Submitted by Flashbulb_RI t3_11zv8td in providence
I was downtown on Tuesday at the PPL and saw several ATVs & dirt bikes speeding around. On Wednesday this happened: https://www.golocalprov.com/news/cranston-police-release-names-of-2-killed-on-dirt-bike
So senseless, 20 & 21 year old. RIP.
Looks like two of the morons doing wheelies towards oncoming cars finally got got. Can’t say I feel too bad for them. You’re 21 years old you’re a grown man and should know better.
When I was 21 years old, I was in Afghanistan on a volunteer deployment to keep Kandahar City secure. We efficiently and effectively disrupted and dismantled insurgent networks for months.
But I was still just a dumb fucking kid, because I was only 21 years old. Let's show a little empathy here. We all know their actions were dangerous to others as well as themselves, and it should be condemned. It's a problem to be solved. But they're dead kids, at the end of the day. And that sucks.
I didn’t say that it doesn’t suck that they’re dead. I just said I don’t feel too bad for them because they actively chose to try and traumatize other people and do things that were borderline suicidal. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. At least they didn’t kill or maim the driver.
It’s strange..replace “21 year old ‘youth’” with “drunk driver” and there would be little to no sympathy…
How do you sleep?
Seriously, didn’t even show sympathy for the poor driver of the SUV who has to deal with this even though they were behaving like a responsible adult.
Right. Insurance claims always end up being a part time job.
Like a baby because I don’t intentionally traumatize other people by driving recklessly into oncoming traffic. I’ve seen dudes like these in providence literally play “chicken” with oncoming traffic just to scare the drivers.
Sounds like they encountered the consequences of their actions and by doing so traumatized an innocent driver who has to live with this now.
A lot of holier than thou people here throwing stones
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Looks like the kids thinking they were playing GTA found out you didn’t magically appear outside of the hospital like in Vice City.
Sad facts, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't chuckle a little bit at this.
No. Not RIP.
Having to deal with assholes like them personally, fuck them. I hope every one of them that ride around like them thinking that the roads, where the rest of us are trying to get ourselves and families home safely, are a playground, meet a similar fate. I would like to think that this will at least be a lesson for others, but we all know nothing will change. Sorry for the person driving the vehicle.
Nothing will change until a politician or otherwise upper-class person has something happen to them. That is when the pearl clutching will begin and the cops will be allowed to track them more (though I would guess that chases will still rightfully be a no go).
Ah yes, the totally rational reaction of wishing DEATH upon people. Obviously these kids were in the wrong, but not wrong enough to be dead.
Now two are dead and one is irreparably changed.
And you want more death?
Why should I care about another life while they recklessly endanger everyone else's? If someone was running in the streets shooting aimlessly because they got a thrill from it and wanted to look cool in front of their buddies, would you not want someone to put a stop to that immediately? Driving a 200lb missile through the streets is equally dangerous, arrogant and selfish.
While both examples are reckless and dangerous, to say that riding / driving recklessly equates to firing bullets aimlessly, is naïve at best.
We have an actual instance where people are dead. It's a horrifying experience for everyone, including the families and friends of all involved.
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Maybe we should care more and try and educate and find safe, legal places to ride?
It’s called streets and operating street legal vehicles in accordance with the law. ATV’s and dirt bikes don’t belong on public streets. They are a nuisance to say the least.
Have you seen the way they ride? Have you interacted with them? Have you seen the way they interact with other drivers? Because saying we need care and to teach them to be safe is fucking naive. Do you think they don't know it's dangerous? Do you think they care? The people that do this shit are arrogant and selfish.
Tell you what, when you have an interaction with these fucks while you're out driving your kids home and they start passing you on both sides of your car, almost crashing into the back of it because they're doing a wheelie and can't see you stopped at the stop sign, revving their engines, then one of them tries taking your mirror off and screams obscenities into your window because he thinks you almost hit his friend, scaring the shit out of your children, then come back and talk to me about caring.
The results show that they were, indeed, wrong enough to be dead. Just facts.
I don't know how people got raised to adulthood with the idea that they can do anything they want, fuck man made or natural laws, and that actions have no consequences.
I don't know, man. When I was a kid with a new driver's license flying down 95 at 100mph in an old shit box, it's dumb luck that I didn't kill myself or my friends riding along. We've all done incredibly dumb things in our lives. Most of us have just been lucky to survive unscathed.
