Comments
Rossismyname t1_j9sbweq wrote
Pentagon fails its audits all the time, they can't even manage their own spending
Professional-Can1385 t1_j9sei8l wrote
It’s difficult to keep up with that much money.
DevoidHT t1_j9sjkr9 wrote
The US military is almost a shadow government. Not in the sense that they’re clandestinely manipulating events or whatever but they have a bigger budget(gdp) than many countries and very little oversight(compared to the civilian budget).
gofundyourself007 t1_j9t7nkw wrote
Yeah they have black budgets, underground SCIFs (where high ranking officials can learn of certain secrets they are cleared for), and incredibly compartmentalized to facilitate secrecy. The MIC is obsessed with compartments and modules. From their weapons platforms to their bunkers and especially with their hierarchy. I read one year (2016 I believe) that 6.5 trillion (with a T!) went “missing” into black budget projects. That’s not corruption, it’s way too much. It’s likely them spending on things they don’t want any record of. It’s very shady and needs to be thoroughly audited imo.
Edit: corrected misspelling
Iztac_xocoatl t1_j9thvyb wrote
SCIF not skiff. A skiff is a little boat you use to get to a bigger one on a mooring. I guess the military probably has skiff too though so technically correct
gofundyourself007 t1_j9vo88v wrote
Ah thanks for correcting me without being a jerk about it.
Cruxion t1_j9ufv94 wrote
Maybe they have underground rivers they navigate to get between all the top-secret underground military bases?
/S because you know someone's gonna take it seriously and suggest it's our first line of defense against the reptilians.
[deleted] t1_j9ths80 wrote
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gofundyourself007 t1_j9vogzs wrote
No wonder we have a debt of over 27 trillion if we just accept that the Pentagon’s black budget is larger than their actual budget.
insan3guy t1_j9v5fnc wrote
> underground skiffs where high ranking officials can learn of certain secrets they are cleared for
No you don’t understand, the navy uses skiffs, the army uses dinghies
> I read one year (2016 I believe) that 6.5 trillion went “missing” into black budget projects
I’d ask for a source but it’s probably the same place you thought you learned what a scif is for
gofundyourself007 t1_j9vo210 wrote
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/pentagon-audit-budget-fraud/
There’s a source that you didn’t ask for. It’s not the original it just references the original article. The 6.5 trillion was more than the Pentagon’s entire budget that year by A LOT. If it is corruption then we have a serious leak in our budget.
Also I learned about SCIFs from Congressmen who have repeatedly described being allowed into these sites (not boats). Some may even be located in the aforementioned bunkers but that’s just an educated guess.
insan3guy t1_j9vul5f wrote
Good article, thanks. As you said, there's no way that amount of money is 100% corruption. On the other hand, there's no way it's all being used for things outside the scope of national defense. Sometimes secrets must be kept - the titanium procurement for the SR-71 is one such example. Yes, it's absolutely shady, but that doesn't automatically mean it's improper.
And a scif (sensitive compartmented information facility) is a place that's secure enough to store/transmit/work with certain types of documents/information. It's just a type of room built or modified to a certain certification to allow the handling of classified stuff. Less nuclear bunker and more windowless room with a faraday cage.
I've been inside a few as a lowly navy e4, they're nowhere near as exciting as people seem to think. Including congressmen who don't know what they're talking about, or who had to take the GED 3 times before passing. It's a low bar.
Hip_Hop_Hippos t1_j9w2xw9 wrote
Dude, a SCIF is just a room where you're allowed to store, view and discuss classified information. You're wildly overblowing these things, they aren't secret lairs (edit: typo). They're windowless rooms with a door that you can't kick in.
>The 6.5 trillion was more than the Pentagon’s entire budget that year by A LOT. If it is corruption then we have a serious leak in our budget.
And the first sentence here should be your clue that 6.5 trillion dollars didn't get spent on classified projects in a single year.
Hypertension123456 t1_j9t69bv wrote
Exactly. Its always been like this, everywhere. Any large scale human project has to deal with corruption and malfeasance. I'm sure when the Egyptians built the pyramids someone skimmed something for themselves. The genius is getting the job done through adversity versus failing.
