Apparently the MBTA is having a tough time filling their IT positions to the point they're resorting to using a particular type of 3rd party recruiters located out-of-state to fill them

Submitted by goldeneye0 t3_zg2jj8 in boston

The MBTA has oh, so gotten desperate.

I got a couple of calls last night from out-of-state recruiters linked to the Indian subcontinent trying to fill IT positions for the MBTA.

I didn't even ask what the going rate would have been, but I doubt that these recruiters would pay 60% of what the MBTA itself would normally pay and I doubt any benefits would be attached.

The MBTA has stooped low this time around. I already previously wouldn't work for the MBTA before, them trying to use those recruiters will push it to a much harder "No" from me - I don't particularly like my career and reputation being sullied like that.

Big fail there.

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3720-To-One t1_izepf4y wrote

Could you elaborate as to why using these recruiters is so bad?

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sderby t1_izepv6n wrote

/r/Boston hates broker and off-shore recruiter fees.

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3720-To-One t1_izeqd22 wrote

I am understand hating broker fees, but the employer pays the recruiter fee… so what’s the issue?

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Doortofreeside t1_izeskl4 wrote

I personally had so many bad experiences with recruiters based in India. So many bait and switch postings, not calling when they said they would, calling multiple times in a row at other times when I said that was busy. It got to the point where I just stopped applying to any job if it looked like it was posted by someone based in India

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PCPirate262 t1_izfbytq wrote

I work for state gov and they got me through a contractor. State pays the contractor a percentage of every one of my paychecks(complete waste of tax money, what is the HR department for then?), and I don't get benefits. With my last contracting company I had to threaten legal pursual and file complaint with AG to light a fire under their ass to give me my paycheck

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goldeneye0 OP t1_izeq7ol wrote

I am not sure if you know IT recruiting in general, so here is what is not so good about them, namely the big ones.

  1. Many of these Indian recruiters horribly underpay and do not even have the option of things like health insurance (major dealbreaker for me) and PTO (annoying as hell).
  2. Also, there are a number of employers that view being connected to these recruiters as a negative.
  3. A few of these have been known to just harvest information for recruitment/interview fraud and H-1B fraud. I heard most common form of this is to use the body of a submitted resume, but change the identifying info of that user's resume.
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AchillesDev t1_izfqhau wrote

Recruiters don’t pay you, nobody cares who recruits you, the latter maybe I guess. Maybe you’re confusing recruitment and contracting agencies.

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Rough-Jackfruit2306 t1_izg5cvg wrote

>Many of these Indian recruiters horribly underpay and do not even have the option of things like health insurance (major dealbreaker for me) and PTO (annoying as hell).

I am not sure if you know IT recruiting... recruiters don't pay you. Or employ you. Or anything.

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mejelic t1_izgcqcd wrote

Unless it is a temp agency, which could be the case of the mbta just needs some grunts for a short term project.

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chucktownbtown t1_izg80h7 wrote

Very true. And the layoffs you hear about in the news are sensationalized for clicks.

Meta lays off 12k (whoa scary!) but fail to tell you they over hired this year but more than 12k, so they still grew their staff.

Many layoffs in the news are “right sizing” back to the beginning of 2022 levels.

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palescoot t1_izgar0s wrote

Best case, these bottomfeeder call-center recruiters will be incompetent but honest; worst case, they just want your SSN or other personal info.

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SkiingAway t1_izf4r64 wrote

The MBTA looks to have....4 IT openings? None of which are in particularly low-level positions.

If they're just hiring temp/contract low-skill help for a project, I'd imagine they'd be using recruiters and staffing agencies like that, yes.

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climberskier t1_izetuxk wrote

OP we get it, you were rejected from the MBTA and are salty about it.

You do realize that IT positions are very competitive these days, and the T is a public agency with a low budget--and can only offer low salaries. And is currently managed by a governor that likes to privatize things for the sake of privatization.

Yes, a lot of their IT jobs should probably be Full-Time jobs and not endless contractor jobs. But guess what, until we have a Governor that isn't pro-privatizing everything, and a public that accepts that it now costs more every year to run service because transportation has increasingly required more technology, that's what it is.

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lifeisakoan t1_izf0iju wrote

If you are constantly bringing in new IT people (which will happen if you offer poor benefits), it isn't going to be a surprise that things don't work well.