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Wow. I had Jovanni as a student 11 years ago. How absolutely awful.
Hey, many of us agree that these dirt bikes and ATVs are trash, but two young adults are dead. Plus, some random woman who did nothing wrong has to spend the rest of her life coming to terms with having been involved in two people's death. This isn't the time to be cheering or celebrating anything.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes
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I'm sure there will be a memorial set up and a bunch of the group they were inevitably involved with claiming that it isn't right and something needs to be done to protect the dirt bike riders.
Jeez guys. They’re human beings. I know you get annoyed by these guys on the roads. But a lot of these comments are borderline psychotic.
It’s hard to feel bad or be shocked when the exact thing you think is going to happen, happens.
No one is saying that you need to be 'shocked.'
Maybe just don't, you know, take time out of your day to make a big deal about how happy you are that a couple 20 year olds got killed doing something stupid.
Oh no, you confuse me. All I feel is apathy because I don’t care they died. They fucked around and found out, doing some dumb shit that wasn’t worth it.
The only thing I’m “happy” about is that the ones being stupid are the only ones who got hurt.
There are plenty of people in this discussion who have gone considerably beyond 'apathy' into being pretty damn ghoulish. Which is what the comment that you replied to pointed out.
If you're not one of them, then no one here is talking about you, beyond the fact that you apparently felt the need to pop up and defend them.
Why is it hard to feel bad. You don’t have to be shocked to feel bad
Why would I feel bad for someone suffering the incredibly predictable consequences of their actions? They chose to play a stupid game, they get to enjoy their stupid prize.
And I do feel bad. I feel bad for the person they hit and the poor sap that had to scrape them off the pavement.
If you’re asking why you should feel bad for fellow humans dying, especially at such young ages... then maybe you’re a psychopath?
In fairness, these kids did get a Darwin Award. Not sure if that makes any of these awful comments better but there’s a bright side right there for you. /s
Consider it PTSD. Tends to happen when you live in a city where borderline psychotic people think it's fine to pop a wheelie and aim their vehicle at you.
So is driving like a lunatic, endangering everyone around you.
Right, right... so reckless drivers all deserve death and we should be very happy when they die
There would be zero sympathy if these were drunk drivers.
Sad and reckless but don’t forget these kids had moms and families. RIP.
And nobody shedded a tear
I can't tell you how many videos here i see of idiots driving bikes, swerving at oncoming traffic only to swerve away at the last second..
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All i have to say is, HA HA..
I wish everyone else doing this would learn from others’ mistakes. Sadly I don’t think they’re the type to learn that way, so this might not be the last time it happens
Get a motorcycle license, take a riding course. Ride a street bike.
Unlike with the lottery, playing stupid games guarantees you will eventually win a stupid prize.
Play stupid games …
When the crash dummies get crash dummied
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Skateboarding used to be problematic when they had nowhere to skate, give them a space and magically skaters were less of a problem.
Wonder why they haven't come up with a similar solution for ATVs and dirt bikes. Legal riding spaces aren't too crazy of a concept, don't know why everyone immediately jumps to banning the sale of them.
Shit, even for things like graffiti having legal spaces to do it reduce the illegal stuff significantly.
>Wonder why they haven't come up with a similar solution for ATVs and dirt bikes. Legal riding spaces aren't too crazy of a concept,
Cool, they should start a club, buy some land, and build one. Or are you saying that taxpayers should pay to fix the problems of morons who bought toys they have no place to legally use? And let’s not even pretend that if there was a free park these mofos wouldn’t still be tearing up the streets.
>don't know why everyone immediately jumps to banning the sale of them.
Probably because they’re tired of irresponsible morons who buy them without a place to ride them and then make that everyone else’s fucking problem.
Because thats how we have dealt with other issues, right? Trinity skate park was bought by a skate club right?
Real solutions aren't just bitching about how you don't like seeing bikes and trying to ban them.
>Real solutions aren't just bitching about how you don't like seeing bikes and trying to ban them.
Real solutions are when other people pay for my hobby so I don’t make their lives miserable.
~NinjaSant4, probably.
Legal riding spots exist. Why aren’t you making the trek to Richmond?
