Comments
kungfoojesus t1_j4nv0b7 wrote
Hypertension, obesity and renal disease are more common in black population in anmerica. All of which lead to premature brain aging. These all are exacerbated by social class but these folks make zero Mention of this. It is a political piece and this kinda thing is everywhere. You can probably get to a similar conclusion but use actual science than just assumptions.
DamagedHells t1_j4p75x1 wrote
Pollution is the unifier. You're more likely to have elevated lead in your blood if you're black than if you're poor. Social class absolutely doesn't explain many of these disparities
miss_anthro_p t1_j4rpk0x wrote
Social class and institutional racism does help explain that. Because of historical limitations on where Black people could live, aka redlining, many black neighborhoods were in industrialized areas with polluting factories and/or became dumping grounds for waste materials that upper classes didn't want to see or come in contact with. Water systems where black people live were also less likely to be upgraded because they were not a priority. This means higher lead levels, higher diesel fumes, higher ground ozone and other air pollutants and this resulted in higher asthma rates etc.
DamagedHells t1_j4vt86m wrote
I'm not saying institutional racism doesn't help explain that, I'm saying class does not because poor white people still don't suffer the same levels of pollution as non poor black people.
miss_anthro_p t1_j4wnh3a wrote
I understood what you meant. But in the United states race is also a factor in class determination insomuch as a poor White person will still self identify and often be externally confirmed as being of a higher class than a Black person in the same income bracket. This is why, in many cases, affirmative action policies target non-whites in particular regardless of income. Black people, regardless of income, experience the impact of this social stratification on a daily basis. It affects their social mobility, income, and health outcomes.
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_PM_ME_YOUR_FORESKIN t1_j4oz2u9 wrote
Are “structural and social forces” not pointing toward institutionalized racism?
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_PM_ME_YOUR_FORESKIN t1_j4ry1hz wrote
No. If you can look at the totality of the US’s historical and current marginalization of Black communities and come to the conclusion it’s just some trait inherent in Black people, I’m going to assume a racist outlook. Let’s work on ensuring Black folks have equal footing in this society and then you can take a look at intra-community dynamics. But there’s not a way to, in my opinion, divorce the Black experience from generations of white supremacist oppression to draw these conclusions in a way that isn’t disingenuous.
(Edit: cont’d) Imagine asking, in 1950, “why does this have to be so ideological. Can’t we just point to some cultural dysfunction in the Black community?” as if we don’t have Black people drinking from separate water fountains. Things may be better than they we’re in 1950, but to assume that were in such a better place that those dynamics aren’t still pertinent is naive, if not intentionally harmful. It’s crazy to me that white people think that 350 years of legalized racial separation and impression is suddenly gone in the course of 50 years. It’s the privilege and naïveté of the oppressor to just turn their backs to those inconvenient truths.
Commercial_Emu_9921 t1_j4pepok wrote
What is an example of institutional racism?
VincentxH t1_j4pexvg wrote
Jim Crow laws
Commercial_Emu_9921 t1_j4pf6ck wrote
Does the law still exist AND enforced? You do know that these days, the people who are most violent towards black people are other black people?
DrKnowsNothing_MD t1_j4ph4hl wrote
If you were actually genuinely interested, you’d have googled such a topic a long time ago or at the very least before you commented.
_PM_ME_YOUR_FORESKIN t1_j4q4dhy wrote
They are clearly racist. Don’t feed the trolls.
DrKnowsNothing_MD t1_j4r68lb wrote
Gave em the smallest bit of benefit of the doubt since we’re on this sub and didn’t want others who are genuinely interested to not see a response
Kontropoli t1_j4rbox2 wrote
I don't understand why disagreeing with the main narrative = racism, yeah that guy wasn't the most articulate I can see that coming off wrong the way it was worded but to dismiss any dissenting ideas as racist is lazy, unintellectual, and ironically bigoted and I see it all the time it's so ridiculous.
_PM_ME_YOUR_FORESKIN t1_j4rxes9 wrote
Read their comments on this thread. Sometimes racism is just racism. I’m not anti-discourse. But I’m not going to waste my time arguing with people who say blatantly racist stuff.
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Xolver t1_j4pgu9g wrote
Unless you mean ALL culture is institutionalized racism - then no.
For example, can you really blame racism for people's eating habits? Is "the man" forcing anyone to eat less healthy? Because that, in part, explains the brain aging.