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Yak_Rodeo t1_izfe4dd wrote

its almost impossible for government agencies to keep up with the benefits and salary of private tech companies

even with the relative “safety” of working for a government entity, you can make far more in the private sector and government salaries are never going to be able to pay as much

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goldeneye0 OP t1_izev4mf wrote

I wasn't even rejected by the MBTA - I pulled out of it and thus rejected the MBTA.

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NoMoLerking t1_izepl0o wrote

I'm surprised they need IT workers since most of the system is from the middle ages.

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DumbshitOnTheRight t1_izetrx2 wrote

The fare collection system is undergoing major upgrades at all stations and levels.

Group have to ensure that PCI-DSS audits are passed annually.

Someone's maintaining the web sites and those payment systems.

The smartphone apps have sprints.

I've worked on contract for MBTA. Their usual contracting agency is a pain in the ass to work with, offer no PTO beyond the mandated sick time under Mass law, and bill a minimum 50% more than your pay.

When the economy does into a dip, contractors are the first to go.

They had a year to figure out if they wanted to convert my contract to employee and decided to fuck around, then they found out.

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goldeneye0 OP t1_izeqivf wrote

I had interviewed with them back in the summer of 2014, but decided to pull out of the process because I felt something was off about them and thus the MBTA has been in my blacklist since then and likely won't come off anytime soon.

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climberskier t1_izeu920 wrote

So then what are you complaining about? I really don't get this post. You know it's a public agency. You know they can't just increase the salaries. So guess what they have to start more intense recruiting efforts.

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goldeneye0 OP t1_izeuyqm wrote

Well, it was the calls by those recruiters that I was surprised about - and I naturally rejected them since I wasn't going to associate myself with working for the MBTA, not with the current reputation of the MBTA.

Nor would I work with those recruiters. Double whammy there.

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Sinister-Mephisto t1_izf0f8w wrote

It’s an engineers market right now, employees are desperate to find talent anywhere and are trying to work with multiple types of recruiters and are paying out the ass for it.

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BasilExposition75 t1_izf2q0a wrote

Don't these recruiters see jobs and just try to match up people to them? Not even sure the MBTA hired "Indian Recruiters"...

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TakenOverByBots t1_izg4zz8 wrote

Not to be a total snob (but okay, maybe) but IT is not engineering.

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lunisce t1_izgbnbz wrote

IT is not engineering, but IT can contain engineering roles. Software engineer, network engineer, systems engineer, etc

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app_priori t1_izfkoj6 wrote

Really? Despite the layoffs that have been happening everywhere recently? I'd say with government issues it's more a matter of pay; their pay scales are smaller and more inflexible and a lot of recently laid-off IT workers would rather take unemployment for a while than to work for half their previous wages.

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smc733 t1_izfrl2f wrote

You’re seeing isolated layoffs in big tech (IIRC around 150k), that’s not IT, and is a drop in the bucket in a job market creating 300k+ jobs per month. That’s like letting a small amount of air out of a balloon.

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app_priori t1_izfs7ky wrote

A trickle that can turn into a flood. Pepsi is laying off people despite doing great business lately too.

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smc733 t1_izfsgik wrote

Can, but right now isn’t. I am a director in IT at a mid to large organization, we can’t find qualified candidates.

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Sinister-Mephisto t1_izft7vr wrote

I'm not at a director level, but I can't tell you how many different guys I've had to interview for positions that put languages on their resumes but didn't know how to write a line of code when I asked them to demonstrate.

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RikiWardOG t1_izftdly wrote

Just out of curiosity what type of positions are you looking for?

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chucktownbtown t1_izg87yo wrote

Pepsi employs over 100k people in the US, and is laying off hundreds. Less than 1% of their headcount.

An enterprise organization has 5-10% turnover monthly anyway.

Pepsi was a click bait headline.

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Sinister-Mephisto t1_izftkr6 wrote

There's a lot of different types of workers in the the tech sector. Somebody who works the help desk, is different from a network engineer, is different from a front end dev, who is also different from a full stack / backend dev, who is different from a sec analyst, who is different from a sysadmin, etc etc.

There is still a huge demand.

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CrimeCoder t1_izfajsw wrote

Maybe if they offered remote work.

Seriously, I would love to work for the MBTA in any capacity. But my desire to never work in an office again overrides that feeling threefold.

I am a senior level IT professional, I'd jump at the opportunity if it ever came available.

