is 1/9th of the city getting an ambulance ride. That’s an insane number

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aguafiestas t1_j9qoutv wrote

It is a very high number, but it probably has a smaller number of individuals getting multiple transports.

Looking a little more closely, I think this includes more than emergency ambulance transports. It says there are 1,121 "total 9-1-1- ambulance tours" per day, which rounds out to 409,165 per year. Which is a lot, but also a lot less than the 1,092,752 "hospital transports" listed. So that larger number presumably includes non-emergency transports (and potentially lower levels of care than a full ambulance).

1

Erazmuz t1_j9qvhr4 wrote

You're misinterpreting what that means. Of the 1,425,719 reported calls for "medical emergencies", 1,092,752 resulted in a transport to the hospital.

FDNY does not provide non-emergency interfacility transport service. In New York City, non-emergency ambulance services are provided by private ambulance companies or a hospital's own EMS department.

It actually is that busy. It's not that a ninth of the population uses an ambulance a year, there are just some individuals who are hyper-utilizers.

Anecdotally, every paramedic or EMT will have regulars that we know very well. These are individuals often with poor healthcare literacy and chronic conditions that they are either unable or unwilling to address in a more appropriate setting than an ER. Then there's also the regular drunks, homeless people just trying to get a bed and a sandwich, you get the idea.

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aguafiestas t1_j9qymra wrote

Then what do you think is the discrepancy between their being over twice as many “hospital transports” as “9-1-1 ambulance tours?” Ambulance rides that start with something other than an emergency call?

2

Erazmuz t1_j9r44vs wrote

An ambulance tour is a shift, not a transport. For whatever reason, it's always been called a tour. Units run for either 8 or 12 hour tours. It's just referring to how many units are run. Any unit will do multiple calls a tour.

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twozerothreeeight t1_j9uhjck wrote

"ambulance tours" is an indication of the amount of units on the road. FDNY or hospital based 911 ambulances work, AFAIK, 8 or 12 hour tours. So a unit that is scheduled for 3 8 hour tours, that is actually in service for those tours, would be credited for 3 per day, or at total of 1095 per year.

I know it sounds weird, but when I worked in EMS they treated the different tours like they were entirely separate units. Performance metrics were measured and reported per individual tour.

1

DirtySkell t1_j9tf0ww wrote

I can personally name at least 5 patients of mine whom go to the hospital via ambulance at least 5 times a week. It's usually not even with the Fire Department but a voluntary ambulance instead which I believe isn't included in that cited metric.

1

Darrackodrama t1_j9p7eb9 wrote

Like find this money in taxes on wealthier New Yorkers and nypd cuts ffs

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atyppo t1_j9po7ft wrote

Highest taxes in the nation aren't already enough? How about cutting some bloat in government for once and giving the EMTs a raise from literal poverty wages?

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_Maxolotl t1_j9qwar1 wrote

> and nypd cuts ffs

they already suggested cutting some bloat in government.

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oy_says_ake t1_j9safsw wrote

It seems likely that these increased fees reflect increased real costs for the city.

in late 2021 nyc ems employees agreed a new contract covering june 2018 - july 2022. The back pay for the new agreement’s raises gets paid out lump sum.

The point: The city quoted the net cost of that agreement for fy24 as $73.7 million. The post article we’re commenting on says the new fees will raise ~$16 million in fy24. So even with raised fees we’re still $57 million short of covering our new labor costs.

And remember, now they’re out of contract again, so you can already begin factoring in the eventual raise they’ll be getting with back pay to july 2022.

Beyond that ambulances themselves have been in drastic shortage, which probably increases our maintenance costs substantially and increases the per unit cost of any ambulances we are able to buy.

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OneYungGun t1_ja4yxql wrote

Pretty crazy. Hatzola EMS has faster response times than FDNY, doesn't charge, and doesn't pay it's workers, they are volunteers.

Maybe more communities and neighborhoods ought to adopt a volunteer model rather than the model which has been failing for decades.

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holiday1020 t1_j9r68ef wrote

I dont see many private companies operating around the city

0

TrekkerMcTrekkerface t1_j9ogrix wrote

EMTs need to make more

Ambulances should cost less

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cakeversuspie t1_j9owq6q wrote

They should be fucking free. It is in almost every other CIVILIZED country

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ActualBlueCheckMark t1_j9r0vih wrote

People in the US abuse ambulance services.