[deleted] t1_j9tby40 wrote
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Dingo9933 t1_j9v8bly wrote
Slap a tag that says "Military Expense" on anything and we ( the US) will not even look twice at what its being used for and will only get mad if you DONT spend it all.
So much better than funding a i dont know....National Health care plan SMH
smilbandit t1_j9v9vbb wrote
i say drop their future budget to only what can be audited
LystAP t1_j9slvl9 wrote
I just have come to accept that's just how things are in the U.S..
>Scott Greytak, the advocacy director for the U.S. office of Transparency International, cited a broader “decay” in U.S. political institutions as a major contributor to the country’s declining rating. Gretyak noted that public confidence in U.S. elections has been undercut by disinformation and record-setting amounts of untraceable money in elections—especially in 2020, when twice as much was spent compared with 2016.
>
>“Second, and increasingly important, are these series of really bombshell exposés by media outlets that are demonstrating how much dirty money is flowing into the United States’ financial system,” he said, referencing a joint investigation published by BuzzFeed News and the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists last year that revealed how major banks had knowingly allowed trillions of dollars of suspect financial transactions to go ahead, enabling drug kingpins, kleptocrats, and terrorists to move corrupt cash around the world.
All across the country, lobbyists and interest groups are rife, and our political system is crap. Both parties accuse the other of corruption, and both are right because both parties are infested with corruption. People like to bang on corruption of other countries, but arguably the U.S. is just as bad as a lot of them. We're not Russia levels of bad yet, but looking at the news, I feel that future is always looming in sight.
People say we shouldn't spend more money on foreign aid and spend it here. I'm not convinced that they are saying that because they are righteous, but more because they want the money here to steal themselves.
Cfwydirk t1_j9sn2pc wrote
Amen. When you take off the star spangled rose colored glasses, it’s pretty ugly here.
Pryoticus t1_j9ssduv wrote
We don’t have enough oversight when we find our own wars
Feruk_II t1_j9v58pd wrote
You don't really think they spent $20,000 on a hammer, $30,000 on a toilet seat, do you?
Cfwydirk t1_j9vf39i wrote
There have been a few instances of such things but, they never tell you what happened to cause the craziness.
Such as was the contractor tasked to find a better way of doing this or that? Then, after analysis the old tried and true equipment or method of doing things was the best way causing the research cost being rolled into the cost of the item.
Feruk_II t1_j9vffas wrote
I think that's part of it, but look at the Pentagon. They can't even pass an audit. So it's not so much a matter of money being spent poorly as much as just a lack of understanding of how the money was actually spent.
Cfwydirk t1_j9vfnie wrote
There is a reason they don’t leave a trail for the auditors to find.
cscf0360 t1_j9umb72 wrote
Yeah, like Trump's massive corporate giveaway in the form of the PPP "loans". I trust Ukraine with the money more than US corporations.
Cfwydirk t1_j9ve5sv wrote
That’s the beauty of politics. When you fund things and there is no oversight it’s hard to point fingers.
westdl t1_j9wrjzc wrote
They’re killing Russian murders and rapists and doing so with extreme efficiency. At this point I don’t care if a few Ukrainians skim off the top to pimp out their bomb shelter. Besides, has any politician in the US been prosecuted for corruption this century? They don’t become millionaires off of their government salary.
[deleted] t1_j9tbrsg wrote
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NuteTheBarber t1_j9tdfq5 wrote
This is why republicans wanted an auditor general but it got shot down
Ltownbanger t1_j9trmc8 wrote
How would their proposal differ from the office of the Comptroller Genereal that the US already has?
nomofica t1_j9vzzo9 wrote
It wouldn't, it's a milquetoast attempt to generate more "we tried but those evil Democrats stood in our way" talking points.
Cfwydirk t1_j9vdimz wrote
Smoke and mirrors. There is already a branch of government that fills that roll. Since 1921, the (General Accountability Office) has been serving the public. In that role. The politicians of both parties hold them on a leash and don’t have them audit all Federal programs as they should. “The work of the GAO is done at the request of congressional committees or subcommittees or is mandated by public laws or committee reports.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Accountability_Office
Orphasmia t1_j9sifyc wrote
I don’t think they can even afford to misuse any of the aid they’ve received.
