Comments
4thofeleven t1_irv2x59 wrote
Sugihara, it should be noted, was also critical of Japanese policies - he'd previously resigned his position in Manchuria in protest over how the Japanese were treating local Chinese.
GottaPSoBad t1_irsonsm wrote
Everybody's got their blindspots, sadly.
carbinePRO t1_irsus4e wrote
That's a really light way of putting it.
It's just really hard to completely root for this guy. Rabe found his success by rubbing shoulders with Nazis, and agreeing with their racial politics. Yes, he was technically de-Nazified, but he still supported the Nazis, even after they publicly outed their ideas with the Nuremberg Laws.
GottaPSoBad t1_irsvvxj wrote
I get you. Definitely not trying to downplay the issues here. I'm just saying it doesn't surprise me that a Japanese imperialist and a German Nazi would each fail, at least initially, to see how awful their own country was during WW2. Most people carry around some level of cognitive dissonance, especially about things that hit closer to home (literally or metaphorically).
carbinePRO t1_irsxh86 wrote
I hear that. I read something not too long ago about the idea of Nazis being heroes, and Rabe and Schindler were the subjects of that piece. The journal concluded that it is possible to separate the party affiliation from the person based on their deeds, which I believe is fair to a degree. There were a lot of German businessmen who were abroad and part of the Nazi Party that had no idea of what was happening back home. Maybe it's possible that Rabe was a just a naive idealist. He did write to Hitler hoping that he would stop the Japanese from committing war crimes against the Chinese. I don't know how someone would think Hitler would be capable of doing such a thing if they were aware of what he was ordering to happen to the Jews.
ThePhysicistIsIn t1_irtw3lk wrote
Close to a quarter of the german population was part of the Nazi party, for most it didn’t mean anything else than being part of a social club that helped them get promotions at work
Timpstar t1_irv3lx2 wrote
Exactly. It's a tough pill to swallow, but the lives of so many germans became not only liveable, but great thanks to the nazis. Sometimes people excuse bad behavior if it means it'll get their own living situation from bad to good.
ThePhysicistIsIn t1_irxyeke wrote
In terms of real wages the conditions of the average german did not actually materially improve during Nazi leadership, but it was no secret that refusing to join the party placed you at a disadvantage/made you suspect.
Many Anti-Nazis joined the party just to cast off suspicions. It really didn't mean you supported the party. No more than being part of the Communist party in the USSR meant you believed in Communism. It just meant you were willing to pretend.
HorsesSuck120 t1_irulcks wrote
I'll treat him like a human I guess. He did bad, and that should be noted, but he did do good, which should also be noted.
We shouldn't completely erase someone from history because they did something bad, if they also did a lot of good.
(Of course the more despicable the deeds, the more good they have to do to earn this respect)
[deleted] t1_irtxqvd wrote
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Logic_Nuke t1_irugugv wrote
I recently saw their alliance described as one where both sides are thinking "these idiots don't even know we're the REAL master race"
Elenano98 t1_irst68o wrote
"He was later denounced by an acquaintance for his Nazi Party membership, losing the work permit he had been given by the British Zone of Occupation. Rabe then had to undergo lengthy de-Nazification (his first attempt was rejected and he had to appeal) in the hope of regaining permission to work. He depleted his savings to pay for his legal defence.
Unable to work and with his savings spent, Rabe and his family survived in a one-room apartment by selling his Chinese art collection but it was insufficient to prevent their malnutrition. He was formally declared "de-Nazified" by the British on 3 June 1946 but continued to live in poverty. His family subsisted on wild seeds, his children eating soup and dry bread until running out of that as well. In 1948, Nanjing citizens learned of the Rabe family's dire circumstances and quickly raised a sum of money equivalent to $2,000 USD ($23,000 in 2022)." (Wikipedia)
Rings-of-Saturn t1_iruei7c wrote
Very interesting (Thank you for putting your citation)
Fatt-Deg-Pa-Hjernen t1_irsqdly wrote
So there was a second Schindler, but for Chinese citizens.
Does anyone know of other Schindlers that aren't as well-known as Schindler and Rabe?
Eurymedion t1_irsvay3 wrote
Hermann Goering's brother, Albert, helped German Jews and Hermann knew.
SCKR t1_irsyqzd wrote
But Albert was an open Opponent of the Nazi Ideology. A man with integrity and Honor, who sadly was treated badly after the war.
