Submitted by PoliticiansAlwaysLie t3_zs3eer in worldnews
mlc885 t1_j162r74 wrote
The idea of an ethnic state was already kinda tenuous, Netanyahu heading an insane right wing all male government seems entirely stupid. Netanyahu cares more about Netanyahu than he cares about Israel. What a joke.
grapehelium t1_j17kzdh wrote
So, I am not sure about the sex of cabinet personnel, and I will not relate to that issue, except to say that the religious parties do not include women (mistakenly in my opinion), and so their inclusion in the government will already skew things to the male side. (I also do NOT agree with giving someone a position just because they are a woman, Arab, white, etc... Positions should be filled based on qualifications, not physical/genetic characteristics). Also keep in mind, that it is the party members that determine who will represent their party in the knesset, not the general public. In Israel you vote for a party, likud, meretz, shas, etc.... NOT an individual. So if Joe Israeli likes likud's position on A,B,C issues, he votes for them, but he has no say (assuming he is not a likud member) in how many women likud has on their list, or their position on the list. So the problem of the amount of women is more a function of the party members, than the voting public.
I do think Bibi does what is good for Bibi, and in this situation, he needs people that will help him overcome his legal issues. It so happens, that those people are his normal go-to parties to form a government.
About the same number of Israelis voted for left leaning or right leaning parties as the last few rounds of elections. However due to the Israeli political math, There is a minimun percentage of total valid votes a party must receive. In the distribution of the votes some parties do better than others, but those that do not meet the thresshold are not allocated seats in the knesset. Those votes are then not counted. This resulted in what looks like an overwhelming win for the Right - which while true politically, is not as true mathematically. (Other countries are similarly confounded by their systems, for example, in Canada, Trudea is the elected prime minister, although I believe most people voted for his opponent, i.e. he lost the popular vote, but due to the way districts are drawn, his party won enough votes to win the election.)
If Israelis feel that this government is not good for them, not functional, doesn't represent their values, whatever, there are always elections in another few years. That is part of the beauty of a democratic system. There is always an opportunity to vote in someone else. (or even to get involved and make a more personal difference)
acuet t1_j16ipmi wrote
A Joke funded by the American people. But I agree, just messed up that this is even happening. Things will only get worse and be used by GOP in America to gain power again.
tomi832 t1_j16emki wrote
First of all - it's not all male.
Secondly - but it is sometimes necessary. For example, right here - the Jews were persecuted for thousands of years. Having a safe haven will only help, because if Israel would have existed just a few years beforehand - it wouldn't have been 6 million dead. Hitler asked around who wanted to have some Jewish refugees, yet no one said yes...just proves that the Jews do need a Jewish state.
Thirdly - like, you do understand that this is exactly what the majority wanted - right? It's not like he he promised he won't do that - they all went into the elections with this coalition in mind. Bibi a bit less because he has a habit of taking one or two left parties into his coalition, but the general public? They knew that this coalition would form and is exactly what the majority of Israel wanted.
So I don't get it how it's caring about himself and not about what Israel wants.
Fhujeth t1_j16y8xh wrote
He's making us Jews look like Theocratic asswipes and it's not just affecting Israelis, it's hurting us American Jews who don't have stakes in retaking or even living in our homeland.
He's hurting the Jewish community, him and all the other radical Zionists.
magicaldingus t1_j177sx6 wrote
While I understand where you're coming from you have to understand the political climate and social dynamics in Israel. Most voting Israelis have lived through concessions and half-measures to appease the rest of the world who are largely sympathetic to the Palestinians. All they've gotten in return are rocket attacks, suicide bombings, and other acts of terrorism. Meanwhile - the only things that have actually kept Israelis safe are more hardline measures, like the security wall and the Gaza blockade (which followed the concession of complete withdrawal of Gaza - the precursor to the rocket attacks). Israelis are sick and tired of caring what the outside world thinks - including American Jews. Their top priority is the self determination and security of Jews in Israel, which was the whole point of the country.
As a diaspora Jew - I can see where you're coming from, and I definitely share your feelings. It's difficult to watch the country you're supposed to identify with drift so far from the political ideals you hold close as a North American. But Israel's neighbours want them destroyed. It's hard to reach across the aisle when your hand is likely to get cut off doing so - which has been the case countless times in the recent past.
