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Away_Swimming_5757 t1_jacoq4c wrote

11.5 acre park, leading right into all the northern waterfront developments that are emerging and all the recently rennovated and recently established fun of Spruce Harbor park, leading directly into Olde City and Market St is going to be such an awesome change. Night time along the waterfront is going to way more dynamic.

EDIT:

Here is a comment I made previously that adds more perspective into what the delaware ave projects are shaping up to be:

Delaware Ave and the waterfront are going to be very different by the end of this decade. Here's other in-progress or planned things, starting from North and moving southward:

Graffiti Pier Park

Northbank Phase 2 (Phase 1 is nearly complete with over 150 homes already lived within)

PECO Substation next to Penn Treaty Park turned into residential units

The site next to the casino

The site across from Club ROAR and the brewery right before Spring Garden

The old festival pier location having 1,300+ units and a waterfront park

The two projects across from festival pier's former site also making steady progress

The capping of I-95 and the 11.5 acre park being built upon it to replace Penn's Landing

All of this waterfront will be connected by the recently rennovated Delaware River Trail (which will extends through Northbank and into Graffiti Pier and may even extend further north as time goes on)

Spruce Harbor park enhancements

The site that is the 1-story Comcast facility is being sold and turned into some type of dense project

The Giant just finished construction in S Columbus

There's supposed to be some type of South Philly version of Northbank proposed for that area near the Walmart trail as well

^ That's a lot of foot traffic from over 3,000 new households alone, not to mention the attract it will draw from nearby Spring Garden, Fishtown (and the American Ave cooridoor that is massively building up, Northern Liberties and Olde City and disposable income being injected into the waterfront. We may see a whole new comercial cooridoor full of things to do at night time, more walkability/ quality of life improvements, more recreational open public spaces and new night life scenes. This will be a major tourism hub and will generate a lot of tax revenue and will be a key part of "things to do in philly".

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Rotaryknight t1_jacyj4q wrote

I can already see any fireworks event at the water front are gonna be awesome already from the park

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Edison_Ruggles t1_jadjex5 wrote

Heck yeah. Lets use that rail line as a new waterfront trolly

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Firm_Airport2816 t1_jadk07i wrote

That'd be cool, but pretty sure it's still considered an active rail and owned by CSX (Not 100% sure...but I've read this before)

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pookypocky t1_jadtsxh wrote

They used to run a trolley on at least the north end of it back in the day, hopefully they can do it again.

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TheArchitect_7 t1_jad1jjc wrote

I love your sentiment and hate that "dynamic and nightlife" kinda freak me out these days.

C'mon New Mayor. Let's get this ship righted ffs.

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themightychris t1_jaeniio wrote

The DWRC site's master plan page has a lot of great information about current and upcoming projects: https://www.delawareriverwaterfront.com/planning

The South Wetlands Park is what I'm most excited about: https://www.delawareriverwaterfront.com/planning/projects3/south-wetlands-park-project

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Away_Swimming_5757 t1_jaew70q wrote

Those piers behind the Walmart are going to be a game changer. Can’t wait to hang out there when it’s complete and possibly even kayak

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electric_creamsicle t1_jae9393 wrote

> The site next to the casino

What site is this? Are you talking about Penn Treaty Park and Northbank or something else?

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Away_Swimming_5757 t1_jae9k08 wrote

There's a building between Penn Treaty Park and on the northern side of the casino. It was in a weird financial limbo for a few years, then it magically burnt down and has been just the early stage concrete foundation/ supporting structures remaining, but it was purchased by a new developer in 2022 and there is some plan to make some type of density-style development on that lot (I think it was like 190 units or something)... there is also another development right on the southern side of the casino that I think is recently broke ground as well. South, north and across the street from the Casino are a handful of projects currently going up or soon to begin going up.

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electric_creamsicle t1_jae9yw7 wrote

Oh that's great news. Now here's to hoping they cap 95 up there too so it doesn't feel like a wasteland in the couple of blocks between Girard and Delaware Ave.