Before you say yes - do keep in mind there are cultures all around the world with similar levels of wealth and dissimilar levels of obesity. It does not make sense (without really, really good proof) to think that specifically in America obesity in the black population is caused by racism, while in other cultures and countries it's just "naturally" the way things are.
Edit: many responses, I don't see even one that tackles institutional racism equalling obesity as a direct cause. Especially considering other poor groups don't fare as badly in the obesity department. Guys, gals, remember what sub we're on. If you want to make a claim that something is causing something else, the burden of proof is on you, not on the person asking whether a certain claim is right or not.
2017hayden t1_j4prf8l wrote
I mean the black population in the US is disproportionately poor (which is undeniably linked to systemic racism). Poor individuals typically eat junk food most of the time because it’s fast and easy to make and in many cases significantly cheaper than healthier options. So yes I mean you can somewhat link eating habits to racism in this case. Is it the whole story no, is it a factor absolutely.
skasticks t1_j4pxpns wrote
Also poor areas are much more likely to be "food deserts," meaning you can't get good healthy food if you don't have transportation, time, money, or any combo of those three.
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Psychological_Pear23 t1_j4qc30g wrote
True, in some poor neighbourhoods you need to take 2 buses to get to a store where they sell whole foods, the neighboorhood store only sells junkfood. In the US i mean.
ImmuneHack t1_j4q3bka wrote
Neither a high educational attainment nor a high income reduces the likelihood of obesity among blacks.
It's absurd to think that a low income US Asian is more likely to be obese than a high income US black person.
Ergo, poverty is not the driver of the high rates of obesity among blacks.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40615-019-00663-z
2017hayden t1_j4q8kx3 wrote
Once poor eating habits are established it can be very difficult to change them. Ergo if you grow up eating largely junk food you’ll probably continue to make poor nutritional choices even if you have the means to do better than that. You’re jumping to conclusions off of a flawed premise.
Hearing_Deaf t1_j4rg251 wrote
So are you. You are literally claiming that bad food habits cannot be changed, just because it was started in childhood. In my humble opinion, it's extremely racist to claim blacks don't have the willpower to break bad eating habits, no matter their education and wealth.
anubiz96 t1_j4sd2k9 wrote
Its southern food culture it gets passed down. Look at what makes up southern American cuisine and soul food. To a point it is a result of racism as the food preferences and cooking habits are in no small part influenced by waht slaves were able to obtain for food.
I imagine you might see higher obesity rates ong multigenerational southern whites too due to the shared food culture.
Hearing_Deaf t1_j4sl831 wrote
So? They use more fried food. The french put so much butter on everything it's not even funny. A croissant is litterrally 1:1 dough and butter. The italians and olive oil. Canadians with poutine and mapple syrup. Every culture has some good and some bad elements to it.
Plus you do not have to cook the same 3 things for the rest of your life, no matter where you are from. The world is big, it's a choice to eat only bad or fast food. It can still be your culture, but restricting yourself to a certain diet is a choice, not an obligation.
anubiz96 t1_j4svzr1 wrote
Not saying its an obligation. But people more often than not peoole adhere closely to their culture. To a point we are all subject to our environmentand cultures. If it was very easy obesity wouldn't be on the rise in general around the world. Our bodies have hormonal responses to salt sugar and fat.
This is a really complicated topic. I would recommend if it really interets you that you do some in depth study on the history of slavery in the Untied states and the fall out after the civil war. The discrimination and the opression that followed officially well into the 1960s. There's a greater lacknof understanding of nutrition and access to healthy foods among poor people in general and black people in the United States have been disproportionately poor.
As well as how current food trends developed in the Untied States.
Its very complicated we all have free will, however most humans conform to their environment and culture.
Theres no one simple answer. There are many factors some to do with individual choice and also outside forces.
2017hayden t1_j4t96ep wrote
I never claimed “blacks don’t have the willpower to break bad eating habits” I claimed that bad habits when started at a young age are difficult for anyone to break. That’s been studied and confirmed. You’re trying awfully hard to twist a specific narrative out of my words.
anubiz96 t1_j4scpgz wrote
People are missing geography black people were largely enslaved in the southand lived for generations after in the south. Look at southern cuisine. The fact thet so much of traditional black american foods are based around the best you can with poor quality food available to slaves. There's a lot of fat, and frying etc. Cooking techniques used to make poorer quality food tasty.
