Submitted by WatchesAndNYC t3_1251xg4 in nyc
Comments
switch8000 t1_je2l9v8 wrote
Shop till you drop.
anonyuser415 t1_je3i83n wrote
how to tell you do not have a person with a disability in your architectural firm
NCreature t1_je3tjzl wrote
Not at all the case. Architecture firms live and die by ADA guidelines. Those are hefty lawsuits if you design something not compliant. Fines can be in the millions. If there's nowhere to sit it's because the client, in this case the stakeholders on this project mandated it. Architects don't get to decide stuff like that.
doctor_van_n0strand t1_je4n7mf wrote
Yeah no. Architect here. ADA compliance is taken incredibly seriously. Oh, and it’s also the law. And it’s also a decent amount of what you get tested on for licensure. Seating availability though is not ADA regulated.
As NCreature mentioned, the lack of benches probably resulted from a conversation like this:
Architect: “we’re proposing seating along the main concourse” Client: “is it required? Is it ADA?” Architect: “No. Legally it’s not required and it’s not an ADA requirement, but as a major public space—“ Client: “Yeah no. Homeless people could sleep on them and scare away shoppers and ruin our image. We need those benches gone.”
fldsmdfrv2 t1_je54hqr wrote
That will not stop the homeless from sleeping where ever they want. Certainly hasn't stopped them now.
[deleted] t1_je4sojr wrote
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[deleted] t1_je5qnte wrote
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capt_jazz t1_je4jc2z wrote
Lol making sure the building meets ADA and life safety requirements is like 30% of a contemporary architect's job. I'm only kinda joking.....
The ADA details are often the first sheet on the drawing set after the title page, followed by egress path diagrams.
idontlikeanyofyou t1_je4mt2h wrote
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Grand Central's main hall doesn't have benches. Aren't train stations supposed to be places where people are in motion (going in or out), and not necessarily hanging around? I get waiting for a train, but there's lounges for that.
brianvan t1_je4wyc9 wrote
Historically those main halls were nothing but benches for people waiting for trains to pull in / tracks to be announced. Including GCT
Pulling all the benches out (and designing for NO sitting space at all) is a fairly recent thing
iStealyournewspapers t1_je50yqs wrote
For as long as I can remember going to Grand Central (30ish years) there have never been benches in the main hall. Only place to ever sit would be downstairs in the food area, or the restaurants upstairs.
_allycat t1_je588xv wrote
Good example of the older waiting area style is Hoboken Terminal.
Tall-Ad5755 t1_jecob7k wrote
30th street in Phillys main hall is still full of benches…surprisingly not filled with homeless either.
idontlikeanyofyou t1_je51ri8 wrote
I'm not sure about that. Here's that famous light picture
https://www.history.com/.amp/news/grand-central-terminal-facts
There's too many people coming and going to have benches in the way.
brianvan t1_je57thp wrote
GCT is so big that it had adjoining rooms for benches that were nearly as big as the main hall.
The old Penn Station was the same. It had numerous large rooms; one of them was a waiting hall that was not photographed as much as the entrance and concourse rooms.
In other stations and terminals, such as 30th Street Philadelphia and Hoboken, there are many benches in the main halls.
idontlikeanyofyou t1_je5dubt wrote
Fair, but the rendering pic only shows one room. Additionally, id think that train travel has changed quite a bit in the last 60 years. It uses to be the way one got to different cities, now Penn is mostly serving commuters. Amtrak does have a sitting area.
brianvan t1_je5f3ds wrote
Amtrak's sitting area is distant from where they ask you to line up for the trains, which starts more than an hour before departure (like airport gate lice). It means you are forced to stand or forced to take really unhappy seat choices on the trains.
Airport gates have seating areas!
The problem is, it's now policy to not have benches in transportation facilities. They do not want to have to move homeless people off of them, because there are now tens of thousands of documented homeless people in the city every night & the shelters are terribly unsafe and overcrowded. So they've removed or altered benches in the subways, they close parks, they've taken benches off the sidewalks, and now they build new train stations (notably Moynihan and WTC) that have nowhere to sit at all, except for the tiny disconnected far-from-platforms Amtrak waiting area you mentioned.
