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fidel1o t1_ja8slxu wrote

Reply to comment by resdivinae in Things DC does really well by erichinnw

what do you mean VA doesnt have actual bars? thats just not even true

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MFoy t1_ja8tbb1 wrote

Yes it is. All establishments in Virginia have to sell a certain percentage of their total sales in food if they want to have a liquor license. You can't just sell alcohol. There are also extreme limitations over happy hour specials and even advertising them. Until just a few years ago, you couldn't put a sign outside telling what happy hour specials an establishment had.

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moonbunnychan t1_jaa7cmx wrote

Also since all bars have to also technically be a restaurant, you get WAY more people bringing their kids to what is very clearly an adult environment and that gets annoying fast. Some places have a no kids after a certain time policy, but not many, and even the ones that do often don't enforce it.

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fidel1o t1_ja8v4bd wrote

okay so they have to sell food, how does that not make it a bar?

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MFoy t1_ja8wpa5 wrote

Because if you serve hard liquor, you have to maintain a 45%-55% food to mixed drink ratio (beer and wine don't count). You can't have a hole in the wall establishment that focuses on selling alcohol.

If you have a beer/wine only license, you have to sell $4,000 in food a month, no matter what. $2,000 of that must be in entrees.

Exceptions have been carved out over the years for entertainment venues, vineyards and breweries where alcohol is brewed on-premise, but these laws date back to the end of prohibition, and have basically stopped all dive bars from existing in Virginia.

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BirdLawyerPerson t1_ja9sipv wrote

There's a floor plan requirement, too, where at least half of the seats in an establishment must be at tables or booths, rather than at the bar. So there aren't the traditional narrow bars like in most cities, where you walk in and it's a few high tops plus the bar itself.

Throw in the food requirement (and more importantly, the requirement that the kitchen always be serving full entrees while alcohol is being served), and you basically don't have bars in Virginia.

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TechnoBagels t1_ja8wntb wrote

i think it's reasonable to categorize something as a restaurant or bar based on whether it sells mostly food or drinks

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resdivinae t1_ja8v1rh wrote

Legally, VA does not have stand-alone bars. There are only restaurants that serve alcohol. Any establishment that serves alcohol must earn 51% of its revenue from food sales.

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BirdLawyerPerson t1_ja9rlxf wrote

Not only that, they must also have a certain percentage of their floor space and seats in a traditional dining room setting.

So even if they're serving enough food to cover the revenue requirement, it'd be illegal to open a bar that just has a bar and barstools.

Plus they're not allowed to keep the bar open for drinks unless the kitchen is also open for food orders.

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XcXBOX360 t1_ja92rfn wrote

How does that work if they happen to get a bunch of customers who only buy booze and throw off the ratio? Do they just stop selling drinks until enough people have bought food again?

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resdivinae t1_ja94gyv wrote

I'm not sure, tbh. But judging by the lack of generous happy hours around here, I think that might be one tactic used.

Also, one time I went to the Brass Rabbit in Clarendon for a $3 wine night. Of course, it turned out that was too good to be true. Wine was only $3 is you ordered it with food.

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NorseTikiBar t1_ja9ogzt wrote

It's more in how you'll see square footage allocated. There's always going to be a few extra tables next to a dance floor, and the kitchen is likely to stay open longer. They're mostly subtle things that you wouldn't think about, but it does mean that a small bar like Showtime couldn't work in VA.

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marcove3 t1_jaak1gc wrote

Does this apply to breweries? Or only for places that sell spirits? I feel I've been to breweries/wineries in VA that dont sell food or just have food trucks that dont seem to be affiliated to the establishment.

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mthchsnn t1_jaavqxz wrote

If you produce alcohol it's a different kind of license, and if you do it on a farm it's another different kind of license. The rule doesn't apply to wineries, for example.

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gobias t1_jab8rpz wrote

There are some good dive bars that get by the food sales rule by having some awesome stuff on the menu, like Cue Club in Annandale, and also Mark’s Pub in Falls Church. There’s also Dogwood, 4 P’s, Spacebar, etc…but all of these places are forced to focus a huge amount of their attention on having a large food menu and not just be a bar.

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