Submitted by Picture-unrelated t3_yhu183 in worldnews
Comments
No-Ask7043 t1_iuft7q3 wrote
It’s a bit more complicated because it’s a division of the Iranian military, and labeling them all (and previous members) as terrorists doesn’t allow for the necessary diplomatic outcome most countries (especially western) would prefer to direct confrontation with Iran- almost no one wants that. Canada recently imposed targeted blacklisting of the ING leadership (and more) which seems more effective in the big picture (if the big picture is Iranian regime change, which is the only pragmatic outcome, and what most of the West and their allies want). The last thing you want to do here is isolate or radicalize low level conscripts if the goal is regime change through a domestic uprising (which is currently the best hope). Real Polik, and supporting the citizens against their authoritarian theocratic government is a million times preferable to direct confrontation with the Iranian regime. War with Iran will make the Iraq war look like a walk in the park. https://www.iranintl.com/en/202210075689
MadDjinn t1_iufz6pr wrote
Slightly more complicated is that Canada has listed the IRGC-Qods force as terrorists for years.
It’s actually odd that the rest isn’t considered a terrorist organization, given Hezbollah (in Lebanons government) is listed as such.
Distinguishing the IRGC from the regular military, and the President/government from the Clerics, is a solid path forward to define the problems in that country.
Culverin t1_iuh1tyi wrote
What's your take that Canada should be doing? I can't do much to shape the world,
But I would be happy to give my MP an earful if you point me in the right direction.
Seriksy t1_iuhf0tc wrote
The US can just activate the Stuxnet and shut down the Iranian infrastructure. They probably have it lying there dormant as they did before they wanted to test it out some years ago.
Double_Ad_2824 t1_iuhtiny wrote
The same infrastructure that's required for the protests? That seems counter intuitive, especially since the Iranian leadership will probably claim responsibility and name it a consequence/punishment.
MelaatsenVerplaatser t1_iuh5npi wrote
Well so has the EU and US.
As they say, don't throw rocks when you livee in glass houses.
C_Madison t1_iuiv9y8 wrote
Iran is free to designate some of our institutions as terrorists if they want. Given the international influence of Iran compared to EU/US ... yeah, I don't think cares much.
IdiotOutside t1_iuh6f57 wrote
US runs Taliban through ISI through Haqqani Netwlrk. Corrected for you.
SympathyOver1244 t1_iugfu80 wrote
The same Haqqani network funded by U.S?
Declare U.S a terrorist state while you're at it...
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WexfordHo t1_iugggea wrote
Times change, the Haqqani network was an ally against the Soviets, and then they turned to terrorism. Now they aren’t US funded, they’re Pakistani funded and led. Times change, but I suppose you just want to play a game of whataboutism for… reasons.
helix_ice t1_iugw4r0 wrote
The HN never changed their tactics, the only thing that changed is who backed them.
Their classification going from freedom fighters to terrorists is purely a political issue.
WexfordHo t1_iui73zl wrote
If you say so, but I think the difference between fighting off a foreign invader on your own land, and attacking civilians a world away really is pretty different. If you feel otherwise I’d love to hear how you think that is.
helix_ice t1_iuinap1 wrote
It's a matter of both political interests, and perception.
The first leads to the second. Let's say 9/11 occurred in China, and the Chinese invaded Afghanistan and occupied it for 20 years, would the west be sympathetic to China? Maybe in the beginning, but considering the increased tensions between the west anf China, I bet we could have seen US intelligence funding those same groups that the US itself fought against in Afghanistan.
WexfordHo t1_iuing1k wrote
The terrorism in question when talking about Afghanistan isn’t anything they did after the US invasion, it’s about harboring OBL and AQ.
MelaatsenVerplaatser t1_iuh5shv wrote
Do you believe your own propaganda?
"Then turned to terrorism" lmao.
Why did you think we funded them? To do terrorism against the soviets.
Edit: lol another coward replying with lies and then blocking so i cannot respond.
Pathetic.
WexfordHo t1_iui70g3 wrote
The Soviets invaded Afghanistan, and the Afghanis fought them on their own land. You think that’s the same as harboring AQ and providing them a base to plan and launch attacks on the US and EU?
hardtobeuniqueuser t1_iuh9qyl wrote
> then they turned to terrorism
because what they were doing before totally wasn't terrorism, because the right* people were happy they did it
WexfordHo t1_iui6syn wrote
Do you really not understand the difference between attacking people invading your country, and harboring the people and training camps for those who would later reach out across continents and an ocean to attack another country that they weren’t at war with?
REALLY? That’s what you’re going for?
BandsAndCommas t1_iuhvdhu wrote
lol this comment is such bullshit, US didn’t care until their purpose was over
SympathyOver1244 t1_iugpgbn wrote
U.S have an old & boring tactic to throw its allies under the bus whenever it suits their agenda...
This is evident in the case of Pakistan, Saudi Arabia quite recently, and even Iraq + Saddam Hussein...
[deleted] t1_iuh5t6a wrote
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HerYams t1_iuggf4z wrote
Ssshhh only the CIA is allowed to fund terrorists at will.