People are mentioning it because sometimes they WOULD like to sit, and commuters are sometimes waiting 1-2 hours for their next train when it's off-peak service. (e.g. the weekend trains on Metro North past Croton and White Plains are hourly, and some destinations have even less frequent service) And these people tend to have luggage and don't want to arrive early and stand around with it. This isn't a bizarre hypothetical.
down_up__left_right t1_je6v3ct wrote
>now Penn is mostly serving commuters.
Go to Penn Station at about 9 pm tonight and you'll see those some of those commuters sitting on the floors as they wait almost an hour for the next train on their line.
down_up__left_right t1_je53hl5 wrote
>Aren't train stations supposed to be places where people are in motion (going in or out), and not necessarily hanging around?
With the headways on some routes if you miss your train off peak it can be an hour or more until the next one.
>I get waiting for a train, but there's lounges for that.
Penn Station has a lounge for Amtrak customers not for NJ Transit and LIRR riders.
izzo444 t1_je8dfau wrote
theres a lounge at moynihan
down_up__left_right t1_je8hkfc wrote
> Penn station[/Moynihan] has a lounge for Amtrak customers not for NJ Transit and LIRR riders.
thebruns t1_jeam5g4 wrote
> Aren't train stations supposed to be places where people are in motion (going in or out), and not necessarily hanging around?
With this logic, airports shouldnt have seats either.
capt_jazz t1_je4je3f wrote
Moynihan train hall is bad for this too...
Italophobia t1_je4m6y8 wrote
It has seating but only for those with tickets. There's also a food court with seating
carpy22 t1_je82jqu wrote
The ticketed seating area shuts down after the last Amtrak departure of the night, which is currently around 9 PM. LIRR of course is 24/7, so if you go to a game at MSG you have to stand around until your train instead of sitting in a waiting room like a civilized human.
DonkStompy t1_je58u4e wrote
The hostility in all the recent designs is palpable
ilostmydog718 t1_je6xzcz wrote
Tranq addicts and dope heads prefer to stand and slump over all wobbly these days.
[deleted] t1_je2yr0g wrote
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elhymut t1_je5pqhs wrote
You know why there are no benches.
_TheCommish_ t1_je6f644 wrote
Yes because it's a mass transit station - not a homeless shelter
elhymut t1_je6g3dv wrote
Exactly! People act like they don’t know how it goes in this city…
SleepyHobo t1_je33miw wrote
Once again NYC architects continue to push the obsession of soulless white architecture in a city that tracks dirt and grime everywhere. Floor will be permanently stained pretty quick just like WTC path platforms.
WTC oculus is the perfect example to be honest. Has no soul. No life. No personality. It’s bland, blinding white marble flooring, white walls, white roof, and white LED lights’ all meld together. The building’s purpose is to funnel you into luxury stores to spend money and take vapid photos for social media. Public transit entrances/exits conveniently hidden away by stairs as if some physiological ploy. No green space. No lounge space. Then just outside you have the beautiful memorial. The perfect juxtaposition of good design and crappy design.
Singapore Changi airport is what NYC architects design aspirations should be aimed towards for a transportation hub.
Maddzilla2793 t1_je3i8vz wrote
Sadly, it’s because that’s what developers will fund.
fasda t1_je3wam5 wrote
Developers do things either because it's cheap or get them attention. Architects loving giving pats on the and awards for shot like this.
fasda t1_je3v3kf wrote
Because architects are one of the most insular industries around. Rich people only want award winning prestigious architects because they have no taste themselves and just compete with other people from that class and architects are the ones that give each other the awards
SoothedSnakePlant t1_je402mr wrote
You're saying this like Calatrava isn't absolutely brilliant. The dude's a terrible architect if you're on the paying end for any of his work but he is a pretty technically gifted architect and his work is undeniably unique and usually incredibly beautiful.
Not sure what axe you have to grind with architecture, but it reeks of the same attitude as "Modern art sucks" people.
fasda t1_je40wy3 wrote
If empty white liminal spaces out of scifi are your thing then sure he's your man. But more typical real spaces are full of clutter like benches and other signs of humans actually living there.
SoothedSnakePlant t1_je414vb wrote
Just because something is white doesn't make it liminal or barren, blank white spaces can use their shape to give them character and personality, which Calatrava undeniably does. No one ever accused his work of having undistinctive shaping.
Vex-valkyrie t1_je49kbk wrote
Tell me you missed the point of this post without telling me lol
UnjustDuality t1_je4i5bk wrote
The character is empty like the modern American gilded soul. You can call it good. It just reminds me of rich people constructing their own cages of luxury.