If im not mistaken the south in general is more obese than other areas. I imagine southern whites are also more lokely to be obese as they were eating alot of thr same food as much if it was you know prepared by blacke people. Even if black people move from yhe south the food culture is born from there.
Trotskyist t1_j4slknp wrote
This seems like it’d be relatively easy to control for.
2017hayden t1_j4ta4fp wrote
Would it though? There’s so many factors involved. Stress for example often causes people to revert to old bad habits even if they’re self destructive.
Dinklemeier t1_j4q2knv wrote
Why is obesity seen historically as a sign of wealth in india then? Billions of poor people around the globe are not fat. Im solidly upper middle class and slowly getting fatter. Am i the victim somehow of racism in not aware of making me fat? Or is it the highly unlikely combination of me eating more calories than i burn while having a sedentary lifestyle?
I'm going with racism. That way i can blame someone else for my slow slide into obesity.
2017hayden t1_j4q8568 wrote
Obesity was always seen as a sign of wealth historically because in those times rich people were the only ones who could afford to eat enough to get fat and didn’t have to work in hard labor for a living. That’s no longer the case. There are plenty of very poor people who can still afford food just not good food and very few people work hard labor like those in medieval or renaissance societies did. Historical circumstances and reasoning don’t really apply here as societal norms have changed so much since that time.
chicagotodetroit t1_j4qfe8o wrote
>Billions of poor people around the globe are not fat.
Is it possible that it's because those people don't have the same highly-processed junk food that is prevalent in the US?
Seems like if you're poor in other countries, you eat things like beans, rice, and whatever grows locally, but if you're poor in the US, you eat things like McDonalds and food with high fructose corn syrup, excess sugar and salt, dyes, and cheap additives and fillers.
Dinklemeier t1_j4qftd6 wrote
So.. in other words.. not racism?
ChrysMYO t1_j4qhj90 wrote
Access to those foods is due to racism. Zoning laws for where convience stores are located vs groceries vs fast foods. Transportation hubs vs walkability access to food sources.
Subsidized food programs that priorize certain sugars and carbs that conflict with modern recommended health trends.
Dinklemeier t1_j4qsbvi wrote
And the families that are still obese that shop at the same stores as me? Obviously they live close enough to shop there. Are the white ones obese because of poor choices but the black ones because of racism? At some point one should take responsibility for what you stick in your body. There are plenty of skinny minorites too. Thru just eat less or burn more than they take in.
Altima-OG t1_j4qeol1 wrote
Depends on who you ask, but in olden times, and India has a lot of antiquated values, but again, depends who you ask.
If you're upper middle class and fat in America, you usually are actually lax in your dietary habits. However, you can also be a poor or lower/lower middle class person who has issues with maintaining preventive care, like working receiving in retail or two jobs in the service industry and work hard, but have no knowledge of good dietary practices, and/or time to prepare good food, and that shows as obesity. The high cost of inflation from greedy corporations and lack of basic food items due to logistical issues not helping poorer Americans.
Tearakan t1_j4qhc5k wrote
Because in the past food was much harder to come by. It was seen as a sign of wealth in western countries too in the past.
halisme t1_j4prlta wrote
Actually, this is pretty explainable through an economic lens. Cheap foods tend to be higher in things like fat and sugar due to various subsidies in the US, poor people are more likely to eat cheap food because that's what available to them. Black people are more likely to be poor, ergo a higher rate of obesity when not controlling for economic class.
Ok-Guava7336 t1_j4pwqrl wrote
Food deserts. Google.
Altima-OG t1_j4qc7z0 wrote
It does actually make sense. Because in those other countries(and you'd have to be specific, because different countries have different factors), people can forced into usually high intensity farm work/manual labor which can offset the obesity, but not the hypertension, as even athletes can suffer from that. Renal failure brought on by lack of preventive care for the poor and working poor is also a problem as well. So lack of preventive care and the ability to take off work to get that care, lack of resources to have a balanced diet and time needed to make good meals, the terrible infrastructure in black neighborhoods that have tainted drinking water. So there are many factors one has to look into that, if one is just looking for confirmation bias to win an Internet argument, rather than what constitutes a focus on the cause and a solution to the problem, then we reach an impasse.