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Away_Swimming_5757 t1_jaec8do wrote

It will be unlikely to see much capping of 95 around that side since the 95 is at the roof height of the surrounding neighborhood, but they did a bunch of rennovations under the 95 which is technically a "walking trail". I've walked it dozens of times since it finished a few months ago and its actually pretty nice during the day, but at night time its pretty uncomfortable and doesn't feel safe (although there is a lot of lighting which is a major enhancement). Right across the street there is a construction material warehouse that is up for sale (according to the sign above it) and directly behind it is the entire Northbank Phase 1 construction site (nearly complete) which just started up phase 2. Once phase 2 completes and the streets are paved, the Delaware River Trail from Penn Treaty via Dyott St (the road full of potholes immediately north of Penn Treaty) into Northbank and directly onto Graffitti Pier's trail (which is planned to be a managed park).

If you haven't been back in Northbank, go take a walk and see how much has changed. The entire phase 1 waterfront section is publicly accessible and has a great view. It's shaping up really nice

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BigBrownDownTown t1_jaenzbf wrote

Don't call the secret little pocket neighborhood a wasteland - they're over there enjoying relatively easy parking and going to Murph's for italian food

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electric_creamsicle t1_jaev4ck wrote

I live 2 blocks on the other side of Girard. Walk down to Other Half/the Filmore plenty. Once you get a block away from under 95 and the el it's nice in all directions but under both of those is not great.

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Sigma_Noodle t1_jadj5t8 wrote

I live by the 1 story Comcast building and am interested to know what it will be. What is meant when you say “dense project”?

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Away_Swimming_5757 t1_jadk5qd wrote

I forget where I read it about the status of that building (its owned by Comcast), but this is what's going up next to it which is bring major density to that corner. The development on the comcast lot is after this first one gets built

https://www.rising.realestate/855-units-retail-planned-in-south-philly-on-the-delaware-river/

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Sigma_Noodle t1_jadpw9o wrote

Thanks for the link! I’d love it if some retail space around here because it feels like Pennsport is all residential

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Phl_worldwide t1_jaclk7k wrote

Amazing news. I went to Montreal last summer and their riverfront was a lot like ours, but it was bustling and mainly because it was easy to walk from the old city to the river. I look forward to this being done!

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ThisHatRightHere t1_jacsmru wrote

I still remember the first few times I was in Old City trying to figure out how the hell to get down towards the river lol

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RoughRhinos t1_jact2zp wrote

At least if zombies happen there's already a decent wall.

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petedogg t1_jad1fj6 wrote

US cities should just copy everything Montreal is doing. Especially what they do with summer festivals! Close off the entire parkway to car traffic for free festivals all summer.

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RainbowCrown71 t1_jae1mfw wrote

Montreal just copied the Chicago playbook, including on summer festivals.

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petedogg t1_jaevowx wrote

They’re both good! I grew up in Chicago and while I enjoyed Taste of Chicago and the Air and Water Show, there’s a different vibe to Montreal’s festivals. Also what Montreal’s done with making outdoor dining (known as terrasses there) a part of their culture along with transforming their streets to be far less car oriented are things Chicago hasn’t done as much that we should do here in Philly.

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rawdealbuffy t1_jacybf8 wrote

Interesting observation. I guess there is a lot of overlap. Montrealers avoid the Vieux Port like the plague but it is nice to walk around in as a visitor. I guess the main difference is this will actually be useful to residents but mainly those that can afford to live in the new developments.

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malcolm_miller t1_jad63s4 wrote

I am very excited about the idea of this. Super excited! I would love to see an ice cream spot there!

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hdhcnsnd t1_jacl9rg wrote

Great news. Now cap the rest lol.

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secretlypooping t1_jaco9gb wrote

yeah, here's hoping this project is a success and at least within reasonable margins of time and expense to serve as a blueprint for how to cap more and more sections of 95 and 676.

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BKachur t1_jacp9gl wrote

Yea, knowing Philly I expect to be dead before this is finished lol.

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Blewedup t1_jactliv wrote

philly was here well before you were born and will be here well after you're dead. no excuse not to build it anyway.