/s
Confident_Fly1612 t1_iuggwut wrote
Europe has a history of turning two blind eyes to Islamic terrorists.
niehle t1_iugos6e wrote
We have that in common with the US…
Confident_Fly1612 t1_iugtkes wrote
Which examples are you thinking of?
niehle t1_iugvp5w wrote
Pakistan and Saudi-Arabia.
hardtobeuniqueuser t1_iuh9uak wrote
how blind can your eyes be when you're training someone to do exactly what you pretend you don't want to see?
Confident_Fly1612 t1_iuhjxqx wrote
I don’t understand what you’re insinuating.
__The__Anomaly__ t1_iufp8e5 wrote
Yes, it's long overdue. But better late than never.
regular_reddit-user t1_iuhok5k wrote
Are the revolutionary guards the ones that are already in power or the ones that are protesting for more freedom right now?
omega3111 t1_iui3kug wrote
The IRGC protect the current government since 1979. They have been designated a terrorist organization by the US already. Europe is late to the party.
regular_reddit-user t1_iui87dq wrote
Ah that makes sense. Can't say I disagree with the assessment of my country's minister for foreign affairs
omega3111 t1_iujofcp wrote
The only criticism over this move is that it was made decades too late.
mazdayan t1_iufs517 wrote
Please kindly do. About 43 years too late
topofthecc t1_iufu1sr wrote
What would be the effects of this if they end up going through with it?
NestroyAM t1_iuh1lci wrote
Other than it having implications on international travelling for members of the guard, the main purpose usually is to deter national or private enterprises (like weapon manufacturers) from doing business with the group designated as terrorists (as charges of sponsoring a terrorist group could result in it).
Not an expert, but that’s one of the key aspects why Ukraine wants Russia designated as a terrorist state (I am sure it has other legal ramification beyond that).
[deleted] t1_iuk5dgl wrote
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Khryss1988 t1_iufp4dz wrote
Then do the kremlin!
Splatter_1 t1_iufr8xi wrote
Its coming I believe.
axelthegreat t1_iuh3rxw wrote
if they were honest w themselves they’d also classify the american military as that too.
the term terrorist is only ever applied to groups threaten western hegemony.
DonDove t1_iuhhqv3 wrote
They did go to Kosovo's aid over Serbia back in the 90s
axelthegreat t1_iuiy20b wrote
and during that same conflict they and NATO bombed civilians and refugees
DonDove t1_iuiy472 wrote
Fun!
Ok_Yogurtcloset8915 t1_iug8zhb wrote
I don't want this to be construed as support for Iran in any way, but isn't this a pretty severe contortion of the definition of terrorist? they're a branch of the government, the actions they take against the people don't really count as terrorism when they already have power.
MonHedAna t1_iugo48d wrote
They have a long history of literally training terrorists.
Ok_Yogurtcloset8915 t1_iuguihb wrote
so they're not terrorists then? they train them... if everyone who supported terrorists was also classified as a terrorist then you'd have to call the CIA and MI6 terrorists too for supporting the mujahideen in Afghanistan. it's too broad of a brush.
tabernumse t1_iuh233b wrote
Exactly. The U.S. literally trained Osama Bin Laden and basically created the taliban lol
Ok_Yogurtcloset8915 t1_iuh3y3h wrote
i actually think you could make pretty solid cases for many intelligence agencies being terrorists, I just don't think that supporting terrorist groups is the reason why
EqualContact t1_iui6723 wrote
The US never trained OBL, and the Taliban didn’t exist until the US stopped funding the mujahideen. Some future members of the Taliban received support from Pakistani ISI through US assistance, but the US did not directly fund anyone in Afghanistan during that period.
MonHedAna t1_iujqaqk wrote
The US never trained Osama and other groups to target and kill civilians. The goal was to kill the Soviets, who were invading Afghanistan at the time. If you don’t see, that is different than Hamas, and Hezbollah killing civilians on purpose for political goals then you are being intentionally dishonest.
MonHedAna t1_iujq0kf wrote
If you fund & train groups on how to attack and kill civilians to achieve a political goal then yeah they are. Iran guards do that with both Hamas and Hezbulla.
There is obviously a difference between supporting a side in the Civil War and training groups to attack civilians on purpose. It’s fucking ludicrous you pretend those are the same. Fuck these people and anyone who targets civilians for political purpose like Hamas and Hezbollah.
helix_ice t1_iugwcbp wrote
So do most of the world powers, including the US.
Do I think IRGC is a terrorist group? They certainly commit terroristic actions. Should they be labeled as such? Depends on the consequences.
Labeling an entire section of a governmental organization as a terrorist group is extremely problematic.
Throwing around the terrorist label in this way can and will have unintended consequences.
MelaatsenVerplaatser t1_iuh5vgu wrote
So does the EU
MonHedAna t1_iujpp7s wrote
What group did the EU establish, fund, & train to carry out terror attacks on civilians? I’m legitimately curious
DonDove t1_iuhhstn wrote
I mean look at the Russians and the drones just a few weeks ago
Zizbouze t1_iugwtcq wrote
I agree with you it's ridiculous how word's definition are getting so fluid and lose the essence of what they meant.