Edit: Downvotes because you privileged fucks don’t know any EMTs.

−5

cakeversuspie t1_j9r4ugn wrote

Ahh, so because some people abuse it, that means we should let others suffer by slapping them with $1k debt.

Do you think people in other countries don't also abuse it? I don't see those countries trying to charge over $1k for an ambulance.

Why do you people lack so much empathy?

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ActualBlueCheckMark t1_j9r8r27 wrote

They get cut off in other countries or charged for it when they do.

This isn’t empathy, it is limited resources, when anyone can just order up an ambulance for any reason, they won’t be around for people who really need them.

Where is your empathy for those people?

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C0NEYISLANDWHITEFISH t1_j9rix6y wrote

So why don’t we do that, instead of charging everybody?

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1martini t1_j9s4w99 wrote

Because when you send an EMS bill to most people (ie people that aren't abusing the ambulance service) it gets sent to insurance and paid or paid out of pocket. However, when the ambulance picks up a john doe who doesn't have their insurance and never even provides a real name or contact information, there's nobody to send a bill too. You can't "just charge the people abusing it" because it's not a service that gets denied if people don't pay.

​

See u/knockatize's post. You think someone who calls thousands of ambulances actually pays for each call? How about somebody who overdoses in the street?

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C0NEYISLANDWHITEFISH t1_j9t7ylt wrote

Why not have that law on the books, but charge those who abuse it either financially or criminally? I’d rather it be free and the abuse that’s rampant now continues, versus the current rampant abuse in addition to charging people who have the audacity to give their real name and insurance info, ya know?

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1martini t1_j9t8k1s wrote

How do you charge someone financially or criminally though? If they won't give you any information, your options are to either release them and never see any money, or call the police and never see any money; not to mention the countless legal and ethical issues with trying to legally charge people who use medical services.

​

It's not just people who call 911 for fun, it's drug addicts who repeatedly overdose and will never pay, and people without health insurance who call an ambulance and go to the ER for routine issues. You can't just deny care because they won't pay, there's an obligation, both legally and ethically, to treat and stabalize them, yet you're never going to see a dime from them.

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C0NEYISLANDWHITEFISH t1_j9tlwqe wrote

I don’t think anyone is saying deny care to people. I think it’s that if it’s determined to be medically egregious to call an ambulance for something, then they’ll be charged for it.

Either way, even if they didn’t implement that, it doesn’t change the amount of abusive 911 calls in the system, so why punish those who carry insurance or give their real info? Seems by not making it free for all, it continues to encourage those who abuse the system to use it while discouraging those who might truly need it - a worst of both worlds situation, right?

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knockatize t1_j9srr4j wrote

It’s not empathy people lack. It’s money.

The taxpayer is not a bottomless source of cash to set on fire. Especially not on behalf of people who should have been in custody all along, be it inpatient or plain old jail.

0

iv2892 t1_j9pci6u wrote

If it wasn’t for the corruption and our money going into Ukraine we would have more money for this

−39

LeicaM6guy t1_j9pdxpy wrote

You know we can drop dump-trucks full of money into Ukraine and have a decent health care system, right? We wouldn't even notice it, and it's not like they don't both deserve it.

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BigDaddyBimbus t1_j9pesmt wrote

Ukraine has nothing to do with corporations fucking everyone over.

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Neckwrecker t1_j9pjmh8 wrote

>Ukraine has nothing to do with corporations fucking everyone over.

It does have a little to do with it (defense contractors).

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-wnr- t1_j9pjdo6 wrote

We can very much afford what we're putting into Ukraine. Much of that value is the original sticker price of old or used equipment the US will replace anyway. The embarrassment of the Russian military is a huge windfall for the American defense industry. Poland alone tried to order 500 HIMARS which we can't even supply. All the weapons systems we sell will in turn generate billions in service contracts, eventual upgrades, and ammunition purchases that goes right back to the American economy.

Combine all that with neutering the Russian military and strengthening NATO unity; while putting zero American troops in harm's way. This has been the bargain of the century.