Xolver t1_j4qkmbd wrote
Well, not to put too much focus on winning the internet argument, but I did say it makes sense only with really good proof. You wrote about a lot of different things, but not about whether there's good proof institutional racism specifically causes people to get fat. This is r/science, so science me.
ethancole97 t1_j4r7455 wrote
Food deserts. Where depending on the racial makeup of a neighborhood access to grocery stores and healthy food is non existent but fast food/convenience stores are easily accessible on foot but getting to a grocery store would require a car or a good enough public transportation system. When you live in an area where walking to McDonald’s is easier than planning a chunk of your day getting to and from the closest grocery store you would probably cut your loses and just eat at McDonald’s.
Xolver t1_j4rjiut wrote
I must not be articulating myself very well, although I'm not so sure how I can do better. I'll give it one last go and then if it doesn't work take the L to save everyone some time.
I understand the concept of food deserts. Now, what evidence is there that specifically institutional racism is causing it to occur more often [if it does] for black people, or to go back to the broader question, what evidence is there that institutional racism is causing obesity in the black community?
Put another way, if I were a statistician (and I am not, so give me some leeway in the terminology please), the null hypothesis should be that we don't know what's causing black obesity (or maybe that it's something much more trivial such as personal choice), and the alternative hypothesis should be that institutional racism is causing black obesity. But the null hypothesis is that we don't know, so we should cross a good enough evidentiary threshold to reject the null hypothesis to think about "accepting" our alternative hypothesis (I know we don't rigorously accept the alternative hypothesis in statistics - I'm just trying to pass a barrier here, to say that something should at least go in the direction of convincing us it's specifically institutional racism).
ChrysMYO t1_j4qgs7j wrote
Food deserts, the way the US government subsidizes corn and sugar industries. US subsidy programs for food produce and pricing.
Structural access to healthcare. Early childhood access to healthcare. Stable access to food during early childhood development. Health insurance being tied to full employment.
Epigenetic adaption to generational exposure to famine and food insecurity during slavery and Jim Crow Apartheid.
Blue165 t1_j4r0zq3 wrote
Being unable to access fresh food is though.
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_PM_ME_YOUR_FORESKIN t1_j4rzc4h wrote
Your post history would suggest you’re 0% interested in actually changing your views. I don’t have time or energy to change your mind - but I can at least link to a different post.
Xolver t1_j4u653e wrote
Talking about my post history is fine and dandy, but what you did is just add more anecdotes with an imaginative story in a long comment that gives zero evidence and many suppositions. I could tackle some of those suppositions by citing that black people with higher income who obviously have both higher possibility for vehicular movement or moving to a different area altogether actually have higher and not lower obesity than poor black people which are more affected by all the things you write about (and it would be true, since that is what the literature says), but you have started with a foregone conclusion and only want to discuss why it's true, instead of discussing WHETHER it's true in the first place.
But guess what, again, this is r/science, the burden of proof is on the people making these claims and not me. Notice no one is giving even one piece of evidence for the very specific question asked, only anecdotes around it. That, my friend, is a sign of a religion, not a well thought out scientific theory. And it's not just to my comment, because your next move would obviously be to say that they don't want to humor me (while humoring me, like you did).
Cheshire90 t1_j4oknx1 wrote
It's amazing how quickly we slid away from trying to improve things by following evidence and back into hand waving toward essentially religious explanations that are certain to go nowhere ("it's bad because all of society is bad").
_PM_ME_YOUR_FORESKIN t1_j4ozcj4 wrote
This assumes that social disparities can’t be studied empirically, which is not true. Divorcing science from the social contexts it finds itself is rarely wise. And your comment seems to be exactly why science that speaks to structural inequality is so needed. The average person already downplays racism and believes it’s just people complaining about nothing. We don’t need people with flimsy scientific literacy to then use it as a “racism can’t exist because how do you prove it scientifically” argument to uphold their own racist views.
SirThatsCuba t1_j4p0r3r wrote
If I had a nickel for every time I've been told by "friends" that I had been asking for the abuse people heaped on me (just by existing, but they don't understand that part of the equation) i wouldn't have financial worries.
Cheshire90 t1_j4p1roo wrote
My comment does not assume that.
Neither the study of social disparities nor of disease are helped when saying popular things that you already know is more important than taking a critical and open minded approach to figuring out what is going on. Worrying about what the average person downplays is something politicians and social activists should do; scientists should worry about what the evidence in front of them says.
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moonfox1000 t1_j4s7tgs wrote
>This assumes that social disparities can’t be studied empirically, which is not true.
