Submitted by mossadnik t3_y7edoj in Futurology
Imagine the Boston Dynamics Cheetah Robot on the battlefield. No weapons. Just the bot. Get him to correctly identify the enemy and then let him just run full-speed at them until impact, Then go after the next. A 70lb metal box hitting your legs at 30mph is going to take you out of the fight, even if it doesn't kill you. Add spikes and armor...
That's the nightmare future I see.
Ideally killer robots and drones would be used in bot vs. bot jousting to reduce casualties, but I have no doubt that certain countries will use them against civilians or infrastructure. The goal of war is to incapacitate your opponent, not to defeat them like a Pokémon rival.
Congrats to Estonia and the kingdom of the Netherlands taking the charge
Killer robots may reduce combatant casualties, but I do not want to think about the damage to civilians or infrastructure that would come from some warlord or terrorist with a 100% loyal drone army limited in size only by his bank account.
Just weld a couple samurai swords to the front like a triceratops.
Let’s get the THeMIS and Mr HIMARS to meet, wonder what kind of missile babies will be born.
I watched some of the AUSA show. Almost all tanks and land vehicles are going hybrid.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/mossadnik:
Submission Statement:
>“We have deployed four weaponised [unmanned] machines within an operational experiment”, told Lieutenant Colonel Sjoerd Mevissen, commander of the Royal Netherlands Army's Robotics and Autonomous System. “To my knowledge, we have not seen this before in the West…the machines have been handed over for experimental use in an operational unit in a military-relevant environment. These are not simply tests on a training ground. We are under the direct eyes and ears of the Russians, and as such in a semi-operational environment.”
>The machine-gun-toting robots aren’t the first the world has ever seen. Estonia first deployed an unarmed version of THeMIS in Mali in 2019. This Russian MoD confirmed it deployed armed UGVs in Syria in 2018. Iran has also been developing its own UGVs and showed off its Heidair-1 on social media in 2019. Iran’s small beetle-like drone seems designed to roll under tanks and APCs and explode.
>Both Russia’s Uran-9 and Estonia’s THeMIS are bigger and can carry more deadly equipment. The Uran-9 is capable of carrying a 30mm 2A72 automatic cannon and four 9M120-1 Ataka anti-tank guided missiles, which makes it look like a frightening and deadly killer robot. However, early reports indicate that Russia's UGV didn’t work well in Syria and repeatedly lost connection to its controller.
>During the summer, a video of a robot dog with an assault rifle strapped to its back went viral on the internet. Earlier this month, Boston Dynamics promised it wouldn’t weaponize its brand of robot dogs. The video was creepy and Boston Dynamics’ sentiment was aimed at calming down the public, but the truth is that killer ground robots are already here and that the world’s militaries aren’t interested in strapping a gun to the back of a quadruped even if they might have other uses on a near-future battlefield.
>Gun-toting killer ground robots were always going to look like what the Dutch have deployed and what the Russian’s tested in Syria—little tanks bristling with guns and absent humans.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/y7edoj/the_killer_ground_drone_revolution_is_here_the/isu00my/
I just watched terminator so I'm pretty familiar with what we need to do now.
Every day I thank Allah for remaking me into an obsessive Transformers fan in 2019. I’m ready for this decade.
Now imagine these get proliferate and AI starts controlling these. Not so easy to "just pull the plug" now is it?
For sure. Things getting very interesting around the world
I want to believe this is some great feat of engineering and technical design, but it looks like a .50 cal machine gun welded to some tracks.
This is the road to the Faro plague. Are we ever gonna learn anything from video games?!
Obviously it’s different for people with families, but as a single guy I’m just riding the wave in the birth decade of Optimus Prime! (Adam Savage met him recently on YouTube)
The they/THeMIS army is here and conservatives are bricking it.
William Gibson's slamhound from Count Zero.
Cheetah w/ face & gait recognition, dampened near silent actuators, and a 5 lb shaped charge in it's face.
Cavalry is historically countered by spikes and ranged weaponry. But having a robotic melee trophy hanging above the fireplace is brutal.
Nice on Adam Savage. I’m 49 and grew up with Transformers and G I Joes. The guy who voiced Duke in the original series, my son got me his autograph and signed it, From one Duke to another Yo Joe. My nickname is also Duke. Let’s make some Dino Bots.
I mean at this point it looks like we'll just have robot battles
I was born right as G1 faded from consciousness in my country, and by the time Bumblebee came back to my country I had graduated high school. So I’ve got a lot of catching up to do.
Nope one side will have them first and enslave everyone else
I have a feeling emps will be a little more popular when whole armies are a thing
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I'm sure Iran would love them for crowd control.