4

TranquilSeaOtter t1_j9plr8h wrote

I bet you're the first person to screech about communism when people talk about universal healthcare.

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iv2892 t1_j9qw70p wrote

Not really , I think healthcare is one of those things we can do better .

1

09-24-11 t1_j9pr6mb wrote

Hey guess what mr whatabout we STILL wouldn’t put money into social programs if we weren’t involved in Ukraine. That’s people our politicans value corporations over people. Wake up.

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iv2892 t1_j9qvnes wrote

Im not exclusively blaming it on the Ukraine situation, but we always seem to have money for wars and stuff we don’t really need . Yes , we need a strong military but is not fair when other countries don’t cheap in nearly as much per citizen

0

09-24-11 t1_j9qwl0j wrote

Fair point and one you probably should have led with

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cakeversuspie t1_j9pebha wrote

>If it wasn’t for the corruption and our money going into Ukraine we would have more money for this

You're not totally wrong in that statement. Other countries rely on our firepower and with that comes most of our country's budget going to things like aid and weapons for other countries that are currently in war time, but Americans VOTED for this. Also I love how you're using Ukraine as an example but didn't bring up other countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran where we also spent tons of money. So let's not pretend that if we weren't sending money to Ukraine that ALL OF A SUDDEN we would have money for things like healthcare and infrastructure.

Just so we're clear, I agree that we spend too much on war mongering and not enough on things I mentioned above. But just remember which politicians were voted in and what their priorities are, and I'll tell you this, it wasn't the progressives who actually fought for things like healthcare reform. It's not progressives who want to abolish unions and keep slave wages in this country. It's not progressives that want to deregulate industries and it's not progressives that are trying to bring back child labor.

−4

knockatize t1_j9ozl05 wrote

Wherever they are “free” (going forward, use “taxpayer funded” if you prize honesty and accuracy) such services are abused.

Sorry the ambulance crew couldn’t deal with your heart attack because they were busy tending to a drunk.

Criminalizing emergency services abuse would go a long way toward shutting down “frequent flyers” who call emergency services with minor complaints.

−48

Ryuuken1127 t1_j9p0tsa wrote

>they were busy tending to a drunk

Ah yes, someone overindulged, so therefore they shouldn't receive free emergency treatment because they're a shit stain on society. Let's continue the course of obliterating people into debt asking for emergency (or any kind of) healthcare.

I really don't understand why Americans' first thought of any sort of free healthcare is "iTs gUnNa bE aBuSeD bY tHoSe wHo DoNt dEsErVe iT" (when in fact, they're the ones who probably need it the most)

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cakeversuspie t1_j9p2s9k wrote

>>they were busy tending to a drunk > >Ah yes, someone overindulged, so therefore they shouldn't receive free emergency treatment because they're a shit stain on society. Let's continue the course of obliterating people into debt asking for emergency (or any kind of) healthcare.

This is the part that kills me. Because A SMALL MINORITY of people may abuse the system, that means we need to keep the current system of people potentially using taxis to get to the hospital to avoid being financially crushed by a $1k bill from an ambulance ride.

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GnomeChomski t1_j9ptl5y wrote

Racist assholes are convinced by carlson tucker that 'some people' are leeches on the system...and are gonna take their donut.

2

knockatize t1_j9r5tyd wrote

It is nowhere near a small minority of the total responses - and that's the problem.

That "small minority" is responsible for a big mess.

While many 911 calls do merit an emergency police response, unnecessarily dispatching armed officers to calls where their presence is unnecessary is more than just an ineffective use of safety resources; it can also create substantially adverse outcomes for communities of color, individuals with behavioral health disorders and disabilities, and other groups who have been disproportionately affected by the American criminal justice system.

Did anybody in this thread ever think that maybe there was a progressive reason for not being a damn fool about people who abuse the system?

2

ELONGATEDSNAIL t1_j9p36vs wrote

I used to be an EMT . There are frequent flyers with non emergency issues very often and they deff take up resources. Most of the time it's just elderly people who are on medicare. These people are usually poor and they use it as a way to get free medication. There are also people with mental illness who have some episode. Bringing them to a hospital does not really solve the issue but we have no other way to deal with these kinds of people besides the police. But the worst kind of people are the ones who are just trying to score narcotics. I didn't see that happen to often but i imagine it does in worse areas.