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cryospam t1_izfnlda wrote

Even if it resulted in a HUGE pay cut? I interviewed for a senior admin role there last year, and after the recruiter insisted they were paying slightly above market rates, the top of the salary range was 40,000 dollars less than I was already making.

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CrimeCoder t1_izg2kyb wrote

I have a personal policy of only accepting jobs where I know the pay band up front. Whenever recruiters beat around the bush or try to get me on a call before disclosing it I ghost them. I'd immediately nope out of an interview process if the pay deviated even a little under what they were initially proposing.

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cryospam t1_izg53li wrote

He told me that he didn't have the exact range, but that he had placed 2 people already who were already working at similar titled positions. I figured it was worth the swing with that assurance, and in the end I got burned by it.

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app_priori t1_izfkgsw wrote

State/local governments seem to be requiring at least 2 or 3 days a week in the office. But it's understandable - they want to set an example, especially when assessed values for office buildings are dropping and the cities realizes far more property tax revenue from commercial and industrial buildings than residential.

That said I feel like with all the layoffs and crap recently for white collar workers, people's ability to demand remote working options is gradually receding.

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trickylizard t1_izflnbc wrote

Agree, I think employers and employees will gradually end up with a compromise of 2-3 days in the office a week. Already seeing it happen in many tech companies and startups.

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app_priori t1_izfmq40 wrote

It's also an easy way to get people to leave without actually firing them. Not everyone's going to uproot their lives and go back to where their job is.

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wobwobwob42 t1_izf8fk6 wrote

Are they still drug testing?

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PCPirate262 t1_izfceao wrote

I do IT for the DOT, and they do but let you come up positive for weed with no penalties

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dhjsjakansnjsjshs t1_izfe5dz wrote

Wow that's not what I expected to hear

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cryospam t1_izfnsh8 wrote

Even the CIA lets IT people test positive for weed. Apparently those of us who don't suck are statically likely to be potheads.

https://www.marijuanamoment.net/senate-committee-votes-to-let-people-whove-used-marijuana-work-for-cia-nsa-and-other-intelligence-agencies/

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app_priori t1_izfovxv wrote

But you cannot smoke weed again afterwards... if you want to play by government rules.

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cryospam t1_izfq9ry wrote

Give it a few more years, we will be able to.

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app_priori t1_izft3b9 wrote

Good luck with all the boomers who still run this government and think weed is evil.

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Aroon164 t1_izfvplm wrote

If the job is labeled safety sensitive then they drug test.

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StuckinSuFu t1_izf3cki wrote

I did government contract IT out in South Dakota for about two years. Like a lot of contract work - it's higher than usual pay but typically less benefits. Was a fun experience but I'm glad to be working a salaried nongovernmental job these days. Outsourced recruiters are prolific and annoying but I still respond to them all asking about the remote policy then kindly reject when it's hybrid-onsite.

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Anustart15 t1_izggl90 wrote

I don't think you understand the difference between a staffing agency and a recruiter. Recruiters just find applicants for jobs. Staffing agencies are the ones you actually work for as an employee of the agency instead of the company you are doing work for.

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cryospam t1_izfnd8a wrote

That's because they pay way less than market rates. I interviewed for one of their senior admin roles that the recruiter insisted was paying market rates. I'm making slightly below market rates now, and it was 40k less in salary than I already make.

This isn't news, and frankly it doesn't matter which recruiters they hire to fill those roles, they pays shit so they won't get anyone.

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idejmcd t1_izfydre wrote

nobody told me there'd be boasting

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Codspear t1_izg370l wrote

How much are they paying and where can I check the postings?

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imso1cy t1_izi5ylu wrote

I have the certs., degree, and experience and they rejected my resume. With my new position i’m glad they did me a favor.

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mayhapsably t1_izir5sy wrote

What are you even saying here? Recruiters don't pay you, the employer does.

>My career and reputation being sullied

Again, what does the recruiter have to do with this?

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alohadave t1_izkfekb wrote

I've been out of IT since 2009 and I still get emails from recruiters seeing if I'm available. I haven't even updated my LinkedIn in 10 years.

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Sufficient-Opposite3 t1_izfq1m4 wrote

Outsourcing IT roles to India, Eastern Europe, and Asia is a long established practice. I think it's something to get all that stressed about, especially if a company is unable to find resources locally. Please keep in mind these are typically lower level jobs; the rates are lower; outsourcing allows for the flexing up and down of roles as needed, etc. Just because you got called doesn't mean anything at all.

Not a big fail at all. More standard business practice.

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