The whole point of riding an unregistered, illegal bike on the street is the fact that you're not supposed to be on the street. Why would you want to go to some track where no one will see you? And how are you going to get there? Are you going to load your bike on a trailer that's pulled by your $75k SUV and unload it there? I don't think so.
Lol, no that isn't the point of riding them on the street. If you weren't an ignorant fuck you'd know that those bikes can be registered (and often the hordes you see have a mix of legal and illegal bikes).
Tell me again how you know better than historical fact. Skateboarding caused issues, build a park and suddenly no issue. Legal graffiti parks? Suddenly less vandalism.
Cities with spaces to ride legally don't deal with people riding in their streets lol. Please be more of a NIMBY
And - skateboarding fell out of fashion? How come skateparks are frequently filled and looking for more space???
Lie more. Just say you want to hit people on their dirt bike because you have no self control.
Correlation isn’t causation. Skateboarding popularity has been on a downward trend since the early 2000s and is pretty much at an all time low. Skateboarding isn’t an issue anymore because almost no one skates anymore.
Yes, I am an ignorant fuck and I also have a younger cousin who is one of those kids riding around on ATVs in the city. He and his friends would tell you, Oh Enlightened One, that if you built them a state of the art facility they would use it a few times and still continue to ride on the street because that's where the excitement is.
People typically aren'r riding road legal dirt bikes off road though. It's very much a one or the other type scenario.
You’re really over simplifying the process of registering them. It’s not as simple as tossing on some lights and popping down to the local DMV. They have off road VINs, off road titles, and insurance is difficult to get. It’s possible to do it if you jump through the right hoops, but it’s far from easy and not to mention the bike they were riding is a 2 stroke so there’s EPA stuff potentially to deal with as another barrier. Getting through all the paperwork to do it there’s still the matter of putting on the right parts to make these street legal which is another uphill battle. You’ll need all DOT compliant parts, a wiring harness to connect it all and someway to power everything which these bikes don’t have. There’s no room for a battery and the stator doesn’t generate enough power for lights and it’s not a stable output either amount other issues.
Yea give ‘em a pit, you paying the insurance there?
Lol, insurance for what exactly? Using state land? Or for a privately owned vehicle? Because I don't see tax payer dollars going to a magical insurance fund for boating on state lands. The individual is responsible for that.
Try harder.
You think these kids have their bikes insured?
If someone gets hurt, whoever owns the land would likely be liable.
You clearly have never gone to a state park.
Whose getting sued when you break your leg in yellowstone? Or at Lincoln state woods?
Because the state isn't, lol.
Skatepark insurance is a thing, often wrapped into a municipality’s general liability policy. Places like Yellowstone and Lincoln Woods generally ban skateboarding in large part to avoid liability issues.
>Places like Yellowstone and Lincoln Woods generally ban skateboarding in large part to avoid liability issues.
Skateboarding is 100% allowed in Lincoln Woods, what are you talking about? Not really a stellar venue for it, but it's allowed. All sorts of other potentially dangerous activities are expressly encouraged there too...mountain biking, horseback riding, pond skating, etc.
I don’t skateboard, so I don’t know which venues allow it and which don’t. It is banned in many such venues though, and if it is expressly allowed at Lincoln Woods I promise the state has liability coverage.
Getting back to the topic of the thread, why don’t these roving gangs take their bikes to Lincoln Woods?
>I don’t skateboard, so I don’t know which venues allow it and which don’t
If you don't know, then why are you here confidently spouting conjecture about it?
Because I know how liability insurance works. What is or isn't allowed at one specific venue is irrelevant to the topic of discussion.
> What is or isn't allowed at one specific venue is irrelevant to the topic of discussion.
...so why did you bring it up? Seems like an unforced error for you to share false information if it's irrelevant to anything you're saying.
I didn’t. The person I responded to did.
So it wasn't you that said "Places like Yellowstone and Lincoln Woods generally ban skateboarding". Must be something wrong with reddit then, because it's saying you did...
I said that in response to his asking what happens if you break your leg at Yellowstone or Lincoln woods. I responded that places like that generally ban such activities to avoid the liability issue. There are exceptions, but Lincoln Woods being one doesn’t change the general trend.
I stand by my assertion that these exceptions will carry insurance protecting them from liability arising from these activities.