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knockatize t1_j9ra186 wrote

Being drunk is rarely a 911-level emergency requiring ambulance response. Not unless somebody is driving drunk or aspirating on their own vomit.

And nobody needs EMT response multiple times daily.

1

cakeversuspie t1_j9p3f28 wrote

>Wherever they are “free” (going forward, use “taxpayer funded” if you prize honesty and accuracy) such services are abused. > >Sorry the ambulance crew couldn’t deal with your heart attack because they were busy tending to a drunk. > >Criminalizing emergency services abuse would go a long way toward shutting down “frequent flyers” who call emergency services with minor complaints.

So your solution is...do nothing...because some people MIGHT abuse the system? So we should keep using the same system where people would rather take the risk on a cab ride than be saddled with potentially crippling debt for a medical emergency?

People abuse the welfare system too, but that still exists. And imo, if the welfare system prevents just ONE person/family from starving or being on the street, I am more than happy with my taxes going to that, even if there is abuse.

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knockatize t1_j9pem7v wrote

Might, my ass.

People DO abuse the system. A lot. And taxpayers pay for it all.

This is classic tragedy of the commons: a small but significant part of the population monopolizing and misusing services that are for the -entire- population, and going unpunished even in extreme cases.

First responders can let the frequent flyer know about the existing non-emergency programs for the caller, and either they get with the program or face fines and charges. These are existing programs in many jurisdictions.

But not New York City, it would appear.

Google “312 Riverside Drive” in Manhattan. It won’t show up on a map because it doesn’t exist, but it is the reported address for thousands of fake 911 calls.

From ONE guy. In this case, an old crackhead in a shelter. (That’s “older individual experiencing crackheadedness” for the exquisitely sensitive.)

Last I knew, he’s still at the shelter and still messing with 911.

Which seems to be okay by New York. One idiot Karen makes one racist 911 call about a birdwatcher and the politicians fall over themselves to pass something on bogus 911 calls involving a protected class.

But when it comes to the other hundreds of thousands of fake calls they don’t do dick.

−22

MyBlueBucket t1_j9pfy8n wrote

not sure why you're not more concerned about the fact that people forego medical treatment due to high medical costs. People abuse any system, but the current system punishes those who have actual medical emergencies. Ambulance rides shouldn't be a for profit business.

My mother passed out all of a sudden at home one morning and I was freaking out and called the ambulance. She didn't want to go on the ambulance because she didn't want to pay for the ride but I made her go on. Fortunately she was fine, but why should she be punished for possibly having a medical emergency? She got a bill in the mail for almost $1000.

You're more concerned about the abuse by a minority of people, but not the abuse done by corporations that want to suck the money out of people suffering from medical issues.

10

GnomeChomski t1_j9ps72x wrote

The person you're replying to is a 'fiscal conserv-'...I mean he's a fucking racist.

11

MyBlueBucket t1_j9pzedy wrote

you mean the "fuck you, I got mine" party? Yeah was pretty obvious lol

8

Pool_Shark t1_j9p5szg wrote

System is abused regardless. Instead of costing citizens fine the abusers

3

_Maxolotl t1_j9qxmzk wrote

Tens of thousands of bureaucrats are employed by the government to do the job of determining whether or not people are "deserving" of government services, so that trash like you can be satisfied that people you disapprove of aren't getting help.

If we fired them all, we'd have a lot more money to spend on providing universal free emergency care.

3

knockatize t1_j9r4cip wrote

Not getting help?

First responders have to provide some kind of service to people they know full well are delusional because they've dealt with their shit thousands of times.

"One man with a cellphone has created enough havoc to be hauled over and over into court, but not enough to warrant a prison cell. He knows it’s wrong, and he apologizes to the judge, but he won’t stop*."*

...but whose cases account for countless hours in court, counseling sessions, medical appointments and other city services."

And we're on the hook for all of it. For everybody else in a city of 8 million who pulls this crap. Eventually some first responders figure out the calls are bogus but there's lots of turnover so it's a lesson that has to be repeatedly and expensively learned.