Real Steel in real life
Exactly. It’s startling how little awareness or concern there is about this in the general public let alone a FUTURE subreddit
Couldn't imagine that I would be the first with the idea... It was one of the first things I thought of when I first saw the Cheetah bot years ago. "Imagine that thing running into a person at full speed. Ouch."
Yeah it's nobody's idea of a good time.
They are too slow to be a difference maker on a large outdoor battlefield like Ukraine but could be useful in clearing dwellings in urban areas. Flying drones are still the most effective robotic soldiers.
Let them swarm through the trenches in Ukraine. It would be pretty effective
Imagine trying to tell a human not to shoot you and they do it anyway.
I meaaaaan, have you ever watched the Black Mirror episode METAL HEAD?
You assume the Russians even bothered with trenches for there infantry
#RULES OF NATURE
I mean it is but I think it’s entirely autonomous meaning it doesn’t need any human to even control it if need be
So let's see how the scorecard looks:
Killer autonomous/remotely controlled robots? Check.
Massive orbital satellite system that can control connected devices from space? Check.
AI evolving at an exponential rate? Check.
SkyNet? Any minute now.
They dug some trenches in the forest outside Chernobyl anyway, somewhat ill-advised.
the two countries we all predicted it would be
Would have to be pretty serious charges, insulation is a thing
Killdozer is going oscar mike. Drop your cocks and grabs your socks people!
Wait you don’t mean what I think you mean do you? Just to clarify you’re talking about boning John Connors mom right?
THE TIME HAS COME TO AN END
I'm curious, Armies have been blowing up tanks for decades now, how are ground drones going to prove superior against tank killers?
Greater maneuverability than a tank? yes? But I can't see them as anything more than a lighter tank that the enemy already has an answer to.
Similar to the T-1 Ground Assault Vehicle in Terminator 3 and Terminator Salvation
Exactly, find Sarah Connor, change the future. Lol no, I just mean the destroy the machines part.
Story tellers need to be taken more seriously. This sort of stuff is clearly a massive net negative for humanity.
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You forget MAD. All weapons pale in comparison to nukes.
it was always only a matter of time, as if no one took James Cameron seriously
Yep. Anyone who fails to transition is effectively sending men out to die pointlessly. (Mature) Drone infantry will out distance them, out manevour them and likely attack at speeds below their ability to react. They have no morale to break, minimal need to stop and much better logistics.
The traditional infantry man will be reduced to some sort of combined drone commander and tech support. The force multiplier is enormous.
Well, at least this things will just kill…they won’t rape, torture and take your gold teeth…
hear me out
start a company that owns a lot of these
charge governments for rent
charge gamers to operate
send it to the moon afghanistan, baby 🇺🇸
….
PROFIT!
Faraday cage has to be thick enough not to melt from the amperage
Emp are basically explosives
None of you have ever explained why this is a "Nightmare" future outside fantasies like terminator.
Robots replace manned vehicles meaning there's overall less people in war.
If we look back at WWI-era armor, it was very rudimentary and unrefined, with the primary goal of providing defense against small arms to the operators. In the future, as these platforms mature we should see designs which account for the threats of heavy weapons, ewar, and guided munitions. Only then, and when budgets allow, will we see the true manifestation of what was previously science fiction on the battlefield.
I just watched that one!!
> Imagine the Boston Dynamics Cheetah Robot on the battlefield. No weapons. Just the bot. Get him to correctly identify the enemy and then let him just run full-speed at them until impact, Then go after the next. A 70lb metal box hitting your legs at 30mph is going to take you out of the fight, even if it doesn't kill you. Add spikes and armor...
That is terrifying
oh yeah? well in the nightmare future I envision, I’ll be a cannibal warlord ruling over a barren fiefdom where mutant survivors scavenge for the bones of those having perished in the BEFORE WARS to then suck them dry of their marrow in the hopes they’re sustained enough that their overgrown flesh sack of an “eye” lives to see another day. but that’s just me.
I suppose, though could this already be done with a vehicle?
Always look on the bright side of death...
These would be effective in urban spaces to clear out buildings, hide on roofs, etc. in open spaces flying drones would be better or if these had long range munitions like missiles and some sort of drone partner to scout so they could accurately fire.
BF2042 might be a shit game, but they sure predicted the future.
Vehicles are much easier to shoot. A nimble medium dog-sized creature moving at 30mph is not an easy target.
What I wonder about is if both sides have equal drones. Does war become reduced to battlebots? Or do the drones start attacking infrastructure essentially targeting the populace at large?
Prefer rat thing but ok
I'm hoping to already be the bones in this scenario
Make it a drivable Battle Cat, in a hundred years or so.