WorthPrudent3028 t1_je52rab wrote
Aren't Calatrava buildings expensive to maintain as well?
I like the WTC station though. However, I like the original design that opened on nice days better.
The worst redesign was 1 WTC. The original accepted design looked great. The shard with garden levels at the top. What was built is one of the ugliest buildings in the skyline.
heaton5747 t1_je47xhd wrote
Someone get this guy out of the sub for having a completely rational take
tbutlah t1_je6765a wrote
Sounds like this will be a hot take, but I really like the Oculus.
I remember visiting the city for the second time around 2017 and not knowing the Oculus existed. I was in Brookfield Place and randomly took that long underground tunnel that leads into the Oculus. I remember being stunned, thinking that only in a city like New York could such a striking place not even be that well known.
Ancient_Return430 t1_je3ttf1 wrote
They chose the wrong place for Oculus. They thought tourists would flood the mall because of The One, but it never happened. It is far as fuck, they wasted so much space inside, and left all the stores pretty much on the sides, but wtf? Wrong place for a mall; terrible interior design. The exterior taste is subjective. Would have been better if they did the interior better and put this mall elsewhere.
ChipsyKingFisher t1_je4tclt wrote
The oculus is an eye. It’s in its location because every year on 9/11 from 8:46am to 10:28am, the sun moves directly over the opening where the glass is and fills the oculus with light.
It’s a beautiful building, IMO. Most people I’ve met IRL seem to think so too but Reddit loves whining about it for some reason.
down_up__left_right t1_je55fbp wrote
The real reason for the location is the Port Authority owns the land and used post 9/11 support to build a very expensive underground mall under the guise of rebuilding a PATH station that was destroyed on 9/11.
crek42 t1_je73uo2 wrote
Reddit whines about everything. Doubly so in this sub.
OIlberger t1_je4zgxk wrote
> every year on 9/11 from 8:46am to 10:28am, the sun moves directly over the opening where the glass is and fills the oculus with light
IDGAF
knockatize t1_je2t5w7 wrote
And not a single additional train.
For $10 billion.
While plutocrat assmunch James Dolan pays no taxes.
Infinite_Carpenter t1_je4g4ku wrote
The taxpayers of NY are overjoyed. /s
down_up__left_right t1_je54avj wrote
$7 billion to $10 billion was the cost of the plan that would involve removing all of MSG and also tearing down and redeveloping the whole area around the station. The developer, Vornado, that would redevelop around the station is backing out of that plan because the demand for office space is lower post-pandemic.
This image is from a new proposal that just removes the theater. They haven't announced the cost of this plan yet.
[deleted] t1_je5rggi wrote
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Spartacus714 t1_je307hx wrote
STOP MAKING EVERYTHING WHITE MARBLE FLOORS. They’re slippery as fuck in the best of times, but they turn deadly when wet. They chip and expand and are hard on people’s feet. All for an aesthetic that’s douche ugly anyway.
collegedropoutclub t1_je35au9 wrote
When they get the de-icing salt tracked in there, it's like a soapy film, slippery as hell.
SleepyHobo t1_je3lgx7 wrote
Thank you! I strongly echo your sentiment. The upgrades to Penn Station and more recently, the new expansion to Grand Central, are horrible.
DifficultyNext7666 t1_je4rlgs wrote
The chip and expand wasn't on the marble. It was bad design by the architecture firm. At least if we're speaking the oculus
[deleted] t1_je5rzfo wrote
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ShadowMagic t1_je29ovu wrote
???
That would be the 8th ave entrance with the garden remaining intact and not impacted. . The theater would need to be demolished which is still some long shot.
IMHO: anything that is purely aesthetic should be scraped. We need to be investing in expanding function, which this would do very little
midtownguy70 t1_je3vwcr wrote
It doesn't even get the aesthetics right. This is a boring, uninspired design that still lacks natural light.
down_up__left_right t1_je55pg5 wrote
>uninspired design that still lacks natural light.
If you want more natural light than this then the city needs to eminent domain all of MSG for a lot of money.
midtownguy70 t1_je57avj wrote
Hmmmm. City land already, isn't it? What happens if they just don't renew the lease?
