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MaxTheAlmighty t1_itp2975 wrote

Reply to comment by SovArya in /r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | October 24, 2022 by BernardJOrtcutt

In my opinion, to become more self-aware and achieve free will, we have to sometimes change our routine and focus on our self-improvement and interests. For example: why would you always wear that clothing while you can buy other ones? Why do you always use the same browser while there are other options aviable? Why do you always eat the same meals while you can try new foods?

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SovArya t1_itp2gi3 wrote

To sharpen the blade. I think you are not wrong.

Feels like a combination of conscious act and automatic acts working with each other and doing their part when needed.

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MaxTheAlmighty t1_itp2jw2 wrote

Now i want to know your opinion about my discussion.

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SovArya t1_itp2p4l wrote

My guess is it's like this.

We exert will when we stop something. So when you buy x, and decide not to do it; will exercised. By those circumstances you decided to buy something new, that part may be a bit fully conscious act since it was fueled by the previous. It could be a combination.

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MaxTheAlmighty t1_itp35je wrote

Yeah, It could be. But i am sure that humans are not walking random generators: if free will isnt real, then we would see people randomly running pointlessly naked across the woods and doing pure nonsense.

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SovArya t1_itp3p95 wrote

I think you're not wrong in this. Can you link it to the idea of sonder? Because I for one can only perceive based on my own self.

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MaxTheAlmighty t1_itp4gak wrote

Mine too. I mean, i can't really know if you are a robot, an ai, an alien, a human or someone else.

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SovArya t1_itp4inm wrote

It sucks knowing that is not wrong. Hehe.

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MaxTheAlmighty t1_itp4mor wrote

And i can't really know if i am an evil clinically insane criminal that Is actually living an illusion and Is in reality making mafia business or terrorism, right?

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MaxTheAlmighty t1_itp9643 wrote

I came to the conclusion that our brain Is similar to the holy Roman empire: each part of the brain vaguely recognizes the power of the mind (the mind only directly controls a small part of the brain), but a big part of the brain Is actually highly indipendent.

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SovArya t1_itpfcc2 wrote

Not wrong. I guess the brain also does all things we know are automatic, heart, breathing, blood flow, etc., Organs. And the part where we try to exert our conscious behavior is left for the dependent one.

Because chemicals interact causing us to do stuff, and we act a few seconds later and all we perceive in a way as present is really the past.

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MaxTheAlmighty t1_itp4irg wrote

I noticed that my concept of a human without free will is similar to the story of Prometheus

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SovArya t1_itp4n87 wrote

A higher being molding us?

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MaxTheAlmighty t1_itp4oxn wrote

I mean, the concept that before acheiving reason and knowledge humans were just AI

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SovArya t1_itpfrgu wrote

Not wrong. I think what separates use from AI is the ability to imagine and act on those. The ability to think; therefore I am.

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MaxTheAlmighty t1_itpudd9 wrote

But someone would say that dall-e can do that too. In reality, that AI program just smashes pictures from the internet together.

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SovArya t1_itpxjeq wrote

Yes, they can mimic, but that will always be based on existing data. The thinking part would be to create something new.

If we can program something that can imagine, then truly, all that we are has been passed.

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MaxTheAlmighty t1_itpxpn4 wrote

But when we humans create something new, we use real life existing objects . For example, you cannot think of a color your eyes can't see.

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SovArya t1_itpz9su wrote

This is where experiments come into play. For which can be programmed into something. But the ability to make iterations will be the test.

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MaxTheAlmighty t1_itpzs56 wrote

After making this discussion, i started to become a bit sad: since a lot of humans have or never realized that their actions aren't fully conscious, does it mean that they are no different from machines? Does It mean that real humans are very rare? Since children often act impulsively and almost randomly, are they still humans? I don't like the idea of humans being for the most part aleatory slaves, people who have no choice but to serve a dice...

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MaxTheAlmighty t1_itpgfyb wrote

I was saying that also calculators can do that, but calculators in reality work on a "if this combination, then do this" system, unlike humans.

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SovArya t1_itpgu03 wrote

Yes, the ability to be in specific, to imagine.

If I make a mimic - like human. It must be programmed to do auto random stuffs. I think by so many iterations it can make human like results. But not like humans.

If then else for the functions. Then random act or crunching knowledge to make something new.

Creativity, probably is the highest for our level.

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