MGMAX t1_j9syuu5 wrote
Well don't get me wrong, we did have a corruption fiasco in defense ministry just recently, but that was about food products price gouging.
I'm sure that a couple of MREs and uniform kits are being lost along the way, but the propaganda points of Ukraine selling arms on black market is pure, distilled idiocy
Agitated-Aspect1242 t1_j9t3os2 wrote
Also you'd have to be pretty bold to try any large scale embezzlement 'cause I'm sure if you got found out you'd be in a whole world of shit (like maybe just dead, they're at war after all, they ain't playin).
Thue t1_j9sv81u wrote
Ukraine as a whole would not gain anything by misuse. But individual corrupt officers or officials inside Ukraine could misuse aid for personal gain. Tragedy of the commons.
Hypertension123456 t1_j9t6vgj wrote
If Ukraine falls, then those corrupt officers or officials end up dead or in prison. And there families as well. Even if they are enemy collaborators, well, traitors aren't looked at kindly when their usefulness ends. Russia has enough kleptocrats of its own, they won't need to tolerate one's from Ukraine. The brutal nature of the Russian regime does put a lot of pressure on Ukraine.
You can see it on the battlefield. Ukraine fights so hard because they are facing genocide if they fail. Russia miscalculated how well Ukraine remembers the Holodomor. There might be some corruption left, but not nearly enough to siphon weapons and supplies from the front line.
Russia on the other hand, they face no consequences for failure. If someone's army looks below the money spent due to corruption, it's Putins army for sure.
Thue t1_j9teiat wrote
As I said, tragedy of the commons.
TrumpDesWillens t1_j9tlgg0 wrote
No, if ukraine loses the corrupt will move to bern or london which is what they've been doing even before the war and they'll still do the same if ukraine wins.
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Martinat0r t1_j9wdgz1 wrote
Damn people really forget fast that ukraine is the most corrupt country in europe.
likebudda t1_j9sjdaf wrote
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Ukraine is public about their ongoing battles with corruption and it's silly to think that there isn't some profiteering going on during any war.
Thue t1_j9svpsl wrote
It seems almost certain that some level of misuse has to be happening. On the other hand, the combat effectiveness of the Ukrainians puts an upper limit to the level of misuse, at a level which is probably acceptable.
BigHardThunderRock t1_j9tgdau wrote
And it's silly to push a GOP talking point until there's any evidence of that sort of thing happening and pulling funding because of it.
-lighght- t1_j9w7sph wrote
Everything that questions the liberal narrative is a GOP talking point apparently.
All that you're doing is building walls between people, making it seem like there is truly only two camps of belief. It's ineffective and does more harm than good.
Consider debating the points made instead of using gotcha catchphrases.
Edit: I got a little fired up. It's just that I don't fall within either of the traditional party lines, and people irl have used "that's a republican talking point" to shut down some valid points/questions I've had. My comment stands but I wanted to explain why it seems I took it personally.
BigHardThunderRock t1_j9xx7n1 wrote
Well, think of it this way. This isn't some academic fact-finding mission. There's intent behind it, especially since this is a Washington official.
>“Up until this point, we don’t have any evidence that U.S. assistance is being misused or misspent but, again, the key is not resting on anybody’s good will or virtue,” Power said in response to a question posed about Ukraine’s history of corruption. “It’s checks and balances, the rule of law, the integrity of officials.”
>Ukraine has struggled with corruption throughout much of its time as an independent country since separating from the Soviet Union in 1991, but Ukrainian officials have taken steps in recent years to institute reforms to limit corruption, most recently under the administration of President Volodymyr Zelensky.
>The USAID leader said Ukraine has seen a strengthening of its institutions fighting corruption since 2014, when then-President Viktor Yanukovych was forced out of office amid widespread protests over his close ties to Russia.