In the area surrounding Penn they were going to use eminent domain on a bunch of properties for the disgusting Vornado scheme.
down_up__left_right t1_je58h8h wrote
>What happens if they just don't renew the lease?
It's not a lease that the city can decide whether to renew or not. It's an operating permit so even if not renewed the city needs to eminent domain the arena to tear it down.
...
>If the permit expires, the games and shows could go on — but without much of an audience. The special permit, which expires July 24, allows the Garden to hold more than 2,500 spectators. However, the city would likely allow the Garden to continue operations without interruption while the venue goes through the review process.
...
>Michael Rikon, an attorney whose law firm focuses on eminent domain — cases in which government takes or restricts private property — says said he agreed with MSG’s claim that it’s being singled out, given that MSG owns the property and has successfully operated it.
>If the city denied the MSG permit, Rikon said, “Just compensation would be required. Because if they do not grant the special permit, the property becomes worthless. It can’t be used for its highest and best use.”
>In 2021, the Empire State Development authority estimated that moving the Garden would cost the public $8.6 billion, including $5 billion to build a new arena.
$5 billion to build a new arena seems high since Barclays was built for $1 billion, but whatever the exact amount it would be expensive.
midtownguy70 t1_je5k57c wrote
Thank you for answering my questions with additional information. I was downvoted just for asking for clarity, because....reddit.
blondie64862 t1_je2k31k wrote
I went to catch a train upstate from Moynihan a few weekends ago for the first time...every single screen wasn't working. I am not joking every single screen wasn't updating for track numbers...so there was an employee walking around with a megaphone 🙃 Then every track entrance the employees had to move around the adjustable line ropes....which people jumped over and they had to yell about not cutting and going to the back of the line.
I just don't understand how trains have been around since the early 1800s and we seem to be getting worse at station design and upkeep
knockatize t1_je2sza7 wrote
New York specifically is getting worse. Great swaths of the rest of the world have their shit together. New York is where expensive failure is applauded as if it was world-changing success.
blebaford t1_je3a1fk wrote
New York is the U.S. city that has trains
DifficultyNext7666 t1_je4ryjm wrote
Lol who applauds new york?
The only people that think NYC works well are our elected officials and liberals who don't live here who are vested in nyc being a city on a hill to prove conservatives wrong.
Edit: ha, forgot the transplants who have to justify why they live with 3 other people in their 30s making the same amount of money they could have made back in ohio
[deleted] t1_je8dv0j wrote
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lickedTators t1_je3a0c7 wrote
I went to DC a few weeks ago and everything was working. Maybe something happened to the system for the couple hours you were go and now you're extrapolating a single anecdote to hate on the train system.
Bradaigh t1_je3m99o wrote
You literally provided an anecdote as if that negates their anecdote... 🤦♂️
To add more anecdotes, I've been to Moynihan roughly a dozen times, and probably 3 of those times the screens weren't working properly. I'd be curious to see data on how often the system breaks down. A shit ton of money went into this, we deserve better.
Donny_Crane t1_je4vnmc wrote
I have also been to Moynihan a dozen plus times and never seen the screens not work
blondie64862 t1_je55krf wrote
I am from New Jersey and I have used NYPS to commute from upstate (where I went to university) and from Brooklyn (where I now live) since 2009, commuting for work to Long Island. NYPS has tons of issues, it's terrible, gross, ugly, disorganized, the tunnels need extensive rehabilitation. BUT! I have never seen the track screens not working.
My main gripe with Moynihan is that it was such an expensive and exhaustive project (even the PM architect killed himself during construction) is that it has an EXTENSIVE screen display. There are screens literally on every column and surface...and not one could show the track. But best believe the blinding red Verizon sign was working.
I have a lot of issues with the architecture and infrastructure in the city. And the majority isn't asking what will make commuting easier...but what will make it flashy.
rvbcaboose1018 t1_je3bzmu wrote
It's because the MTA is corrupt and we keep trying to figure out ways to give them more money and power.
Maddzilla2793 t1_je3idqp wrote
As is Amtrak.
Desterado t1_je5gpum wrote
The MTA doesn’t have anything to do with Moynihan though.
OkBottle2000 t1_je37m27 wrote
Mall
I’m so over this bullshit minimalist “Apple store” look
valies t1_je2alie wrote
This looks like a worse version of the Oculus.