> . I responded that places like that generally ban such activities to avoid the liability issue.
Except they don't.
> There are exceptions, but Lincoln Woods being one doesn’t change the general trend.
What's your evidence of that "general trend"? As a rule, public parks allow all nonmotorized transportation.
RI law: "No person shall operate or ride a bicycle, scooter, skate board or other operator propelled vehicle or device in any unit or portion thereof, of the Division of Parks & Recreation after the Regional Manager has made a finding that conditions are unsafe for the operation of such vehicles and has issued an order prohibiting such activity."
Meaning nonmotorized is allowed everywhere by default, and only not allowed where specifically banned.
If you have some data showing how often certain activities are specifically banned, please do share.
Seriously? You’ve never seen a “no skateboarding” sign in a public park?
I have seen those, in the minority of public parks I've been to. You are asserting that it's banned "generally", which is what I am asking you to prove out. Or are you just pulling it out of your ass and assuming that because you've seen one sign, it must be true for every public space?
No, they don't have liability insurance. It's a state park. You use it at your own discretion.
The insurance state parks carry is for negligent upkeep - a bridge collapsing, a bear that was reported dangerous being allowed to continue hanging in campground ect. It is not because someone might try to sue for getting injured.
Glad you've literally never done a physical sport because you'd know how things work. Lol.
Plenty of public dirt bike courses that are unmonitored. Show me the lawsuits. Otherwise you are full of shit.
You can start down south and work your way up. Show me the rider being injured and suing the municipality. Otherwise...looks like I know what Im talking about
>The insurance state parks carry is for negligent upkeep - a bridge collapsing, a bear that was reported dangerous being allowed to continue hanging in campground ect
This isn’t a thing. General Liability coverage, which covers losses arising out of ordinary negligence, is. The state almost certainly self-insures a large amount of any GL claim.
>It is not because someone might try to sue for getting injured.
If someone is injured and alleges the state’s negligence contributed, GL is absolutely where coverage would like, but again, the state likely pays at least the first million of any claim.
Any municipality that opens a motor cross park will need to supervise it, or they will be sued the first time two kids who have no place on bikes wreck into each other for creating a place for an inherently risky activity where that injury could occur without providing supervision. The duty the owner owes varies based on the risk. It’s one thing to leave a skate park unsupervised, but you don’t see municipal pools unsupervised - this is why.
So now someone needs to buy and develop land, and pay to staff it. And the minute the staff doesn’t kick someone out for acting like a clown and that clown wrecks into someone, they’re going to get sued for negligent supervision.
Glad you literally have no idea how the stuff you’re talking about works.
There are places all throughout New England where a person can responsibly operate OHVs. Also, several OHVs (like dirt bikes) are capable of being operated on the road with some modifications and possession of a motorcycle license and following the rules of the road.
It's the same as skateboards. You can ride a skateboard most places, but no if you want to do stunts and shit, you should do it in an environment that won't cause other people injury or property damage, like a skatepark.
We even have the big unused dunes that seem perfect for that kind of thing.
They used to be used for exactly this back in the 70's and 80's. I remember as a kid driving up 95 and specifically waiting to get to that part of the highway to watch them ride for a couple of seconds. Then someone got hurt (naturally) and they closed the land for this use. Same thing has happened at parks and hills all over the northeast for sledding- one person gets hurt, everyone suffers the consequences. Insurance companies up the cost of coverage and it just becomes cheaper for municipalities to close everything off.
Oh yeah, good analogy with sledding. I kept thinking about mountain biking which is allowed (and expressly encouraged) in a bunch of municipal parks around, and which also must have a pretty healthy injury rate too...but I guess not as high as sledding...?
Does the state actually have any liability beyond gross negligence in state parks? I guess I've just been assuming it's all at your own risk, and that I can't get the state to pay my bill if I trip while hiking and break a pinky finger.
That’s a good question and I have to believe it depends on where you are, as well as if the land is covered by a local municipality or is state owned (or even federally). I’m sure the state has a lot more leverage for covering themselves than a local municipality does, but as a hiker my understanding is that the local, state or federal government can be sued if you get hurt on their land if your injury is due to their negligence, although I have no idea how that would play out in real life (if a tree falls across the trail and you fall when trying to climb over it who’s fault is it?). That being said, I can see how making a state owned motocross area could have a lot of issues like this come up.