I also want to say that as a Jew it's important to remember that if you feel it's hard to be Jewish in America as a direct result of Israel's actions, then you blame should not be directed at Israel, but rather anti-semites who don't understand this dynamic and use "Anti-Zionism" as a flimsy cover to assert their antisemetic double standards on you and make you feel bad for being Jewish. Why should you be made to feel guilty about being a Jew? You didn't vote in the Israeli election. And also take a moment to understand that if you think everyone hates you because you're Jewish and American, try to imagine what it would be like as an Israeli and have countries much more powerful and populated than yours as your neighbours who would like to see you wiped off the map (I'm mainly referring to Iran). Now is the time to be proud to be Jewish. Not embarrassed or guilt-ridden.
tomi832 t1_j17p5mu wrote
People like to downvote what they don't understand.
magicaldingus t1_j17tdap wrote
Eh, if I was interested in getting upvotes I wouldn't post anything remotely pro-israel on r/worldnews. It will always be an echo-chamber. I feel like my job is just to try to add nuance to the discussion because it feels like a bunch of young people pigeonholing themselves into a super homogeneous worldview. Even if they consider for a second what I'm writing then I feel I've done my job.
tomi832 t1_j1ic1y5 wrote
It's basically the same here...
A friend of mine asked why I argue at length on the internet, since people usually don't change their opinions by arguing - it's a dead end.
I told him that while I do hope it will drop some sense into the other person, it's actually not really for him but much more for the third-party, that watches and reads.
Fhujeth t1_j182hak wrote
Okay, I am aware of these factors but unfortunately, the actions of Israeli government are affecting us terribly. It just gives more fuel to antisemites, and even "woke" people who are supposed to be on the side of minorities.
It's literally screwing us. Israel should exist but it needs to stop making a clown of the Jewish people. Hell, a good chunk of Americans, even not antisemitic ones, think Jew and Israeli are interchangeable terms and the same thing.
We were hated bad before but this is the worst I've seen it in my lifetime and there is literally nothing we can do, and people will keep turning to Israel as a bad place.
I can't even comfortably tell people I am Jewish. People are taught antisemitic world view in University. Blame the Jewish Puppet Master stuff, watch out! They'll use the Holocaust card as justification for their actions!
And the people are not willing to realize we are just people too.
This is my own opinion, I'm not much a fan of NATO satellite states that will inevitably scapegoat my people, either.
magicaldingus t1_j18m108 wrote
The fact that you can't comfortably tell people you're Jewish is not Israel's fault. It's anti-semites' fault.
Fhujeth t1_j18orxk wrote
In that case, all non Jews are antisemites that I have met. They've all instantly treated me different, probed me with questions (mostly on Israel), and excluded me from holiday stuff. But now the actions of Israel is making it way, way worse.
Yes, firstly it is antisemites fault, but the Israeli gov being so radical is salt in the wound.
I think we need a place like Israel, I'm not against that. But talking about it like it getting more and more conservative and theocratic isn't cool. These actions are affecting us outside of Israel and feeding antisemites that are too dumb to realize an American Jew is not always a Zionist.
These are my opinions. You do not need to listen or agree, but I'm going to be hard pressed to see otherwise.
I know that Israel is just defending it's self, but it feels very bad with how it chooses to defend it's self.
Of course Arabs should also reform stuff and aide the Palestinians and won't.
Sorry I'm not receptive entirely to what you're saying. I see your point but I don't feel like you see mine, so i have very little left to say.
magicaldingus t1_j18v084 wrote
>In that case, all non Jews are antisemites that I have met. They've all instantly treated me different, probed me with questions (mostly on Israel), and excluded me from holiday stuff. But now the actions of Israel is making it way, way worse. >Yes, firstly it is antisemites fault, but the Israeli gov being so radical is salt in the wound.
Yes, it does sound like they all exhibit antisemetic behaviour, if that's the case. But, if a bunch of bullies pick on you because you're friends with a nerd, do you get upset at your friend for doing things that make the bullies want to pick on him and you (maybe he picks his nose or wears thick glasses)?
>I think we need a place like Israel, I'm not against that. But talking about it like it getting more and more conservative and theocratic isn't cool. These actions are affecting us outside of Israel and feeding antisemites that are too dumb to realize an American Jew is not always a Zionist.