Services? There are craploads of services.

The services that work are the ones where he's put in a secure facility. With no phone.

−1

RChickenMan t1_j9rbjao wrote

> going forward, use “taxpayer funded” if you prize honesty and accuracy

You can't truly expect the general population to integrate conservative talking points into their everyday speech. It's widely understood that "free" in the context of government services does indeed refer to taxpayer-funded. This whole "it's not free it's taxpayer-funded" thing isn't the "gotcha" that you think it is.

3

knockatize t1_j9rdh6r wrote

Fine, call them free if you'd like.

You still can't endlessly dump false-alarm and non-emergency calls on EMTs and expect them to sit there and take it. Not for any wage.

You also don't want cops responding to non-emergencies, do you? That's the leftist talking point, but when some eager beaver fresh out of the academy arrives on the scene because such is the insistence of the Reddit masses, don't be shocked when a mentally-ill repeat caller who should have been in an inpatient facility gets plugged.

−1

RChickenMan t1_j9uur0i wrote

Well no, but you also can't expect people to sit there and take it when vast swaths of our society are unable to afford access to medical care?

1

knockatize t1_j9uykmz wrote

Tell it to the people who waste emergency response resources, and the politicians who enable them. A whole lot of access opens up then, but politicians don’t want to be in the position of saying “no” to anybody.

1

-wnr- t1_j9phhzv wrote

Are you arguing that they shouldn't be "tax payer funded", or that they should be "tax payer funded" but also come with more enforcement against abuse?

1

knockatize t1_j9ponnc wrote

It is is partly a taxpayer funded service and should remain as such, but that can’t be defined as unlimited services to everyone everywhere forever.

There has to be a “shit list” for people who misuse the service, so that it’s still available for people with legit needs.

1

tekdemon t1_j9pdekt wrote

It’s extra bizarre since the FDNY is a taxpayer funded service to begin with.

25

Scout-Penguin t1_j9pmp97 wrote

Literally 85% of the funding, over $300mm, for FDNY EMS is from non-tax sources; so, EMS in NYC is substantially based on a cost-recovery model.

16

C0NEYISLANDWHITEFISH t1_j9ritft wrote

I get that it isn’t, but no other emergency service charges you for it. You don’t get a bill when you need a cop, you don’t get a bill when your house is on fire, but you get a bill if you have a medical emergency.

7

tgblack t1_j9sep8t wrote

Careful, don’t give them any ideas!

2

knockatize t1_j9pqh5r wrote

They will cost less once the widespread abuse of the system is addressed.

24,000 bogus 911 calls from one person?

Thousands of calls from one person to the same nonexistent address?

On top of the usual deluge of frequent flyers, cranks, pranks, Karens, and lonely old people?

If nothing is done, that’s as good as condoning it.

If FDNY and every other first responder agency doesn’t have a chronic-caller strategy that results in the bogus calls stopping, that’s failure.

5

TheGabagoolKid t1_j9o7c0i wrote

I’ll just walk

107

LeicaM6guy t1_j9pdr27 wrote

You joke, but I've got a hard and fast rule - unless I'm actively bleeding to death, I'm going to take a taxi. I just can't afford an ambulance.

49

Tatar_Kulchik t1_j9phaea wrote

I once broke my arm and took an ambulance to the ER. THe ambulance didn't do anything for me- no medicine, nothing. Just a taxi. The doctor in the ER even said, 'unless bone is sticking out, even for broken bone just take a taxi'.

​

Luckily my insurance cost for ambulance ride is capped at $100 so wasn't the end of the world. But the price before insurance was actually $800

36

bigfatwhitebitch t1_j9qopr1 wrote

Please do just walk. If you're able to walk you don't need an ambulance. Ambulance is in a life saving emergency, not a taxi ride.

5

The_Lone_Apple t1_j9of4d7 wrote

Don't my taxes pay for these things?

74

bkornblith t1_j9ogq2x wrote

No your taxes go to Mayor Swagger’s entourage

121

akmalhot t1_j9oj8r3 wrote

It's every mayors corruption .