I agree with this, but the explanation that racism did this is the scientific equivalent of god did it. It's a solution that gets you nowhere. A much better study would attempt to pinpoint the exact causes (air pollution, smoking rates, higher risk jobs, etc) which actually gets us somewhere. You can recognize that all these might be second order effects of racism, but we still need to know the exact cause and effect relationships in order to be able to translate that into real world actions. For example, segmenting people by both race and city/rural groups lets us study the effect of air pollution on outcomes...if that turns out to be relevant then that changes the way we think about the relationship between highway construction and high-density housing which can actually lead to an improvement.
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neoliberalismIdpol t1_j4uwavz wrote
Reduce brain aging by solving the philosophical problems inherent to social organization that the Greeks wrestled with
n3w4cc01_1nt t1_j4q6pyz wrote
racism/classism causing stress. makes people crave carbs, cigarettes, and such.
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Saladcitypig t1_j4r352s wrote
is it though?
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Aqueilas t1_j4pc297 wrote
The way I read this is, that because of socio-economic effects, black people have a different lifestyle and because of this we see the ageing occur earlier. Am I reading that correct?
Why diden't they control for variables such as average or mean income if they believe that's a spurious correlation? We know people who are more wealthy on average live longer, eat more healthy, get more exercise, read more books etc.
TomCov78 t1_j4rr3nv wrote
That’s one of the most needlessly convoluted sentences I’ve ever seen…
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GloriousSteinem t1_j4rhw87 wrote
It’s awful, isn’t it? That in this day me age this still happens.
neoliberalismIdpol t1_j4uw6m5 wrote
Amazing that we can quantify structural forces but not the mechanisms of brain aging
ShakeWeightMyDick t1_j4vtfiw wrote
I.e. “prolonged, unrelenting stress fucks your brain”
Saladcitypig t1_j4r31al wrote
Stress.
This is what it is. Stress at constant injustice, societal, structural, physical. And stress from Injustice is worse on the body then say stress from raising a baby.
It's why women live longer unmarried... no more stress, less injustice.
WailingSouls t1_j4rc7ft wrote
Press X to doubt
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Orrion_the_Kitsune_ t1_j4pj4dh wrote
Seeing the number of people who get up in arms anytime there's any data published on the disproportionate health outcomes of black people after several dozen years of Jim Crow while in a country with property taxes funding education is a trip. It's like I took LSD.
mackniffy t1_j4ptbdr wrote
Dude, this. The amount of people who practice this type of racism but will vehemently deny being racist online is astounding.
Orrion_the_Kitsune_ t1_j4pucvu wrote
"I don't hate gay people, I just disagree with their lifestyle" is basically just what they're doing, but with other minorities instead.
SuperSaiyanGod06 t1_j4sbaau wrote
Throw in some red lining and white flight and you get racism that made hitler jealous. Those folks are ignorant and at this point I feel like they rather stay that way.
truelogictrust t1_j4sk9y4 wrote
Now you get it, I don't know if I can post from you tube on reddid but that is exactly what is going on.
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moemoe7012 t1_j4tjk7a wrote
It’s very tricky being black and trying to explain systemic racism to your white friends. Is best to just not talk about and get back in the closet about the black struggle. It hurts a ton.
Orrion_the_Kitsune_ t1_j4uch41 wrote
Nah, free speech applies to you too; talk about it or nothing's gonna' change.
SuperSaiyanGod06 t1_j4sjwm0 wrote
Throw in some red lining and white flight and you get racism that made hitler jealous. Those folks are ignorant and at this point I feel like they rather stay that way.
Phalex t1_j4p7rzs wrote
No mention of Vitamin D?
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ricardo9505 t1_j4nqy3o wrote
From all that anxiety probably. Being black wasn't easy in America..
AskMoreQuestionsOk t1_j4odo1h wrote
Maybe, but first check the water. Then the air.
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_PM_ME_YOUR_FORESKIN t1_j4oze73 wrote
Wasn’t?
It still definitely isn’t.
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Commercial_Emu_9921 t1_j4petjh wrote
They are making it hard for themselves these days.
Orrion_the_Kitsune_ t1_j4pujfi wrote
"It's not our fault we have to discriminate, they're making us!"