>She also explained that the U.S. Government Accountability Office launched a new initiative to help Ukraine expand its auditing institution, which she said will be needed for the reconstruction of Ukraine.
>...Zelensky removed some officials in his government last month as part of a push against corruption. Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov also shuffled some of his top staff earlier this month over corruption allegations in his department.
This isn't some new article. It's the same parent article.
So to counter "we don’t have any evidence that U.S. assistance is being misused or misspent" with a "doesn't matter if there's no evidence, it's happening!" and an article about a thing that's already addressed in the parent article like it's something new, that's the gotcha.
To grab at points without evidence, that's not "just having a question."
At the end of the day, we're just random posters on a content aggregator site. So get as fired as you want until the next coffee break. lmao
-lighght- t1_j9yl15n wrote
>So to counter "we don’t have any evidence that U.S. assistance is being misused or misspent" with a "doesn't matter if there's no evidence, it's happening!"
I didn't mean to imply that I'm certain it's happening. If I had to bet, I'd say that some of it is being misused. How much, I couldn't tell you. But any time large amounts of money are involved will multiple levels of administration and bureaucracy, some of that money is misused. Whether some of the money is legit being stolen, or some of it is being wasted to meet a quota (like in the US military), there is always some sort of bullshit going on when there is enough people, and enough money involved.
I'm not certain it's happening, but I would bet that it is in some form. Also, no evidence doesn't mean it's debunked.
But thank you for explaining your views on it, truly.
BigHardThunderRock t1_j9z07j2 wrote
Unfortunately, corruption isn't a debunked or not issue; it's a forever struggle.
For this article, it's whether or not there's anything actionable at least for the politician as they make their case for aid packages. If they did find corruption, then there needs to be an immediate plan to address it, tweaking the package if needed.
Sure-Satisfaction479 t1_j9tjgv2 wrote
Nobody said pull funding. But many don’t believe their is zero misuse of funds. Not everything is GOP talking points. Calm down and come back to reality where perfect management of funds likely ain’t happening.
BigHardThunderRock t1_j9tl8o0 wrote
>Nobody said pull funding.
You can get to it from the article.
>Some Republicans who have raised doubts about the continued U.S. support for Ukraine have questioned how the money being sent there is being used.
And if you want to talk about reality, then it's the reality of how such inquiries are being used. No politician is just posing an innocent question.
Sure-Satisfaction479 t1_j9vit45 wrote
I’m referring to OP
stormelemental13 t1_j9swzwe wrote
> Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Fairly often, it is. For decades there wasn't any evidence of wolves in our county. Was that conclusive proof there weren't any, no, but in practical terms that didn't matter. Either there weren't wolves, or there were wolves that were having so little impact no one had noticed them, which worked for us.
MysticEagle52 t1_j9xh3mb wrote
Well said
Mob1lis_in_mobil1 t1_j9wbyyk wrote
One of the reasons why the US should have been giving aid directly in material support: harder to misuse bullets and tanks.
EphraimJenkins t1_j9se96j wrote
But one can totally understand why Russian propaganda would try to plant that fake notion. Is Tucker Carlson pushing this lie too?
ProbablyTeasingYou t1_j9skqwp wrote
From what I've seen, Tuck is more about the "why should you be forced to pay for this?" bullshit. It's a good line to get the libertarian/tea party/magat morons all upset.
Russia is pushing this particular narrative. That is, Ukraine is being armed by the west to destroy Russia. China seems to be flirting with picking that up. I think that is what Biden is speaking to imho. It is currently being painted as western aggression.
Thue t1_j9svjae wrote
It has always amazed me that the anti-tax Republicans are seemingly so happy to pay for the US's outsized military budget. The US could get away with spending much less tax and debt on its military.
That said, military aid to Ukraine is a much better use of tax money than many other parts of military expenditure. For example, the nationbuilding in Iraq and Afghanistan were colossal wastes of money for little benefit, often without even a coherent achievable end goal or plan, yet I don't remember Republicans being very vocal about them.
BigHardThunderRock t1_j9tfub2 wrote
>It has always amazed me that the anti-tax Republicans are seemingly so happy to pay for the US's outsized military budget.