BroadBaker5101 t1_je34p8v wrote
That’s what I thought it was at first
down_up__left_right t1_je56aj8 wrote
Redeveloping any thing above the platforms is basically Oculus part 2.
It will be called a transit project but have nothing to do with operating trains. Instead the funding will go towards creating a fancy mall above the platforms.
This plan might actual be better than the $7 billion one the Governor and Mayor were pushing for because this would create a smaller fancy mall so it should be cheaper. Cost hasn't been announced yet though
[deleted] t1_je3kos8 wrote
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PsychologicalFun4399 t1_je2opob wrote
It does look like a mall. And the no benches - very New York
midtownguy70 t1_je3xizb wrote
A mall that will be leased out to the same shitty repetition of retail you will find in the surrounding blocks. Sweetgreen, Starbucks, Chopt, Poke Bowl, a bank at each corner, H&M, Duane Reade, Chipotle, Shake Shack, CVS, and four or five wannabe French places selling overpriced baked goods.
GoodLifeWorkHard t1_je4n6v3 wrote
au bon pain for my wallet!
SleepyHobo t1_je3m0pg wrote
It literally is a mall, just one with trains. The only hint that’s this is a train station are the three small train track screens.
Status_Fox_1474 t1_je21s5e wrote
Yeah, sure. If this is what they think is the best idea, so be it.
Boston did a successful rebuild of North Station under the Garden. MSG should pay for this, but who knows.
W00DERS0N t1_je4f6b9 wrote
North Station is a glorified MNR platform, though. No Soul.
Status_Fox_1474 t1_je4g1oz wrote
To be honest, I don’t care about souls in train stations anymore. Want them spacious. If there’s natural light even better. And places to sit.
I mean, south station these days isn’t much better than north,,
shant_jan t1_je2k5ii wrote
as long as they design a sad, dark corner next to NJTransit and put Tracks back I'll be happy
CavediverNY t1_je2xh5y wrote
Oh yeah, don’t forget about Kabooz!
CavediverNY t1_je2xfpz wrote
I know it’s not the same but they did move across the street
Classic_D t1_je2w0wh wrote
Im so sick of everything being turned into a mall.
MrCertainly t1_je3x2fv wrote
Looks pretty.
I've seen a LOT of these concept art renditions through the decades. Maybe I'm jaded, but I'll believe it when I see it actually happen.
Right now, the biggest problem is what the train station is meant for -- TRAIN SERVICE. We need more trains, we need more tunnels, we need more tracks, we need wider platforms, etc.
My 2 cents? I don't care if Penn Station looks like a soulless, utilitarian hellscape that's more artistically barren than a plain wall. As long as IT WORKS AS A TRAIN STATION. We can debate which open-air aesthetic we want to go with after we figure out the tough problems like capacity.
This train station was designed before the Wright Bros took to the sky, before the Model T reached popularity -- and it was intentionally overdesigned to anticipate 50+ years of expected growth. And then they tore the entire above-ground structure down around the time we sent mankind to the moon. And kept using the service for longer and longer -- so much that the "maximum" the original designers intended would be considered a slow day today.
We are at the maximum capacity the current system allows. We literally cannot fit more trains in the station. We literally cannot fit more trains in the tunnels. The trains themselves are bursting at the seams during rush hour. We have very real problems like tunnel degradation due to Sandy.
This concept art is just a fresh coat of paint. It adds nothing meaningful to solve the very real problems of the last 40-50 years of growth and deferred maintenance, let alone plannning for the next 40-50 years.
IRodeTenSpeed88 t1_je40i1u wrote
Looks like a fucking Apple Store
Legitimate-Sleep-221 t1_je3v0aj wrote
Won't the kiosks get in the way of the players??
midtownguy70 t1_je3xu0i wrote
Generic soulless design 🤮
WagwanDeezNutz t1_je4d5ng wrote
thats not the proposed new MSG. Thats the proposed new Penn Station.
-blourng- t1_je3h7y8 wrote
Not perfect, but I'll take it over the miserable dump we have now
edit: the city should be getting a lot more than this for a potentially $10 billion price tag, though. That's the kind of money that gets most cities several new subway lines, HSR stations, etc.
OHYAMTB t1_je3lir8 wrote
Best we can do is 4 escalators and an environmental study
Vex-valkyrie t1_je49gxr wrote
Hooray, pointless renovations.