And I said I completely understand, and feel the same way. I also feel increasingly disenfranchised by Israel's political trajectory. That said I recognize I'm not exactly meant to be completely enfranchised by their decisions because I'm not an Israeli citizen. I just won't get onboard with the "feeding anti-semites" crap. Their aim is to sew division. Why let them win? Also - most Jews (including you, apparently) ARE Zionists. A zionist is just someone who thinks Israel should exist. Again, don't let anti-semites poison the well for you here. A zionist is not someone who supports all of Israel's actions no matter what - in fact, imo that would be very un-zionist since I believe that leveling critique of one's country is an inherently patriotic act.
>These are my opinions. You do not need to listen or agree, but I'm going to be hard pressed to see otherwise.
I am listening, and I do agree with some of them.
>I know that Israel is just defending it's self, but it feels very bad with how it chooses to defend it's self.
I completely agree. I try to remind myself that sometimes pragmatism and urgency colours their situation in a way that a Canadian like me can't fully appreciate. I think it's insane that this Kahanist bullshit is taking footholds in the Knesset, but I can at least understand why it's happening. And without understanding, you can't really address the root issues. If you don't seek to understand, you just end up being inflammatory.
>Of course Arabs should also reform stuff and aide the Palestinians and won't. > >Sorry I'm not receptive entirely to what you're saying. I see your point but I don't feel like you see mine, so i have very little left to say.
I think I do see your point.
Fhujeth t1_j18wlgo wrote
Thank you. And no, I wouldn't get directly mad at my friend but I would carefully try to explain why a behaviour is leading to him getting bullied and therefore affecting me as well. I wouldn't stop being their friend but I would say stuff like, "girls really don't like it when you info dump about Pokemon on them. Let's go find Pokemon fans we can talk to instead."
Like, I study history for fun, which has lead to me to already some strange feelings about WHY UK/US etc gave us foothold back in Israel. I doubt they cared about us truly wanting to go home. They have ulterior motives, always do. If they cared, the US at least wouldn't have been so Antisemitic just a few years prior to Israel coming to be.
I think Zionist has since had the definition ruined, since it already sounds so militant. I'm also not for a Theocracy, just the safety net that Israel offers to Jews from persecution. Yet while we seek safety there, it feels hypocritical.
Like we know Palestinians did this to themselves too. They're not innocent victims of Israeli government only. They are victims of their grandparents starting the wars to destroy Israel.
But that doesn't excuse Israel from being so alt right that it's doing what it's doing.
I'm glad we are on the same page then. I'm sick of all the misconstrued stuff, but mostly the hate. I e never felt safe to be Jewish, and now it's worse than ever... I'm scared and mad and powerless to do anything about it.
magicaldingus t1_j18yfcm wrote
>Thank you. And no, I wouldn't get directly mad at my friend but I would carefully try to explain why a behaviour is leading to him getting bullied and therefore affecting me as well. I wouldn't stop being their friend but I would say stuff like, "girls really don't like it when you info dump about Pokemon on them. Let's go find Pokemon fans we can talk to instead."
I completely agree, and this is what I'm suggesting.
>Like, I study history for fun, which has lead to me to already some strange feelings about WHY UK/US etc gave us foothold back in Israel. I doubt they cared about us truly wanting to go home. They have ulterior motives, always do. If they cared, the US at least wouldn't have been so Antisemitic just a few years prior to Israel coming to be.
Also completely agree. At the end of the day, Israel was born of pragmatism. Countries with different interests can share similar goals and this is an example. I also think that antisemetism is part and parcel of why they supported Israel in the early years.
>I think Zionist has since had the definition ruined, since it already sounds so militant. I'm also not for a Theocracy, just the safety net that Israel offers to Jews from persecution. Yet while we seek safety there, it feels hypocritical.
The definition has never changed. Like I said, you can thank anti-semites for poisoning the well here and muddying the connotations. The aims of their redefinition of the word is to make you feel bad for believing in the self-determination of your people. These are people who's lives would be much more convenient if you didn't exist, and would love for you to just assimilate in to American culture, or die because you live in Israel.
>Like we know Palestinians did this to themselves too. They're not innocent victims of Israeli government only. They are victims of their grandparents starting the wars to destroy Israel.