I’m surprised they haven’t compacted the shot spotter system on regular drones we have now to locate enemy fire accurately and coordinate artillery strikes. Imagine a hive in the sky listening to your shots and movement and all of a sudden you have a barrage from kilometers away raining down on you lol
Insect swarming, like locusts gumming up the gears. Bigger isn’t always better.
They’re cheaper and don’t put a human in danger. For the cost of one tank with crew you could have a dozen of these with a wider range of load outs. So you could have a few acting as mobile artillery, some for AA, some carrying arial drones,some acting as tanks, all for the cost of one tank. Kind of like a small modular land version of a carrier group.
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Yes it is but don’t mention that on this sub they will downvote you into oblivion
We've had completely computer controlled Abrams tanks since the mid to late 1990s. They used to install SGI supercomputers into the tanks that were so retrofitted.
Take off and nuke the site from orbit?
Is test of radiation into topsoil with buttcheek.
Buttcheek got warm.
Thankfully this is just a remote control car with a gun. A far cry from an autonomous fighting machine.
No we know what Dilbert has been working on all these years with his Estonian contractors.
This reminds me of the movie Screamers.
Robots will probably never be a threat in that sense... They have extremely delicate components and electronics, and no practical way to make them bulletproof (armor thick enough would be extremely heavy) so military rifles would shred the Boston dynamics one and the metal head even more
Imagine when the billionaires get them, all armed up, and they lay claim to a section of prime public land adjacent to their property for their personal use while you fight it out in court for a decade.
K9 Killer keeping out the riff raff away the whole time.
That’s my life!
You forgot: living skin grown in a lab specifically for the purpose of being fitted over prosthetics (or robotics)? Check.
That's exactly what they want
Or rocket propelled chainsaws
The Soviets were using Teletanks a few years before then, in their war with Finland:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletank
Presumably because The White Death kept killing the gunners by sending bullets down their little tanks’ gun barrels.
There are probably quite a few other examples of remote controlled ground weapons like this.
Still, these things seem pretty vulnerable.
reminds me of Dog from HL2
You should read Snowcrash. That description is of the dog thing as the books call it.
In this context, it’s even more crazy that a lot of Americans believe they need the right to own an assault rifle in case they need to rise up against the Government. An insurgency wouldn’t stand a chance.
Couldn’t I just kill these with relatively small EMPs set off at the right time? I believe small EMPs are pretty easy to build.
Why would you think that? They have 'delicate' components because it doesn't make sense and is not safe to do research on something like an autonomous tank with deadly weapons. They also are focusing on actually getting a baseline robot working before a robotic war machine. You dont start with the robotic war machine first. You can take what you learn on small scales and apply it to larger robots that can carry armor, or just retrofit a tank to be autonomous.
Unless you simultaneously deploy swarms of drone swarms that destroy all your enemies nukes before the robot guns go in.
Does it bother anyone else that the system abbreviation has a lowercase “e” when there is no word that begins with E. It should be THyMIS.
Thats not possible. No way to stop every nuke, our enemies don't even know where all our nukes are
The doggo robo can only lasts 30 mins. At full speed, maybe 10 mins, so I wouldn't worry about killer robo doggo, yet.
Artificial Intelligence.
Those terminator fantasies are not as far away as you think.
Api
10 minutes is enough time to cover 3 miles. That's enough time to turn it on a mile away from the enemy, have it run over to them, take out several soldiers and run back. And that's just today's tech. More batteries just adds more weight which means more damage.
Them_Is some real future bad ass fuckery machines..Amiright?
I’ve always thought this was an interesting concept. It’s not difficult to imagine a future where wars are waged with tech, either remotely controlled or AI “bots”, and the idea of human soldiers would be antiquated as bringing a knight on a horse to a modern battlefield. They would just be shredded like insects. So much would change and it’s difficult to foresee how it would all play out but warfare would be much more covert and technology driven.
Can you buy stock in this company? Cuz it about to boom 💥
We're gonna go from dystopian capalist society to whole ass grimdark real quick.
Heh, imagine if Jurassic World were real...
Anyone that's seen the Metalhead episode of Black Mirror knows where this is going...
This article instantly gave me flashbacks to a mid/late 90s game called Gunmetal. It was about tank drones that you could customize. Only difference was it was in a world run by rival corporations instead of countries. Had a dope soundtrack and concept.
Edit: It was also kind of Matrix like because your character lived in a vr pod and controlled the drone.
#anyone know where the bathroom is?