Bdb funneld over a billion to hos wife's passion project that yielded no real results. Administrators out earned treatment providers by 2x. Corruption

Getting anything done in NYC requires bribes and corruption

27

NinjaCaviar t1_j9p5huz wrote

Nobody who comes up in NYS is clean, it seems. Gotta get dirty to work the machine.

3

WagwanDeezNutz t1_j9ofrfu wrote

Your specific taxes covered a gallon of diesel and 7 bucks worth of hand warmers

22

LikesBallsDeep t1_j9orxks wrote

My city tax alone was over $6000. It should cover this shit.

8

[deleted] t1_j9ov7ru wrote

[deleted]

2

LikesBallsDeep t1_j9p47hh wrote

It's been a good decade for tech...

But yeah seriously, I know I'm not the median, but I'm also not a billionaire over here. There's over half a million people in NYC alone making my income or more and paying those taxes.

The problem here is never that there's no money for something, the sums allocated to various things in the city budget are mind blowing and not seen in any other city in the world. We just don't seem to get much for it.

9

sutisuc t1_j9op180 wrote

LOL where do you think you are? France?

8

Scout-Penguin t1_j9po1mv wrote

No; your taxes only pay for about 15% of the cost of FDNY EMS; the rest is funded through cost recovery.

4

P0stNutClarity t1_j9ol2m9 wrote

Your taxes are are being split between Ukraine and economic migrants in luxury hotels right now.

−20

JeffeBezos t1_j9peny1 wrote

That's a hot take.

Go back under the rock you came from.

7

flyingtamale t1_j9pw004 wrote

Don’t you have a Nassau County Secessionist meeting to be at?

2

P0stNutClarity t1_j9qb304 wrote

I’m from Brooklyn 🫡 geographically on LI but not politically so no.

−1

edaduas t1_j9oo2vu wrote

Took FDNY ambulance reluctantly once and the bill came out to around $1K for a two miles ride and two ice packs. That's some BS.

63

squall571 t1_j9p12nw wrote

The hospital bill is even worse, cheaper to die in the US.

31

[deleted] t1_j9qodnx wrote

[deleted]

0

RChickenMan t1_j9rc3mf wrote

Also there have been laws recently which overhaul if and how medical billing can affect your credit report. If a medical collection does end up on your credit report, it must be completely removed and your credit score completely restored as soon as it's paid off. So there's basically no reason to ever pay any medical bill unless it's in collections. My strategy is to ignore any and all medical bills and use my credit report as a "master medical bill" and only pay those in collections (and even then, only the ones which are "fair and square," so to speak).

1

edaduas t1_j9qp9rd wrote

They don't even transport you unless you sign first. In fact, if the ambulance is on the scene for you and you don't want their service, you've to sign a release form basically saying you refused their service.

−1

MonteXristo t1_j9qpm72 wrote

Interesting. I broke my Tibia a few years back and didn’t sign anything. And they never sent me the bill. Did get a free hit of morphine tho 👍

2

knockatize t1_j9obvu2 wrote

Lots of “frequent flyers” out there who call for an ambulance any time they have the sniffles. The EMTs know the addresses by heart. Could be hypochondriacs, addicts, or just plain old idiots like people with COPD who continue to smoke.

They typically don’t pay so the taxpayer eats the cost.

Anybody know what FDNY frequent flyer policy is, if they have one? Or is it “you call, we haul” and who cares what the cost to taxpayers and legit patients is?

51

Grass8989 t1_j9oezpq wrote

Yup, correct. Ask any EMS worker how many of their 911 transports are truly emergencies. People treat ambulances like taxis, and it’s the people who do the right thing that eat the cost. Granted, most of the “frequent flyers” have Medicaid (they pay nothing regardless) so this may be a way for the city to try to get Medicaid reimbursements up from these people.

44

scienceguy43 t1_j9rd9st wrote

Literally like taxis. There are people who call an ambulance to get them across town because it is cheaper than Uber.

2

wanderaxb t1_j9qaewg wrote

This is interesting. I once called 911 for a violent homeless man on a subway platform and they said they’d dispatch an ambulance and not police. Kinda felt like EMTs wouldn’t be equipped for the violent aspect, and police wouldn’t be equipped for the potentially mentally ill aspect. I wonder if cases like this affect emergency response efficiency and cost.