> That being said, I can see how making a state owned motocross area could have a lot of issues like this come up.
For sure; that will certainly ramp up the severity of both bodily and property damage.
I wonder how close to profitable a private business could be. $1 lease of that land from the state, modest amount of capital investment in track fencing, signage, clubhouse, track building/maintenance. Significant investment in security and insurance. What would someone pay, $40 for a 4-hour session? Then a clubhouse slinging $5 tall boys of Gansett after your session is over (strictly enforced) to pad the profits. It seems almost conceivable, but also, I know nothing.
Warwick?
I think they're technically mostly in West Greenwich
I am new to discussion.
Is the idea to repurpose state land in west Greenwich into dirt bike trails?
Why not just go to places like Exeter where there are dirt bike trails open to public?
That's what I was suggesting, seems like as good a use as any, it's not like the dunes next to the highway are a great place for a housing development or any industry.
The people suggesting a legal space to ride are missing the entire point.
This is urban street culture. It's rooted in defiance.
If you want to paint Black kids as inherently criminal, that's on you. That is not my opinion.
Nice twist, but it just shows a lack of understanding of urban street culture.
While riding is fun, the true thrill is the bold disobedience.
They are expressing themselves through their actions. They are essentially throwing up a huge middle finger to society.
Thank you for expanding upon your prejudice against all younger people who live in the city, really helps paint a clearer picture of your opinions
Have you ever seen the ATV people in Providence? They're not just having fun on the city streets. They're hostile and aggressive.
Your opinion is crystal clear, no need to continue explaining it
Bad look, dude. I'd suggest you google urban street culture.
Bad look....allowing you to share your opinion uncontested? Sorry, I didn't realize that's a bad thing. Next time, I'll be sure to push back on your thinly veiled racism with more vigor.
It's not an opinion. Again, do some research.
And yes, very bad look. Instead of acknowledging that you don't understand urban street culture, you call people racist.
I'm really not sure what you want from me then. Do you want me to call out your prejudice or not? You've requested it both ways now, so I'm a bit confused.
But you know what? I don't really care how you feel, I'm going to keep doing what I want. No need for you to respond.
Pretty sure calling someone a racist is a violation of reddit's TOS.
Edit: But don't worry, I'm not going to report you.
I specifically asked you not to respond. If you don't even put in the effort to do as I ask when it's so dead simple, how do you expect me to put in the effort to decipher your contradictory requests to accommodate your wishes? Or are you okay being so blatantly hypocritical that you want different rules to apply to you vs everyone else?
You are embarrassing yourself.
Dude, seriously, I thought we were past this nonsense.
You lonely tonight or something? You keep multi replying to me just trying to goad more arguing.
If you really need a friend, stop trying to pick a fight and just converse like a normal person. Or, just please buzz off unless you have something actually meaningful to say .
It's pathetic that you attack people because you can't handle being corrected.
Urban street culture isn't difficult to understand. But I'm guessing you probably live out in the sticks and have never been to Providence. Regardless, google is always available. You should use it for subjects you know nothing about.
Time to put you back on ignore.
>It's pathetic that you attack people
You don't see the irony in that phrase? Hope you find a friend so you don't need to string along inane arguments based on some imagined reality. Calling out your literal, direct prejudice "prejudice" isn't an attack, it's a fact. If you don't like that fact, then change yourself.
From the way you troll through people's histories, I would have thought you'd know enough to know what you said isn't true. Or, duh, you don't care about facts you just want to argue. Silly, I should have known that.
Good luck ignoring me, I really hope it sticks this time and you can avoid jumping into conversations you're not a part of just to argue with me.
Again, nice twist, but lashing out at me with baseless personal attacks due to your failure to understand urban street culture...well, it's not a good look.
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It sucks there's nowhere for these kids to ride in RI. We used to take ours to the sand dunes. If I was 20 and living in the city I'd probably be riding the streets too
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None of you people want any kind of solution, you're just glad to see another couple of dead black kids
Play stupid games win stupid prizes. "no, not rip they deserved it"
You're disgusting
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So help me God, if I see you sailing down Broad Street, Mister, I am firing up my jet ski and aiming for you!