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[deleted] t1_j4q97cv wrote
the blatant racism on display here wow
Commercial_Emu_9921 t1_j4qa0dn wrote
What part of what I said is wrong? None, they are the truth, yet you obviously do not want to accept them, why? What are you scared of? Hell? Being murdered for daring to tell the truth? Scared of being seen in lower light? What are you scared of? What is scaring you?
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TheRealDukeofEarl t1_j4ps9ww wrote
You might be racing sets if…
Commercial_Emu_9921 t1_j4psegx wrote
What’s racing sets?
Ok_Lifeguard_6508 t1_j4p70mm wrote
I can see how that's a compelling hypothesis. But by going straight to racism, you ignore other potential causes.
Capdavil t1_j4qkbha wrote
What are some other potential causes outside racism? The more I study racism the more I see how it’s really just a history of choices made to bar certain groups from accessing things. For example, housing and development discrimination lead a lot of black people to live in areas where there’s no access to grocery stores.
Ok_Lifeguard_6508 t1_j4rck57 wrote
Biological differences between ethnic groups. It's something you'd want to rule out before you start attributing everything to racism.
Here's a really simple example. My ancestors were all either Scots or Scandinavian (according to one of those DNA tests I did). Because of that I'm at high risk of melanoma. There is no socioeconomic cause for that. It's just an unfortunate biological risk.
Capdavil t1_j4rewv3 wrote
That’s a good point.
GrumpyBearBank t1_j4rnu0u wrote
Biological factors
Cultural choice factors.
They both feel icky because they both have a racist history. But you do have to consider them.
azazelcrowley t1_j4vhhoj wrote
Vitamin deficiency is a big one.
"Vitamin D deficiency may accelerate age-related cognitive decline."
"Some people may need more sun exposure because they have darker skin, which takes longer to generate vitamin D."
We already know vitamin D deficiency causes exactly this health outcome. To not control for it before declaring "Racism did it" is ridiculous.
Different skin colors didn't arise for no reason. Europeans turned white and East Asians lighter skinned because it's best suited to the environment of the northern hemisphere and the ones who didn't died early and were less fit for survival and so on.
That didn't magically stop being true when we decided the races were equal.
Black people need vitamin D supplements or to ensure their diet has steady sources of it, or to go sunbathing a few times a year, or they're going to end up with a deficiency which causes all kinds of issues including faster brain aging and cognitive decline. That is, unless they live in a sunny clime with low cloud coverage.
This study is like looking at higher skin cancer rates for white people living in africa than black people, and going "It's racism doing it.".
Oh really now. Is it.
moonfox1000 t1_j4s9n12 wrote
There are plenty of second order effects that may ultimately be caused by racism that would be beneficial to look for. For example, there are large populations of black people in rural areas like Alabama and Mississippi as well as large populations in high-density cities like New York and LA where they are much more likely to experience high levels of air pollution. There are historical reasons why black people would experience higher levels of air pollution, even amongst people living in the same city, but by segmenting the groups like that you can try to find a connection to air pollution and if that is the case, that changes out understanding of the effects of urban planning and we can make actionable changes from that. That to me sounds like a better outcome, then whipping ourselves about how bad racism is, a topic the people who care about that kind of thing are already aware of.
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Dinklemeier t1_j4q2rup wrote
Right but then if it isnt clickbait racism then reddit ignores it
D-Noch t1_j4nscm9 wrote
Probably like environmental justice outcomes - is actually kinda/almost funny: if you do the same EJ study in Canada, the magnitude of effect for Black people nose dives back to the mean. The reason is being Black is not as good a predictor of low SES in Canada as it is in the US - and relatedly, geographic sorting, even if close to as extreme by SES, does not parallel race in the same way it does in the US.
Combine perpetually poor nutrition, disproportionately positioned within concentrations of environmental hazards/pollutants, poor environment, poor educational opportunities, little to no desirable employment options, .....then, after waking up to that, ever single fkin day....spend the rest of the day trying to minimize losses while attempting to navigate systemic racism blocking every path to improving conditions - and at any point in time during losing war of attrition, you may very well be murdered by law enforcement officers waging their war of attrition on you.
Can you even fathom the cortisol production?!
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SmuckSlimer t1_j4pfjwd wrote
r/science is 90% generalizations made into "scientific" study that have nearly zero bearing on what you should do with your life and are here to push some rhetoric.