Hold on, who said anything about autonomous tanks? This thread started with the idea that the Boston dynamic type robot would just charge you down easily. And then the metal head dog. I'm saying those formats are not viable, not for now anyway.
They might rape your dead body for biofuel though
What about the new COVID virus they made in a Boston lab?
Infantry dig trenches themselves, if your not doing anything your always digging
That has an absolutely horrific consequence for power. You dont need the masses to retain your military anymore
Unless those controlling them make them do it
Identifying friend/foe will be exceptionally difficult. I was in the infantry, shit ain’t easy. And we already are aware of some exceptionally simple and economic ways to spoof image recognition software…so tasking out this problem to computers just adds me problems.
If we are talking about autonomous killer drones. That would work. If it’s total war and we’re sweeping a city. Sure. Fuck it. Send the robot instead of a human. But there will always be a need for precise and professional operators on the ground.
The Yanks already have that
“To my knowledge, we have not seen this before in the West…[...]" But we have seen it in the East (specificially made by Iran to blow up ukranian civilian buildings via target information from Russia. It is called a suicide drone (this one just has sustained offensive Capabilities)
It's happening
Ok, I see now. The discussion is limited to robots that walk on 4 legs and tracks are not allowed. In that case, you could just scale up the 4 legged thing to allow enough power to carry armor. There are some companies with mech like robots large and powerful enough to carry the wieght. Electronics have been everywhere from underwater to outerspace so I don't think fragility is the issue, we know how to protect them.
It also knows crazy
That is possible.
I was quite specifically answering the whole. "Boston dynamics" robot running you over like you can't shoot full metal jackets into it and completely obliterate their electronic insides from a distance. The 4 legged thing from black mirror is even smaller in size so even less armor. That's all, not saying autonomous fighting vehicles as a whole are impossible, just not Terminator now
Ok, I'm an idiot, lol.
And there it is..what an awful day to have a wild imagination
The whole point of self-propelled artillery is to fire off X rounds in a short time and vacate the premises before you could possibly counter-battery..
It's fine, I used the term robot too widely
Yeah I think the time of people on the battle field (except as victims) has a time limit. In fact I think the end might be closer than most imagine. The first time we see a battle somewhere with regular forces vs a combined arms, semi-autonomous force, the slaughter will have militaries around the world scrambling like mad to transition.
These days a computer can scan a battlefield across multiple spectra, identify targets, and engage them, all before a human would blink. One of the least believable but incredibly common sci-fi tropes is people winning against highly developed machines. There is just no way if the weaponry available to each is otherwise equal.
Author mistakes drones and robots for the same thing.
I am against military robots, they are obvious disasters waiting to happen.
Drones are under a pilot’s control. The potential concerns about drones are dwarfed by the risks presented by robots which act autonomously.
In Gibson's Count Zero didn't the hero's brother have "augmented guard dogs" that were grafted to mechanical hoods?
Now imagine an EMP grenade.
I have not read that book by Gibson, him and Stephenson always seem to have similar thoughts though. It is funny in both of their essay books they have an essay about their experiences with the other one.
You say what, the same military (Netherlands) with an article about their spot robot, lol. Only some programming left to do and add some "modifications" to the design!
https://magazines.defensie.nl/defensiekrant/2021/29/01_robothond-spot_29
Besides, robots were not uncommon before. The bomb disposal unit also always had various robots, their special forces use things like throw bots as well. And of course drones. From those large reaper drones, to small Loki drones to clear houses and the Black Hornet mini drones and anything inbetween.
On top of all that, besides this THeMis tracked UGV (unmanned ground vehicle), they are also working with the Rheinmetall Mission Master SP, which is a wheeled UGV that can also be armed.
https://magazines.defensie.nl/defensiekrant/2020/45/03_mission-master_45
Blue Force Tracking. Anything else: Spot.KILL
I REALLY have to imagine that.
Do I have to crosspost everything to cyberpunk today?
>Dutchies do not allow autonomous weaponized robots
yet
Sooner or later, they will be deployed in American city.
How are these robots expected to determine friendly vs hostile target?
No one in the world should…
Was this the plot to the movie Toyswith Robin Williams?
So far.. I'm sure you mean the worst is still to be developed
"Always" is a very strong word. Do you think humans would be necessary on the battlefield even in a million years of advanced tech? What about 1000? Shit, look where we were 100 years ago to now, so you think humans on the battlefield even have 100 years?
Even if this tech isn't reliable right now, I find it hard to believe it won't outpace the average soldier in just a couple decades, let alone 30 to 40 more years after that
Good! Democracies need to keep pace on this unavoidable arms race. Sad but true.
Okay sure yea. Millions of years. I’d like to think humans will entirely become obsolete.