That's the thing though. Everything is already been paid for. It's just handing it out instead of leaving it in a warehouse. So the answer to "why should you be forced to pay for this?" is "Well, you already did!".
nowander t1_j9u68uc wrote
It's honestly probably cheaper to ship most of the stuff to Ukraine than to decommission it properly.
Is_that_even_a_thing t1_j9tdf9i wrote
Because GE, Halburton, Baker Hughes, Fluor, Kellogg group etc.
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Good_ol_any t1_j9sux8j wrote
Wasn't some Ukrainian politicans wife caught trying to smuggle 20+ million USD in cash out of the country shortly after the conflict started?
Pretty silly to pretend there isn't some level of corruption, they are human after all.
Doesn't mean we shouldn't continue sending aid.
Kempeth t1_j9t926g wrote
Everything is a matter of degrees.
"No evidence" = "Nothing to the point that would have us concerned"
I don't know the incident your refer to but if it happened shortly after the conflict started I would say that probably wasn't any recent aid money. If you got your hands on 20 million in cash then you've probably been stockpiling for a while.
sonoma95436 t1_j9siq0r wrote
Tokyo Rose Carlson loves to stir up shit for Putin.
autotldr t1_j9sbc0y wrote
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 66%. (I'm a bot)
> A top Biden administration official affirmed that no evidence exists that Ukraine is misusing the financial assistance it is receiving from the United States.
> Samantha Power, the administrator of the U.S. Agency for International Development, said during a CNN town hall on Thursday evening that Ukraine has made progress for years in working to root out corruption, but officials are continually checking to ensure funding is being used properly.
> Ukraine has struggled with corruption throughout much of its time as an independent country since separating from the Soviet Union in 1991, but Ukrainian officials have taken steps in recent years to institute reforms to limit corruption, most recently under the administration of President Volodymyr Zelensky.
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 corruption^#2 official^#3 US^#4 being^#5
Hk472205 t1_j9t7yzb wrote
If any misuse is going to happen, its after the war has ended, when criminal organizations/terrorist organizations are going to try and get surplus gear using corruption.
PhysicalGraffiti75 t1_j9v3023 wrote
The only people who think the funds are misused are the same people that proudly dumped their life savings into Trumps stop the steal scam.
NewlyOld31 t1_j9we2va wrote
Yeah that seems like a poor choice of words to use. Anytime there are billions flowing there is going to be abuse. Guaranteed.
No_Mushroom351 t1_j9sq776 wrote
Oh well if the federal government says it's all good we're set! lol
Billions of dollars went unaccounted for in our occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, billions will disappear in Ukraine. It's just the cost of doing business.
Ukraine especially (along with much of eastern Europe) has a history of HUGE corruption, all former Soviet bloc states do. To pretend they're magically boyscouts is ridiculous.
You can support Ukraine, but please recognize that statement is pure BS
PutlerDaFastest t1_j9xnbvt wrote
We've heard all the copium before comrade. Here's a link so you can surrender when Putin sends you to the front.
No_Mushroom351 t1_j9y4bsb wrote
Ain't it weird you have to blindly swallow propaganda or be a tankie? Lol.
You're doing the same shit we did 20 years ago in Afghanistan when Fox News said you either support the invasion or you're a collaborator. You're that. You're doing it.
Jesus I thought they made you kids read 1984 in school still.
PutlerDaFastest t1_j9ylc4u wrote
Russia invaded Ukraine. I didn't. Russia threatens me and my family. I'm not threatening them. Your people are embarrassed because Russians can't fight. You can't win your war of conquest and your Hitler wannabe dictator will have to face consequences along with your people.
I'm definitely not falling for Russian propaganda. That's for small minds like yours and modern fascist sympathizers like yourself.
No_Mushroom351 t1_ja1ak3p wrote
dude I'm in south carolina lol.
It's just people with your rah rah attitude give zero fucks about any other world conflict and try to poise as these moral paragons "support Ukraine" while eating spicy Cheetos between league of legends games
Anyway.