Agree.
>But that doesn't excuse Israel from being so alt right that it's doing what it's doing.
Also agree.
>I'm glad we are on the same page then. I'm sick of all the misconstrued stuff, but mostly the hate. I e never felt safe to be Jewish, and now it's worse than ever... I'm scared and mad and powerless to do anything about it.
I encourage you to stick out your chest and be Jewish, despite all the hate you feel. After all - being Jewish is not supposed to be easy, it's always been an active choice. As someone who studies history, I'm sure you can appreciate this.
Fhujeth t1_j1907q0 wrote
Thank you for hearing me out and I'll keep these things in mind.
I didn't choose to be Jewish but to antisemites that doesn't matter.
magicaldingus t1_j1939f5 wrote
You choose to be Jewish every time you call yourself Jewish
Fhujeth t1_j193qah wrote
Historically it didn't tend to work that way. I'm ethnically Jewish, and even if I touted Nazi rhetoric, I'd just be a crypto Jew...
OneShartMan t1_j1crevu wrote
No mate, he’s not hurting you. Antisemitism has existed before him and will exist after him.
Fhujeth t1_j1d76qp wrote
The point I was making went over your head. Of course it has existed for thousands of years but in this new world of social/mass media the actions Israeli government has done has amplified what has already been around.
In the last few years it's gotten so insanely bad and we have Trump to blame, along with the far right in Israel's actions causing a very bad pushback from the rest of the world. Of course other countries are doing worse things but we are already hyper focussed on, so we need to be upstanding, not hypocritical. The rest of the world wouldn't be as (obviously they'd still be antisemites) quick to jump us if it wasn't for some of the choices Israel is making.
Again, that's my stance on it.
OneShartMan t1_j1hbxhy wrote
The point I was making went over your head. We don’t give a shit what people around the world think of us, and we rather be hated and safe than loved and hurt. Just look at Ukraine. Don’t take this as an insult, but what you probably started reading about this topic online in the last few years, so that’s why you think it’s changed somehow. No, its been like this for decades and the only thing that changed is your exposure to it.
Fhujeth t1_j1hj7so wrote
I've felt unsafe for decades, it feels far worse now. We can agree to disagree. Otherwise, I've got nothing else to say
Russia never loved Ukraine?? Where does this come from. Maybe they did in desperation for a brief moment in the 19th century when Pan-Slavism was at a all time high and Ukraine had bad vibes with Poland. That's more of a survival than something else
OneShartMan t1_j1hzbqv wrote
When I mentioned Ukraine it was meant to show what happens when a country depends on other countries for its security. They might be winning, but they are suffering enormous losses and damages. We can’t afford those kinds of losses, and we can’t beg the entire world for help like Zelenskyy does. That’s why we will never compromise our security because of the world opinion on us. And I get what you’re saying, but that has nothing to do with Bibi or our government. It feels like this because of exposure, not only yours. And blaming us for you feeling unsafe, is missing the entire point of why we live in Israel and fight for it every single day.
Bottom line is, Jews will never feel safe, and blaming other jews for it is kind of ironic.
Fhujeth t1_j1j3osj wrote
I'm just blaming the extremist, anti-muslim right wing people who see the Palestinians as crap. Not all Jews, not all Israelis, just the way the government has been going.
Pretty sure the help Ukraine got from Russia when "Russia did help" was at the trade off of being a buffer state and labour state with most exports going back to Moscow, along with being stripped of their language and culture. I don't see how the two correlate. Don't worry, there ARE many American Christians who do support Israel for their weird religious beliefs abd would opt to protect it.
Nothing wrong with protecting yourself, everything wrong when you start to treat others the way we were treated. That's where it looks bad.
But like I said, I also blame Trump and groups that keep trying to attack Israel. My feelings are complicated on the subject. I don't blame average people who are just living their lives.
mlc885 t1_j177upk wrote
Sorry, I wasn't informed and went off what CNN said. Who in Netanyahu's new cabinet is not male?
3dio t1_j17z0ss wrote
Government isn't formed yet but will most likely have a minority of women since coalition is made mostly of religious parties. This is looking to be the most Conservative government in Israeli history headed by the "liberal" right-wing Netanyahu
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