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BKachur t1_jacywfi wrote

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the project and always felt like Penns landing had a lot of wasted potential. Just more a comment on how abysmally long it takes the city to finish any project. Felt like city hall was under construction for a continuous decade.

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mbash013 t1_jad89xj wrote

Oh man. A vine st expressway cap would be awesome. After living in Boston post big-dig (I know this was an engineering nightmare for everyone involved while it happened) the green space that it created was awesome. Over a mile of unique parks in a nice long green space that allowed for an enjoyable walk through that portion of the city.

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electric_creamsicle t1_jae9d74 wrote

Now if only they just shutdown Storrow Drive and you didn't have to find an overpass to get to that green space...

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Pattern_Is_Movement t1_jacxvci wrote

Oh it absolutely will be a huge success when it is built.

A park along 676 would be amazing and transform the city as well.

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rileybgone t1_jaeah86 wrote

Or just capping it with housing. Either way would be great

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mustang__1 t1_jacw0g6 wrote

All the way to florida? Seems expensive.

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kilometr t1_jaelg48 wrote

And up to Maine too. Can’t forget the other direction

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courageous_liquid t1_jacmvuf wrote

I think I did the data collection and analysis for rerouting traffic during staging/construction like 6 years ago at this point. This project is massive because it touches 95 and people don't realize it.

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MongolianCluster t1_jacoy2u wrote

I did an analysis this morning. My results are: It's gonna suck."

But it's worth it.

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Blewedup t1_jact5a2 wrote

i hope it's a step towards burying the whole damn thing, ala the big dig in boston.

everyone complained about the pain of construction, the cost, etc. but the results are permanent and the benefits will last a hundred years.

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estellato12 t1_jad11un wrote

wait a minute my coworkers have looked into the TCP for this... that is all pretty cool! i am only an intern so i don;t know much though

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SmileFirstThenSpeak t1_jacom3s wrote

What are people not realizing?

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courageous_liquid t1_jacooqa wrote

Every time there's an update on this people are like "just fuckin build it already" as if it's not a major infrastructure project.

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SmileFirstThenSpeak t1_jacoulh wrote

I doubt anyone thinks it's as simple as building LEGO.

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courageous_liquid t1_jacq31f wrote

I'd go find some examples but I'm lazy. If you look at all the other threads there's a lot of very flippant impatience.

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ThisHatRightHere t1_jacsrrb wrote

The key is to not take people posting shit online too seriously.

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courageous_liquid t1_jact2lg wrote

Eh, it often mirrors public sentiment. There's a major disconnect between the speed at which people think things can happen and the speed at which they do happen, especially with young people.

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DrJawn t1_jacowtm wrote

lotta armchair civil engineers up in here

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USSBigBooty t1_jaefee4 wrote

I'm bidding for the contract. I propose to build it entirely out of douglas fur 2x4's. I can have it done in 3-4 weeks depending on the nations available supply of contractors, redbull, strippers and cocaine.

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Blewedup t1_jactely wrote

i know it's a big project, which is why i say just build it already. i've seen too many big projects explode in cost as they sit and wait, if only due to inflation. political changes come and projects die.

just build it already. and i'm saying that because of the complexity, not because i don't understand the complexity.

i'd rather have something that is five years overschedule and billions over cost but is eventually complete than nothing at all.

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DoctorSteve t1_jadfpit wrote

None of us are getting younger. This project might take a decade to finish. I want every project to start construction sooner so I have more time to enjoy it.

No one should want to delay construction on anything. Delaying just means it can be cancelled or never constructed. The rapid, rapid development in the suburbs means houses are being built faster than infrastructure can be built out. There's no room for more highways, train avenues, or even freaking grid planning. Just buy whatever land you can and put townhouses on it.

My rant is - we need stronger construction control from the government and a larger, more active infrastructure plan. We need to start spending billions on our roads. The 476 to 95 expansion plan needs to begin today as well.

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mustang__1 t1_jacvwrl wrote

I can see the future.... I can see me.... working from home a lot more.