2

Metroncat t1_j9oltql wrote

I heard a story about a guy who drove to the hospital holding his intestines in his hands after his surgical sutures broke while laughing at a funny show. I think we’ll be seeing some of that if they make this price hike, since ambulance rides are already pricy.

39

Sad-Principle3781 t1_j9sf6so wrote

That's hilarious. I'd say look on the bright side. Less people calling an ambulance for frivolous trips or calling a less expensive ride for themselves.

0

Metroncat t1_j9su6nz wrote

Many people who call an ambulance for frivolous trips, don’t have any money to pay for them in the first place. Once, in the span of a week, I saw an ambulance pick up a homeless dude, who ended up on back on the street the next day in a hospital gown. A few days later, they picked him up again. That is just one week.

3

thisfilmkid t1_j9ogb0g wrote

Sounds like an issue for insurance companies to deal with……. Lol

I pay insurance to NOT have to pay for the ambulance when I need it, no?

And if you need to get to the emergency room, call an Uber …. If your life is not on the line.

11

OGPants t1_j9oplgu wrote

How do you know your insurance won't charge you the difference as a copay?

7

thisfilmkid t1_j9p42oa wrote

That’s possible.

I have health care benefits from my company, and so hospital visits are $150.

Next open enrollment, they may increase the copay. But that’s IF I accept to rollover to the new medical benefits. I didn’t accept this year, so my benefits remained the same.

1

mikere t1_j9pi54f wrote

nah do the lyft wait and save if you need to go to the ER

1

manormortal t1_j9op7g0 wrote

So if I get hit by a car ill still have to take the bus to the hospital eh?

9

PSEL14 t1_j9oxtfi wrote

America is a joke , maybe if they didn’t spend 500b on military it would be come down 50% not up , I don’t get how you lot don’t protest about your military spending

9

shanninc t1_j9pbwiq wrote

I wish we spent 500b on military.

The 2023 federal direct budget for the military is $813b (which is more than they asked for).

That also doesn't include the hundreds of billions in state and local municipality police and corrections budgets.

11

PSEL14 t1_j9pc6ho wrote

It’s crazy , the way some people are living in America is crazy , extreme poverty . And then when they’re ill they can’t get the right health care it’s mental to me

2

PSEL14 t1_j9pcc0z wrote

I’d understand it to an extent of America was a poor country but it’s the complete opposite

2

Sparrow186 t1_j9qgjuw wrote

We’re too busy propping up European countries who can’t put up the coin to defend themselves. Waste of fucking cash.

−1

TwoBehindTheEyes t1_j9qauyt wrote

We did spend 500b on the military last year, it's just that it was the Ukrainian military

0

Grass8989 t1_j9pqcz3 wrote

Does this budget include the money that we send to foreign ally’s?

−2

OhGoodOhMan t1_j9qdojb wrote

Not even close. The US spends $4.3T annually on healthcare, which you might notice is several times larger than the defense budget, even if you include things like aid to Ukraine.

The problem is the lack of financial efficiency in American healthcare. We spend far more per person yet have worse health (using life expectancy as a proxy) compared to all other highly developed nations.

5

Fresh720 t1_j9oyxzn wrote

Too busy working or distracting ourselves. There's a reason why so many people were in the streets protesting during the pandemic, lot of shit was locked down

4

PSEL14 t1_j9oz7it wrote

There comes a point when you shouldn’t / can’t ignore it

2

Fresh720 t1_j9pcpmk wrote

Facts, there's a reason why they televised people getting beat on camera. Shit was a threat to the general population if they thought about protesting for anything. Even when you do it "the right way" there's almost no coverage on it making it useless.

2

PSEL14 t1_j9pd8wk wrote

Completely agree , the media has a tight grip on everything , push a false narrative to go to wars to justify military spending etc , they don’t put out what they don’t want the general public knowing . Plus wouldn’t be surprised if they started arresting people if a protest happened and got out of there control

2

mikey-likes_it t1_j9p034v wrote

Why are we charging for rides in the first place. Aren’t our taxes paying for this?