If you've spent any time at all on the bay you'd have seen the exact same kind of dangers bullshit with personal watercraft
But you just came up with the silliest thing you could
Missed the point completely + shit take, that’s bingo.
I think there are better conclusions to be drawn from this whole tragedy...
Like helmets save lives, and all the gear all the time atgatt. Dress for the slide not for the ride. All that stuff that's obvious now that I'm pushing 50 but was never considered or just corny when I was 20. Nobody wore a helmet in the 90s.
OK now that the platitudes are out of the way, part of the problem is that if kids wants to ride there's no place where they can do it. It would help. One less young man riding in the street could be the difference between a life lost and a life lived
Is there, though? Because that’s literally why people ride in the streets.
America always has the most amazing counterpoints to what i think is a 100% clear dumb thing to do.
But if more offroading space would prevent people from riding with no headlights, over the limit and with no lights... Then let's do it
Is there some country that young men don't do stupid, dangerous shit because an adrenaline rush feels good and their underdeveloped minds know they're invincible?
We are one of the few states without any outlet of this type whatsoever.
The guys getting hurt riding are the same guys getting rescued when they dump personal water craft like sea doos. If they had money theyd be sky diving. If they felt particularly patriotic they'd be marines.
This is a common thread among young people and men in particular and they need an outlet for it. If there's not a safe way to chase this feeling they'll do it in unsafe ways, just like everywhere in the world since the beginning of humanity
If not riding then climbing, or surfing, or the service, or fighting, or football, or drugs, or skiing, or banging.
The difference is the dangerous shit white kids do is OK but the dangerous shit black kids do is terrible. If you're white you go to yawgoo if you're brown you ride the streets.
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Long-term, unless we're going to heavily restrict or outlaw the sale and posession of these vehicles, coming up with a place or a way for it to be done legally and safely is really going to be the only way the illegal and dangerous use goes down.
There's a ton of roadblocks to getting to something like that happening and nothings foolproof, but I don't think we're going to magically make ATVs disappear without trying to tackle the problem that way.
Yes that's exactly what I'm talking about! We don't have a mx track or anything for young men living in a difficult time who are looking for a dopamine and adrenaline rush
It's not like you'll ever stop young men from doing dangerous stupid shit so maybe we don't have to be the only state where you can't do a little off roading on a bike
If there was a place where you could ride but HAD to wear a helmet and back armor then fewer people would be hurt and killed. Including the people who catch an ass whooping because they happened to be driving their car near these kids
There's no downside and it's stupid that it's not available
Even a program where you can ride them on streets with certain safety gear and obeying traffic laws and what not would help too. Enforcement based approaches will only go so far and we've already seen it backfire multiple times.
There's not nearly as much fun in that. Part of the appeal is that it's dangerous outlaw tough guy stuff.
I'm an adult and there's guys in every group who push the limits and do dumb shit on an otherwise legal ride. Speeding and wheelies and weaving
Let em do it in the dirt and make them wear all the gear and do badass outlaw stuff somewhere there's no civilians and an ambulance nearby
It couldn't hurt
I'm really passionate about this idea because this 100% could have been me and will probably be my kids if I don't give them an outlet
I have a shitty beater bike I let the kids at work learn on in the parking lot at work. I bet all of them go and do something retarded when they get their own bike, have a bad accident like all of us do, and then get a full dresser old man bike when it's out of their system
Alternately try nutting up and doing what people who like to play with guns do. Start a club, buy some land, and make and take ownership of a place where you can do your dangerous shit without hurting people just trying to get through the day. Imagine if gun owners were just setting up target practice in the streets because “there’s no place to go.”
Shit there’s a place open in Richmond now, but you gotta pay $40 and not be an asshole - probably too much to ask of these fine folks.
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It's only urban culture because they have names your can't pronounce
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RandomChurn t1_jdembw3 wrote
"The motorcycle was a 2023 Yamaha YZ125 and was not equipped with any headlights or emergency equipment.
"Neither Delgiudice nor Valdera were wearing helmets or had a motorcycle license. Two eyewitnesses who were also driving northbound stated the motorcycle was at a high rate of speed passing them on left illegally and driving at oncoming traffic. Witnesses also noted that the motorcycle had no lights and visibility of the motorcycle was poor."
RIP, kids.