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TwoTimeTommyTwoCups t1_jadc9p9 wrote

probably close 95 at the Walt - I-676 and have people either take NJ-676 to Ben Franklin or 76 to the Vine

EDIT. since some people don't understand basic highway construction... This would be overnight only.

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courageous_liquid t1_jadermj wrote

As far as I remember there wouldn't be total closure, which would be a nightmare.

Maybe temporarily overnight.

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TwoTimeTommyTwoCups t1_jadf57o wrote

Correct. Overnight only. 10p-6a. it's like a reverse version of when they would close down 676 overnights to take out the overhead supports

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avo_cado t1_jacl3tw wrote

Oh baby

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fushiao t1_jacykow wrote

You take that, gets some contractors and some long term economic benefits, baby you got a stew goin!

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BearBong t1_jaejm7n wrote

Hijacking top comment here to share the Traffic Pattern Changes custom Google Map that I made when this news hit last Spring. I couldn't find any article that showed it on a damn map.

Here's the article that I referenced (and second) for the traffic info.

Unsure if these are still the planned routing but figured I'd share bc I was looking at buying a place and wondered what streets would get extra traffic. But here I sit in my rented spot, hoping this is of value to other Philly fam

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Cinnamon_Flavored t1_jacnh6o wrote

This project is going to be a mess.

Source: Guy who was pricing up major portions of this project.

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pasnow t1_jacpgqj wrote

In terms of road closure, wasn't 676 not shut down for too long? Mostly overnights, or am I wrong on that.

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avo_cado t1_jacosbl wrote

Why?

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danmyoo t1_jacp0zr wrote

If I had to guess, bad budget, bad design, lot of unforeseen issues to arise during the process.

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all4whatnot t1_jacpsvg wrote

Graft. Lots of it.

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avo_cado t1_jacynwm wrote

By graft do you mean the profit margins of private contractors?

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mister_pringle t1_jada1gi wrote

Probably means the kickbacks the contractors give so they can get favorable contracts covering cost overruns.
Philly isn't really known for running a tight ship fiscally.

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squidsquad t1_jadbk28 wrote

So true. We should just never build any new infrastructure again

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bierdimpfe t1_jacwli9 wrote

We'll break ground right before the world cup, all star game, and 250th

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jedilips t1_jacsd9k wrote

It will take 5 years to finish this, then another 5 to fix the shoddy work the construction teams do because why do it right first time when the city is more than willing to pay you to do it twice?

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squidsquad t1_jadbmwq wrote

You’re right, we should never attempt to build any new things ever.

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evolighten t1_jacq0cd wrote

How long do we think a project like this will take?

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Throwaway4philly1 t1_jadam4c wrote

Based on other i-95 projects this will take 4 generations at the least.

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nihility101 t1_jadvrss wrote

Hey, did they ever finish the Girard Ave section?

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go_berds t1_jadrz9v wrote

If my currently nonexistent kids get to see this by the time they’re in their mid 20s I’ll be fucking shocked

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Plomo_Lobo t1_jadnjbs wrote

Me and a couple of guys can have it done by lunch tomorrow.

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Sybertron t1_jad1scp wrote

Finally, now do all of 676

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bit99 t1_jadjd71 wrote

if they do ALL of 676 technically that's a tunnel and much higher standard of build than a cap. They have to leave gaps in between for airflow etc for it to be a cap. But yeah. Do that.

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AlanTrebek t1_jacxtea wrote

I still don’t believe it.

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MonteCristo_nomayo t1_jacn99j wrote

Perpetual construction. I’m sure this is going to take at least a decade

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Yolo_420_69 t1_jacwsmq wrote

Fucking finally. Only downside is more mysterious drips on your car on 95. For us motorcyclist.... Ew

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vmtyler t1_jad77wc wrote

This is better than what’s there now but the real solution is to take the highway out completely.

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rileybgone t1_jaeb04c wrote

Fr route 95 through jersey where it belongs and remove 676 entirely. Expand patco service to west philly to compensate

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all4whatnot t1_jacsysg wrote

Does Old City sit much higher in elevation than Penn's Landing? I guess they'll have to terrace or make these parks sloped somehow to connect everything up.