8

m1kasa4ckerman t1_j9p9g0r wrote

I love how Blade is cheaper than a quick ambulance ride

6

Mechanical_Nightmare t1_j9pa3af wrote

last year i sliced off part of my finger and was bleeding profusely but took a cab to the hospital for like $10 cause fuck that noise

5

Dalybrad2323 t1_ja6x00f wrote

Even if it was completely free you still shouldn’t be calling 911 for a cut on your finger

1

bluelion70 t1_j9paedp wrote

At this point if I was in an accident, I’d rather just be left there to die than to receive medical attention and become a debt slave for the rest of my life.

3

raynernycz t1_j9qqlw9 wrote

Seriously, I know people that have actually driven to the hospital or taken ubers for emergencies. THIS IS AMERICA.

3

epaulet-eva t1_j9pp6ez wrote

“Our raises were minuscule compared to what other first responders got,” he told The Post on Wednesday, referring to the $4,000 increase that raised the starting salary for an FDNY EMT to $39,386 in fiscal year 2022.”

This salary is shameful.

Even more shameful is using this meager increase to justify a huge bump in costs to people with no options or means to choose anything different. You can’t exactly shop around if you’re in cardiac arrest.

2

_Maxolotl t1_j9qvsel wrote

If you're conscious and don't have a life threatening injury, don't give them your ID. No ID, no bill. Patients bill of rights mandates treatment regardless.

2

monkeyballs2 t1_j9qxtt4 wrote

Lol reminds me of that time i stabbed myself through the hand and drove the two miles to the hospital but had to pull over to throw up and faint on the way.. it was such a minor injury and it didn’t occur to me to even get an uber.. id pretty much need someone hovering over me with the clear paddles to consent to an ambulance lol

2

ryanohkay t1_j9t626h wrote

If taking an ambulance in NYC with Medicaid had $100 copay, EMS call volume and NYC would drop by half at least.

2

someliskguy t1_j9ts3ty wrote

Next up: FDNY adds Square terminal with 20% suggested tip.

2

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1

ike_tyson t1_j9p3jxx wrote

If you're not bleeding or vomiting call an Uber or a cab, it's cheaper.

1

Constant_Speech_15 t1_j9plq53 wrote

Will this trickle down to emt pay, no matter, I'll call an uber, faster and cheaper.... even if i have to pay to have the cab cleaned

1

casicua t1_j9pmny4 wrote

Just take it from the NYPD budget, they’re useless anyway.

1

elkmeateater t1_j9pswlg wrote

It just means they get to bill more to medicaid. A large portion of EMS calls are drunk and or drug OD from the homeless who have no insurance. When they get to the hospital they get emergency medicaid which is then billed to the state.

1

Jimmy_kong253 t1_j9qeh3x wrote

Man can you imagine if the NYPD and FDNY justified raising property taxes by saying the firefighters and the police got a raise oh the cops and firefighters union's and their friends in the media would be having a blood vessel explode. Why does the FDNY hate their EMS division so much? Because it seems to be an ongoing thing since they took over EMS back in the day

1

SuperTaco12 t1_j9sn853 wrote

Its crazy bc rn one ambulance ride is more than the monthly wage of an ems

1

mrpeeng t1_j9pw0q9 wrote

I thought FDNY EMT made decent money and it was only the private EMTs who were paid minimum wage. Link At their old pay rate, my local 16 year old pet smart worker makes more money.

0

spacelyspocet79 t1_j9q2rxn wrote

Ahhh yes greed ass corp wants to raise it

0

iv2892 t1_j9pcdwu wrote

Sorry but our tax dollars have to be spent on Ukraine instead of our own citizens

−7

Butthole_Please t1_j9ppvjn wrote

Yea man. If it wasn’t for this pesky Ukraine situation taking up a tiny percent of our military budget we would have incredible healthcare coverage.

8

TwoBehindTheEyes t1_j9qb5yh wrote

Over 500bil spent so far in the Ukraine, not exactly tiny regardless of if you support the spend or not. Proxy wars aren't cheap

0

JustinVieber t1_j9r33nd wrote

We're giving out secondhand equipment to NATO allies who then pass on last gen stuff to the Ukrainians. The destruction we are inflicting on Russia is so cost-efficient it's practically free. Not to mention all of the MIC deals it's generated for the US after the world learned how hard our weapons slap.

2