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Commercial_Emu_9921 t1_j4qc6c1 wrote
Exactly, there is no science at all in this subreddit.
slothbreeder t1_j4ot9ig wrote
Shhhhh that doesn’t push their envelope tho
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DamagedHells t1_j4p7udj wrote
"Any conclusions that hint to structural race issues are not real science!"
Ok-Guava7336 t1_j4pwryg wrote
Constant trauma will do that to you.
Commercial_Emu_9921 t1_j4qcbf3 wrote
Trauma caused by black on black.
Japansfinest21 t1_j4qxlcm wrote
Go be racist somewhere else man
WailingSouls t1_j4rcc66 wrote
Go look at data somewhere else man, this is the science sub!
Robot_Basilisk t1_j4s9e76 wrote
Only in the most obvious of cases, like homicide rates.
Guess what? These problems aren't driven by homicides. These problems aren't being driven by being jumped once or twice. These problems are being driven by a lifetime of day-in, day-out systemic biases and prejudices.
These problems are driven by food deserts, overcrowded schools, discriminatory policing and biased courts, crumbling infrastructure, polluted water, processed food, a lack of quality jobs, a lack of access to healthcare and higher education.
These problems are driven by living in communities where BIPOC don't own anything; where most businesses are owned by corporations or outsiders looking to exploit people that have been deprived of the resources necessary to defend themselves against injustice.
These problems are driven by the accumulated weight of 200+ years of these injustices piling up on the shoulders of BIPOC.
You don't get to dismiss that mountain of trauma because a few thousand frustrated people (out of millions) resort to fighting each other in their struggle to get out from under it.
Cam599 t1_j4pu1y1 wrote
Be interesting to see if the could prove some causes. They just assume some systemic racial issues which would not surprise me but it doesn’t take a lot of imagination to see other things to look at as well.
moonfox1000 t1_j4s8rx8 wrote
I mean, I don't disagree with racism being involved and all the second order effects that causes. But not looking deeper into the actual mechanism is like figuring out that the planets revolve around the sun by some magical force and then deciding that god did it and closing the book. I'm much more interested in the specifics of what racism does that causes premature aging because then that means we can actually do something actionable about it rather than adding to a list of reasons why racism is bad.
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fffyhhiurfgghh t1_j4oyk4g wrote
Black people live in poverty at much higher rates than the rest of the population. Not surprising that they tend to experience worse health outcomes.
_PM_ME_YOUR_FORESKIN t1_j4ozolk wrote
Why do they live in poverty at much higher rates than the rest of the population though?
Edit: Please take your point one step further because the reason for the poverty matters.
fffyhhiurfgghh t1_j4p03sb wrote
The Jim Crow south, redlining, no gi bill like the rest of the ww2 vets. No access to good education since school funding is tied to property taxes. In which black people used to be prevented from buying. A lot of reasons I’m sure I’m missing too.
_PM_ME_YOUR_FORESKIN t1_j4p36j8 wrote
100%.
I feel like mentioning “poverty” without mentioning 300 years of forced illiteracy, not being able to own land, having your children sold away from you, indentured servitude after enslavement, reconstruction, lynching, segregated schools, property tax based school funding, redlining, racist loan decisions, or any one of the myriad poverty inducing structures built against Black folks since 1619 fails to state it well enough. You don’t have to cite every point but “poverty” stated as if it’s in a vacuum irks me. And racism will continue as long as we keep it obscured instead of stating it explicitly.
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Commercial_Emu_9921 t1_j4qcm83 wrote
What about other migrants from Asian countries who came to America with nothing? How come they are doing FAR better? What about Jewish people who came straight from the concentration camps? How come they are doing better?
You hypothesis is obviously completely wrong.
Captain-PlantIt t1_j4rv3tr wrote
Those groups are not being discriminated against the same way. They are not systematically denied housing and jobs.
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tobleachornot t1_j4p2ko9 wrote
Wealth is passed on generationally. Tax and asset laws perpetuate that system. So if you know anything at all about the United States, you can deduce the myriad of reasons why that would create economic disadvantages for black families.
_PM_ME_YOUR_FORESKIN t1_j4p2rh5 wrote
Oh. Trust and believe I’m aware. I am just trying to get this thread’s OP to go one step further and point to a single structure that perpetuates inequality for Black people — instead of stating “living in poverty” as if it exists in a vacuum.