Original comment is that the journal was a joke because Ukraine is steeped in corruption, Zelensky has even said that's one of his top problems. Then Ol Joe says everything is crystal clear. It's a joke.
Now pls. You just figured out Ukraine existed a year ago, let's not play soldier.
PutlerDaFastest t1_ja1sllg wrote
We know that corruption affects different areas in different ways. You're talking without any evidence of corruption affecting weapons and aid shipments which is the type of corruption they are worried about. Our last president, Trump, was more corrupt than anything you'd find in Ukraine. I'm sure you saw your boss Putin confirm trump was his puppet on Russia TV 1 time after time.
Fascist Russian trolls come from Russia and the Republican party. Maybe your poor education means you didn't know where Ukraine was a year ago but you can't project your failures on the rest of us. I bet the Russian education system is pretty bad. You guys haven't figured out it's a war.
I already was a soldier and I spent years in Europe, including some time in Eastern Europe. You keep backing your fascist Russian dictator. I'm going to stick with the NATO allies who stood beside us through 2 wars and 20 years. I know because I saw them there when I was playing soldier instead of living out your little league of legend fantasy about me you little fascist freak.
No_Mushroom351 t1_ja3jd76 wrote
Oh christ brother are you in for a rude awakening, lol.
Look how much Biden's brother made in contracting in the 'rebuilding of Iraq,' how the whole company disintegrated under corruption charges. His son got paid hundreds of thousands to sit on an 'executive board' in Ukraine that's notoriously always under investigation for corruption. Not even Biden's fault, they all have their hands in shit, same with Bush / Clinton.
It's a racket, dumbass. The fuck is your service #?
I had the itch to look through your comments looking for nuanced takes and it's pretty much exclusively glow worm talk - like another said, you're a religious zealot who for whatever reason has made this war part of their personality (lol). Enjoy living in your fantasy world where a former soviet bloc state and the United States MIC are innocent, neither have a pretty clear track record of intense corruption, definitely not!
https://news.un.org/en/focus/ukraine/donate
Here ya go Warhawk, dump more of your money for Ukraine! Help defeat Putin! Give money, or at least ask your mom for some.
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Visual_Bathroom_6917 t1_j9upiv7 wrote
Is so naive to think that because they are fighting for their life corrupt officials won't be looking for a personal profit, it shows a profound lack of understanding of reality
No_Mushroom351 t1_j9vakkf wrote
Yeah.. if anything, corruption gets worse in crises, not better
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nubsauce87 t1_j9sy88u wrote
They're literally fighting for their lives... I highly doubt they'd be "misusing" anything... whatever that even means...
gofundyourself007 t1_j9t847p wrote
True. If anyone is and they’re caught then that’s treason and Ukrainians justifiably are not tolerating traitors at all right now.
feckoffwnkcnut t1_j9u2r2l wrote
so why did zelensky sacked his defense minister along with his deputies? i cant believe people just gobbling up all of this after what happened in Afghanistan.
Xenomemphate t1_j9v8n5q wrote
and you know that was related to US aid how?
Slov6 t1_j9u7t61 wrote
Came to comment this. Have my upvote.
PrettiKinx t1_j9tnx6t wrote
Sure, Jan. Don't believe it.
Watcher_of_Waves t1_j9tm79s wrote
Classic government! “We have investigated ourselves and found no funny business! Now stop asking peasant.” Gota love propping up puppet states.
InfoSponge95 t1_j9sajk6 wrote
“We checked on ourselves and we don’t think there’s anything wrong here”
RightClickSaveWorld t1_j9sck4c wrote
The US official is checking on Ukraine.
Idliketothinkimsmart t1_j9slvvv wrote
The same people whose pentagon failed multiple audits?
DevAway22314 t1_j9sqeuc wrote
No, there are a large number of auditors. It's very unlikely the same people did the both audits
We can certainly hope they're holding Ukraine to an equally strict standard though
chrisco125 t1_j9sdi3n wrote
Not believable
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Cfwydirk t1_j9sb6cx wrote
I 100% support arming Ukraine.
However in America we fund many programs, yet have little oversight of exactly where the money goes.