[deleted] t1_irtj1m3 wrote
Goering really wasn't that anti-Semitic off his own steam, when he started off. He was just that greedy he was willing to spend the rest of his life hanging out with the world's biggest anti-Semites and reinventing himself as one because that's what Hitler demanded of his inner circle
General1lol t1_irtl13i wrote
Philippine President Manuel L. Quezon took in approximately 1,300 Jewish refugees just before the Japanese invaded the islands. He donated his own land and had shelters built for the refugees. He expected to provide more amnesty to Jews but he lived in exile during the war and died before the Japanese surrendered. He “only” saved 1,300 refugees, as the US forced a strict quota on immigrants.
There is not a large Jewish community in Manila today, likely due in part to the Battle of Manila (Rape of Manila as some call it) where nearly 100,000 citizens were slaughtered by retreating Japanese. It is likely that the Jews rescued by Quezon were unfortunate victims of the onslaught.
There is a film about this, called “Quezon’s Game”.
[deleted] t1_irvmag0 wrote
Ho Feng Shan
> Ho Feng-Shan was a Chinese diplomat and writer for the Republic of China. When he was consul-general in Vienna during World War II, he risked his life and career to save "perhaps tens of thousands" of Jews by issuing them visas, disobeying the instruction of his superiors. It is known that Ho issued the 200th visa in June 1938, signed the 1906th visa on 27 October 1938, and was recalled to China in May 1940.
Formal-Rain t1_irva1a1 wrote
Chiune Sugihara the Japanese diplomat that saved jews from occupied Europe.
mathe1337 t1_irt5gzb wrote
Are you asking about a Schindler's list?
zealot416 t1_irtmkhl wrote
No, it would be a Schindlers List.
RedSonGamble t1_irv5tpr wrote
Fuuuuuck
lad_astro t1_irvnmt8 wrote
Nicholas Winton?
FreddieDoes40k t1_itx630g wrote
Aye, often called the British Schindler.
Thelazytimelord257 t1_irwhhdi wrote
>Does anyone know of other Schindlers that aren't as well-known as Schindler and Rabe?
Don't know if this counts but Maharaja Digvijaysinhji Ranjitsinhji Jadeja (the ruler of Jamnagar) sheltered Polish orphans and women. He provided them the essentials to Polish books.
ffnnhhw t1_iruqy6n wrote
I think I learned it here
The Chinese Embassy in Vienna issued visas so the Jews could leave Austria.
belisaria t1_irxbpnc wrote
Irena Sendler was a Polish social worker who helped smuggle children out of the Warsaw Ghetto
[deleted] t1_irwma46 wrote
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Killawife t1_irssm53 wrote
I read about this about 15 or so years ago and watch a documentary about it where there is actual real film from Nanking. And It is NOT nice. There are a few movies on this subject now, one starring Woody Harrelson was pretty good. But its dark, dark subject matter and you won't feel good after watching it. Its kind of that that older movie The killing fields about Kambodia. You just cant really fathom that there are people who would do such things.
ChilledDarkness t1_irsu54u wrote
"Just because you are bad guy, does not mean you are bad guy."
Thank you zangef
airobeauty t1_iru5j8i wrote
As from nanjing, we have been very grateful to John Rabe and Siemens company,his former residence which next to the nanjing university now is a memorial.
jthanson t1_irv8nyc wrote
This is a good example of the fallibility of taking a simplistic look at history. Nazis were of varying degrees of ideological orthodoxy. Some were fervent and would enthusiastically carry out horrible policies. Some were passive and would just go along with the party for convenience. Grouping them all together loses a lot of detail and nuance. Rabe didn’t seem to have much of an issue with the anti-Semitic properties of Nazi ideology but he did have a problem with the open brutality of the Japanese against China. That’s a complicated set of ideas from a modern perspective but tends to get flattened to “Nazis bad!” by modern readers.
WahooSS238 t1_irsqxin wrote
The fact he thought hitler would help just kinda hurts… this man’s here with no idea of the monster standing next to him.
Chillchinchila1 t1_iruavep wrote
He supported the Nazis even after Nuremberg. It seems he agreed with the Nazis about the “Jewish problem” but disagreed with letting Chinese die.
Rheinys t1_irsyd9k wrote
"only because you're the bad guy, doesn't mean that your the bad guy."
CyclingDutchie t1_irsn5nh wrote
good movie, too.
Deploider t1_irwnqv1 wrote
Chinese Schindler
[deleted] t1_irtvdn6 wrote
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carbinePRO t1_irsnbvv wrote
Fun fact, there's a Japanese person who did the same thing, except with Jews against the Nazis.
Chiune Sugihara, a.k.a., the Japanese Schindler.
I just find it ironic that they partnered in the war, but were actively against each other's treatment of specific people groups. If only they had this same insight, but with their own nations.