Terrorist is more particular cause it's been "fluid" cause it's change depending on the point of view. A Resistant for one would be the Terrorist of another one.
misoramensenpai t1_iuhipjw wrote
Huh, I wonder if the word terrorist has ever had its definition changed before? Like if the original meaning was state repression, for example, but later changed because it suited political aims of the time?
Words are just politics. They don't really mean anything, I'm afraid. Literally 1984
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Ffusu t1_iuhbb9v wrote
That’s the thing, the word has lost its actual meaning already. Everyone is / supports terrorists. Just matter of taking side and tribalism in the end. This sort of claim is simply meant now to show what terrorism EU openly disprove and what EU silently approve.
Double_Ad_2824 t1_iuhtsol wrote
Perspective is everything; from my point of view using such repressive methods against their own population is terrorism. From their point of view, they're doing God's work.
Notable is the definition the UK uses: https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/terrorism
omega3111 t1_iui3y8u wrote
> the actions they take against the people
I don't think you know what the IRGC is. When you say "the people" I assume you mean those of Iran, but the IRGC is an international body. They oversee their proxies in the ME, like Hezbollah, and are responsible for the Shia militias in Iraq and Syria as well. They have a strong presence in Syria (which Israel is bombing), including creating and launching drones. Their main business is exporting terrorism, so the designation is not only apt, it's only decades late.
shadow1515 t1_iug0b0p wrote
Their most elite unit literally exists only to export and enable violent extremism, so...duh?
tabernumse t1_iuh1zhb wrote
"terrorist" is a 100% meaningless term in 2022
dj012eyl t1_iugstjl wrote
The real irony is that right now they're counterrevolutionaries.
DonDove t1_iuhhxgn wrote
So can you say they're....freedom fighters?
Eeeeeeh?
Kaionacho t1_iugsskj wrote
Of Course they are the bad ones here, but at this point the term "Terrorist" has no meaning anymore whatsoever.
Particular_Light_296 t1_iuh77ck wrote
YES PLEASE
[deleted] t1_iufpzcq wrote
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stanfordgay t1_iuh6z47 wrote
When is it Russia's term to be called a terrorist state? In 40 years?
JustMrNic3 t1_iuhe22x wrote
Good, do it!
Both Iran and Russia are terrorists and should be treated as such.
thefartingmango t1_iuieb26 wrote
Took long enough
[deleted] t1_iuitv94 wrote
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Beepersteen t1_iufx6al wrote
Interesting - I wonder if they will next consider classifying the sun as hot.
red_purple_red t1_iui9slz wrote
Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons nor a defense pact with anyone afaik, so idk why NATO isn't sending in troops already to stop the killing. If Ukraine with NATO weapons can hold its own against Russia, NATO itself should be able to easily defeat the Iranian regime's Russian-based military.
straycarbon t1_iuio7r4 wrote
Because NATO isn’t the world police, it’s a defensive pact.
meabbott t1_iufzr6r wrote
How can they be terrorists - Germany when they're in Iran?
[deleted] t1_iufvusj wrote
Well if you actually fucking read these holy books, the Abrahamic religions are all terrorist ideologies. Unfortunately, humans are fucking horrible life forms who take literally thousands of years to figure out what is right and wrong.
[deleted] t1_iufx8f6 wrote
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Phnrcm t1_iuhp6yn wrote
It is funny that in every thread about Islam, "Abrahamic religions" always come up without fail.
anti-DHMO-activist t1_iuisfka wrote
Well obviously, because a significant part of the world population remembers either directly or culturally what happened in the name of christianity and/or islam.
Here in germany for example we still have monuments and official holidays/festivities directly made after the 30-year-war 1648. We also still have towers standing where "witches" used to be imprisoned. And so much more.
This kind of living history is a thing in many parts of the world. Just because christianity got comparably tame in the last 100 years or so, doesn't mean that it doesn't count. The relative impotency of the christian churches in europe was paid for with blood. Lots and lots of blood.
Americans lack this kind of living history, because they don't really have any. But elsewhere this is quite normal to be in the cultural consciousness.
anti-DHMO-activist t1_iug5uve wrote
This is so reductive as to be quite useless I think.
The "holy" books are all highly problematic, no disagreement. However, all those books can be read in many, many different ways. There is no single "correct" interpretation - especially since those books contain so many consistency and logic issues, that a logically sound direct reading is pretty much impossible.
I think religion has to be kept on a short leash. But so directly labeling their books as terrorist just increases hate on all sides and leads to even deeper divides.
With enough education, the worst parts of religion will solve themselves, as we have seen in almost all highly educated regions except the US.
Until then, I'd recommend to be less... direct. Because a deeply antagonized group is closer knit and much harder to break into.
WexfordHo t1_iufpetp wrote
Well it’s about goddamned time, they’ve only been arming and training terrorists for decades. What next, are we finally going to admit that the Pakistani ISI runs the Taliban through the Haqqani Network?