WailingSouls t1_j4rcmbi wrote
Fatherlessness
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Commercial_Emu_9921 t1_j4pf050 wrote
Because black people value physicality more than intellectual prowess.
mythrowawaypdx t1_j4q1ts7 wrote
Black American lady here, it would have been nice to see Native Americans here, they also face much discrimination and poverty. Obesity rates are generally high. Black men are fitter than most American men and black women are statistically only slightly larger than the average American woman (the media exaggerates this misconception). I grew up poor and remained poor until recently, and I lived in an extremely racist place.
I ate very well, was a size 2, worked out and slept well, but there is only so much you can do when you face extreme obstacles. This study should be replicated but adjust for income and then compare the results. I think racism is just part of why this is a thing, lack of money is a huge stress factor and stress literally shrinks the brain which can be permanent if the stress isn't resolved. Black people are more likely to be single and that can also affect the brain, but higher income increases the odds of a black person getting married or having a college degree for black women. Being poor is generally associated with faster aging and premature death.
HornyToad1984 t1_j4oiuui wrote
Just intense, constant, daily stress.
orthogonal123 t1_j4q259s wrote
Case closed. No need to explore the causes any further. Definitely impossible that there may be a genetic aspect to this.
HornyToad1984 t1_j4q3mpf wrote
And German Americans tend to be heavy, and we Irish tend to binge drink; what's your point? Social circumstances turn a genetic component nto an epidemic of death, disease and despair.
Those Japanese people who die of overwork at their desks, I guess they just have poor cardiovascular generics huh?
It's you who are trying to close the case with your zero-sum generic explanation.
orthogonal123 t1_j4s0fb7 wrote
I’m certainly not trying to do that. I was just taking issue with your use of the term ‘just’, which seems to imply that the entirety of the reason is due to daily stress.
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-cochise t1_j4sk8jb wrote
You should google which ethnic groups have the highest and lowest self-esteem.
conceptualrose t1_j4origy wrote
My brain read the last 4 words in underlined italicised capitals. Cannot be emphasised enough
Commercial_Emu_9921 t1_j4pewsk wrote
Do you know who abuse black people the most? Other black people.
jessa07 t1_j4ps54n wrote
It's probably all the stress of being murdered at any given time for any reason, on top of the poverty they're forced into.
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Capdavil t1_j4qk3ln wrote
I really wish they would not treat black Americans as a monolith and actually look at the individual ethnic backgrounds. Is this the same among black immigrants? Or moreso black Americans that are descendants of slaves?
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broadenandbuild t1_j4qzc7m wrote
I wonder if sugar consumption is a contributing factor
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Saladcitypig t1_j4r3ehd wrote
You guys keep talking about diet... guys, white people eat just as poorly as black people... it's Stress at injustice in all the ways it harasses and terrorizes the black community.
Sons_0f_Mars t1_j4rkfbx wrote
There is a huge African American population that lives inside cancer alley in the southern states.
You also have large populations of minorities that live near heavy industrialized commercial areas in the north, Like Flint Michigan, where policy focus favored large companies but had no considerations for emissions and infrastructure let alone social services.
ghosttrainhobo t1_j4s2ved wrote
I wonder how the aging compares across cultures when you adjust for socio-economic conditions?
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TopToe7563 t1_j4pm1zc wrote
They say we’re free only to be chained in poverty
Commercial_Emu_9921 t1_j4pv70h wrote
Why do you think that is? Your kids want to be NBA players, rappers and gangsters that’s why. How about you promote a culture where intellectual prowess is preferred and idolised like in Asian and Jewish cultures? No?
TopToe7563 t1_j4q3tmj wrote
Steroeotypes of a black male misunderstood, but it’s still all good. You ever heard of Musa Mansa?
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hiandlois t1_j4sm2ib wrote
You mean like Malcolm x?
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Juls7243 t1_j4q587v wrote
I wonder if this is related to income? To obesity? To stress.
Very complicated issue.
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strmomlyn t1_j4s0ixs wrote
Because of trauma I’m sure!
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iminstasis t1_j4rffar wrote
Drugs are bad for you. Weed is not the miracle medicine. Sorry not sorry.
aleph32 t1_j4nrdd8 wrote
https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/study-black-adults-experienced-early-signs-of-brain-aging-faster-than-other-racial-ethnic-minority-groups > “We postulate that race and ethnicity disparities in brain aging are due to lifetime cumulative exposure to structural and social forces that elevate subsequent exposure to risk factors for brain pathology,” the study authors wrote.