Submitted by BernardJOrtcutt t3_ycc1f1 in philosophy
SovArya t1_itp2p4l wrote
Reply to comment by MaxTheAlmighty in /r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | October 24, 2022 by BernardJOrtcutt
My guess is it's like this.
We exert will when we stop something. So when you buy x, and decide not to do it; will exercised. By those circumstances you decided to buy something new, that part may be a bit fully conscious act since it was fueled by the previous. It could be a combination.
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itp35je wrote
Yeah, It could be. But i am sure that humans are not walking random generators: if free will isnt real, then we would see people randomly running pointlessly naked across the woods and doing pure nonsense.
SovArya t1_itp3p95 wrote
I think you're not wrong in this. Can you link it to the idea of sonder? Because I for one can only perceive based on my own self.
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itp4gak wrote
Mine too. I mean, i can't really know if you are a robot, an ai, an alien, a human or someone else.
SovArya t1_itp4inm wrote
It sucks knowing that is not wrong. Hehe.
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itp4mor wrote
And i can't really know if i am an evil clinically insane criminal that Is actually living an illusion and Is in reality making mafia business or terrorism, right?
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itp9643 wrote
I came to the conclusion that our brain Is similar to the holy Roman empire: each part of the brain vaguely recognizes the power of the mind (the mind only directly controls a small part of the brain), but a big part of the brain Is actually highly indipendent.
SovArya t1_itpfcc2 wrote
Not wrong. I guess the brain also does all things we know are automatic, heart, breathing, blood flow, etc., Organs. And the part where we try to exert our conscious behavior is left for the dependent one.
Because chemicals interact causing us to do stuff, and we act a few seconds later and all we perceive in a way as present is really the past.
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itp4irg wrote
I noticed that my concept of a human without free will is similar to the story of Prometheus
SovArya t1_itp4n87 wrote
A higher being molding us?
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itp4oxn wrote
I mean, the concept that before acheiving reason and knowledge humans were just AI
SovArya t1_itpfrgu wrote
Not wrong. I think what separates use from AI is the ability to imagine and act on those. The ability to think; therefore I am.
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itpudd9 wrote
But someone would say that dall-e can do that too. In reality, that AI program just smashes pictures from the internet together.
SovArya t1_itpxjeq wrote
Yes, they can mimic, but that will always be based on existing data. The thinking part would be to create something new.
If we can program something that can imagine, then truly, all that we are has been passed.
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itpxpn4 wrote
But when we humans create something new, we use real life existing objects . For example, you cannot think of a color your eyes can't see.
SovArya t1_itpz9su wrote
This is where experiments come into play. For which can be programmed into something. But the ability to make iterations will be the test.
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itpzs56 wrote
After making this discussion, i started to become a bit sad: since a lot of humans have or never realized that their actions aren't fully conscious, does it mean that they are no different from machines? Does It mean that real humans are very rare? Since children often act impulsively and almost randomly, are they still humans? I don't like the idea of humans being for the most part aleatory slaves, people who have no choice but to serve a dice...
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itpgfyb wrote
I was saying that also calculators can do that, but calculators in reality work on a "if this combination, then do this" system, unlike humans.
SovArya t1_itpgu03 wrote
Yes, the ability to be in specific, to imagine.
If I make a mimic - like human. It must be programmed to do auto random stuffs. I think by so many iterations it can make human like results. But not like humans.
If then else for the functions. Then random act or crunching knowledge to make something new.
Creativity, probably is the highest for our level.
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