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Blewedup t1_jactu68 wrote

old cities tend to grow higher, because over the years they just build on top of old stuff. it's why you can find entire neighborhoods underground in modern rome.

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a-german-muffin t1_jacyga3 wrote

Old City's built on top of the cliff on the edge of the floodplain for the Delaware, though (as is pretty much everything from Front Street on west up and down the river).

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all4whatnot t1_jaddvd3 wrote

So this is the answer. Most people don't know (because we're not 300 years old) but that's how the city originally looked along the waterfront. This project has been simply billed as "putting a roof on I-95" for a while, but there's still the matter of making a nice seamless connection between the city and the waterfront. Or else the project is a waste.

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Leviathant t1_jaenj01 wrote

Yeah, every few blocks along Front street, there used to be stairs to the waterfront. There's only one remaining set between Vine and Callowhill Streets. Now there's a highway.

Callowhill's where the 'cliffs' kind of evened out, and that street sits 16 feet above sea level.

Lots more detail at Hidden City

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ACY0422 t1_jadv6tm wrote

In early 70s Frank Rizzo as mayor had the cover removed from the I-95 design because the fresh air system to feed 95 was going to a million dollars to maintain each year. So in 2023 dollars that is about $3 million. I don’t see any mention of fresh air in this proposal

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DoctorSteve t1_jadgak4 wrote

That cap looks too small. Make it bigger.

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Edison_Ruggles t1_jadj8n6 wrote

Hell yes. Now do the rest of it and 676!

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Pfizer-Gang t1_jadoy4a wrote

When this is done, we move onto capping the vine street expressway!

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Grumpicake t1_jae08q7 wrote

Meanwhile PennDOT in Harrisburg. “What if we tolled people to cross every major bridge?” Please end my suffering 🙃

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Papancasudani t1_jaepk0w wrote

Because I love to inhale the exhaust of an interstate highway while frolicking in the park.

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GooFoYouPal t1_jactzfg wrote

2031 - Mayor Gym presents Equity Park at the Waterfront.

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a_stone_throne t1_jadr480 wrote

Gee if only we had 10 square miles if unkept parks already existing In The city. With trolly tracks already laid. Imagine that.

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mlefever126 t1_jae2dmo wrote

We can build a new park while also improving the ones we have, these aren't mutually exclusive.

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a_stone_throne t1_jaf3bem wrote

They are tho. Fair mount park has rotted to nothing. Hope this doesn’t become Phillys Central Park or the new fairmount in 50 years.

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BigShawn424 t1_jae2b65 wrote

Btw this means the 4 bus routes that layover at penns landing will now has nowhere to go and will likely be cut at 5th and market or something.

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tito1490 t1_jad7oxg wrote

Where exactly (between what E/W streets) is this planned for? EDIT: CBS Reporting Chestnut to Walnut. I was hoping it would extend to Market.

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defpoints t1_jadjyaj wrote

This spans between Chestnut and Walnut Streets, Front Street to the river.

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tito1490 t1_jaf1ga5 wrote

It looks a lot wider than one block, no?

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defpoints t1_jaf2796 wrote

i guess it's technically two blocks if you count sansom st in between.

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Finger_Gunnz t1_jaenwy4 wrote

Can we fully finish 95 around Cottman exit before we fuck around on another stretch of it?

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I_divided_by_0- t1_jaeu7l6 wrote

Good bye ice skating rink I suppose.

But worth it IMO

Unless the graphic is wrong, they are showing Pier 3 and Pier 5 as high rises.

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pleeplious t1_jadtlsu wrote

Can we fix out police first?

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linkdudesmash t1_jad9b69 wrote

From a security aspect this is a horrible idea

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Away_Swimming_5757 t1_jaddkex wrote

What do you mean?

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linkdudesmash t1_jaddy28 wrote

Easy soft target. 18 wheeler driving underneath boom.

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DavidLieberMintz t1_jadr4cp wrote

So? That could happen anywhere. You could die tonight in a car wreck. Just live your life the best you can while you can.

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