A couple of decades I promise a well trained soldier will still have a place on the battlefield. I’m sure there are tons of things this tech already surpasses human soldiers now. But the job you perform as an infantryman is inherently chaotic. It is one of the most chaotic situations you can find yourself in. Computer programs rely on reliable patterns and generalized input. And yes I acknowledge the whole point of AGI is to expand that exact “bandwidth” of acceptable input when a machine performs problem solving/decision making. But EVEN then we start to step into some other issues like mobility. The human body can do A LOT. Swim. Dive. Jump out a plane. Climb rubble. Crawl. All sorts of things. Battlefield’s are not flat terrain. Yes. Tanks are treaded. This robot is treaded. There will be applications. But when it comes down to it someone’s gotta clear that building, trench, tunnel, or bunker, it’ll be booby trapped to all hell and full of obstacles along the way. The human’s body + will power is unstoppable, while machines can be tricked/cheesed. You also have to consider that a fully autonomous/robotic military brings new problems. Modern military’s are slowly learning the importance of EW/electronic warfare. Something as simple as bringing your cell phone on deployment and opening it without being on airplane mode will give away your position + anyone with you to pretty much anyone. These machines in the original post are not autonomous. They are manned remotely. This means they are producing a massive electronic signal that the enemy can use to pinpoint their movement. With all the missile/artillery/fixed wing/rotary wing assets available to the world (even isis has helicopters and missiles) a location is all you need. Point being: given how precise weapons have become: stay undetected is easily the most important umbrella skill an infantryman can have. Don’t start a fire, even if you’re cold, don’t leave ANY trash behind when camping out and moving around in country, sleep and stash equipment outside of aerial/satellite/drone observation under tarps or trees etc. Autonomous or unmanned robot soldiers will certainly not be able to hide their position more effectively than a human for a long long time. And as we discussed once you’re position is known the enemy has a buffet of options to choose how they are going to blow you the guck up with ease and precision.
I will say though, I think kill drones will be used and highly effective. When we need to clear out a city that is hot with minimal civilians. A situation like Fallujah where we airdropped pamphlets saying we were going to storm the city and to GTFO if you were a civilian. We do that shit. We send in thousands of weaponized drones (think of a Suicide drone that flies) to just go in and kill anything that moves. That would be much more effective than attempting to shell a city (never works to completion, the human spirit is unrelenting and people will just hide in the rubble like roaches -> this is were methodical kill drones could be useful)
In short. AI “soldiers” unlikely in our lifetime to supersede normal troops. AI kill bots definitely have a seat at the table though. Given that they are employed in situations with lax ROE’s (basically none). I imagine killer drone swarm tech is probably already in R&D/early production.
Edit: I rambled on a lot
Or the opposite. Enables uprising from resourceful commoners. Eat the ritch.
mossadnik OP t1_isu00my wrote
Submission Statement:
>“We have deployed four weaponised [unmanned] machines within an operational experiment”, told Lieutenant Colonel Sjoerd Mevissen, commander of the Royal Netherlands Army's Robotics and Autonomous System. “To my knowledge, we have not seen this before in the West…the machines have been handed over for experimental use in an operational unit in a military-relevant environment. These are not simply tests on a training ground. We are under the direct eyes and ears of the Russians, and as such in a semi-operational environment.”
>The machine-gun-toting robots aren’t the first the world has ever seen. Estonia first deployed an unarmed version of THeMIS in Mali in 2019. This Russian MoD confirmed it deployed armed UGVs in Syria in 2018. Iran has also been developing its own UGVs and showed off its Heidair-1 on social media in 2019. Iran’s small beetle-like drone seems designed to roll under tanks and APCs and explode.
>Both Russia’s Uran-9 and Estonia’s THeMIS are bigger and can carry more deadly equipment. The Uran-9 is capable of carrying a 30mm 2A72 automatic cannon and four 9M120-1 Ataka anti-tank guided missiles, which makes it look like a frightening and deadly killer robot. However, early reports indicate that Russia's UGV didn’t work well in Syria and repeatedly lost connection to its controller.
>During the summer, a video of a robot dog with an assault rifle strapped to its back went viral on the internet. Earlier this month, Boston Dynamics promised it wouldn’t weaponize its brand of robot dogs. The video was creepy and Boston Dynamics’ sentiment was aimed at calming down the public, but the truth is that killer ground robots are already here and that the world’s militaries aren’t interested in strapping a gun to the back of a quadruped even if they might have other uses on a near-future battlefield.
>Gun-toting killer ground robots were always going to look like what the Dutch have deployed and what the Russian’s tested in Syria—little tanks bristling with guns and absent humans.