-blourng- t1_je4bog1 wrote
I wouldn't call it pointless (given how heavily-used the station is), but we should be getting non-trivial regional rail upgrades along with station renovations for the same price tag.
down_up__left_right t1_je577xw wrote
A big question is whether this smaller redevelopment plan also creates new dead end platforms for NJ transit that would make future through running more expensive to implement?
Now that Vornado no longer wants to redevelop the area everyone might be ready to admit that NJ transit doesn't need 6 new platforms south of the existing station. That was just an excuse to demolish the block south of the station and give it to Vornado.
-blourng- t1_je57zpv wrote
I think 'Penn south' is considered part of the gateway project, whereas this is just an overhaul of the existing station above the tracks
Vex-valkyrie t1_je4chwe wrote
That’s a solid rebuttal, and I agree with your station renovations suggestion 100%. There are several that are outright horrendous in both accessibility and appearance (2nd Avenue F line and Canal Street are the first two that come to mind).
-blourng- t1_je4cxaf wrote
Too many horrible stations to count in NYC. It's like the city and MTA have collectively forgotten that filthy, disgusting dungeons aren't a normal feature of urban transit networks
ephemeral2316 t1_je53rta wrote
What did second avenue do to you?
Vex-valkyrie t1_je9k1p8 wrote
I don’t think it was personal but one time there was a fully formed human poop on a column near the south exit for months
SoothedSnakePlant t1_je40wgb wrote
Can we just actually fucking fix the train station part? All of this money should go to more platforms and more tunnels. Every cent spent on anything else is inexcusable.
Hockeyjockey58 t1_je4nwj0 wrote
Ancient_Return430 t1_je3tin1 wrote
Look, as long as no tax $$$ is going into this and no tax exemption, I am , oh wait, who am I kidding?
Soggy-Constant5932 t1_je4n77g wrote
House the homeless
BrooklynCTO t1_je4r84f wrote
No new MSG unless they learn how to pay property taxes Fuck Dolan
QuietCakehorn t1_je517ti wrote
Truth
Itzchurchfirst t1_je5ot6o wrote
I propose we get Dolan TF out.
subordinatepixel t1_je4lq5v wrote
No benches allowed
KurtzM0mmy t1_je52bbi wrote
Just make sure to keep the McDonald’s
_allycat t1_je57otv wrote
Oculus Interior 2, revenge of the floor tiles
KikiDotNet t1_je5sfu9 wrote
For a city that was once considered a central creative hub - it's so disappointing to see mocks like that reflect the dullest designs. Why can't we take some risks here? I understand there are structural considerations, but certainly, we can do better than this...
Bubbley333 t1_je6rqmi wrote
I live in the neighborhood and no one wants this or needs it. We would love to see MSG go elsewhere if they need more room for commuters, which they do not.
[deleted] t1_je3864a wrote
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lickedTators t1_je3a41f wrote
Not nearly enough people being shown in that proposal.
RyVsWorld t1_je3gy0z wrote
Why does the post to penn Station have a ton of green trees
AltaBirdNerd t1_je4eg49 wrote
Oh great....another rendering that'll never get built! Wake me up when they release the next one in about 2 years.
[deleted] t1_je4mdqm wrote
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Yodan t1_je4nysx wrote
I dont give a fuck just please stop making the subways smell like piss and have rat and meth heads everywhere and shit stains on every corner booth on the E train, stop spending millions on nothing projects like this
Desperate-Ad-6463 t1_je4wh3c wrote
Proposed Penn Station. MSG is upstairs.
AmericanCreamer t1_je50ue9 wrote
So many haters. This looks amazing and 1,000 times better than the sht hole today
nickp223 t1_je5pgtt wrote
Put it 16miles under concrete and we have a deal
[deleted] t1_je5t5sr wrote
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Jeff3412 t1_je6svii wrote
>The demolition of the Theater at MSG would free up substantial room for the train hub below, which is crowded with structural columns that disrupt the passage of commuters, said Elizabeth Goldstein, the president of the Municipal Art Society, a nonprofit preservation group that was briefed on the plans. The group supported a similar overhaul of the train station in 2014.
>But it would not solve all of the station’s problems, Ms. Goldstein said. The plan doesn’t add train capacity, nor does it address congestion issues on the Seventh Avenue side of the station, where pedestrians exit the subway, she said. Historically, most passengers have entered the station from the east, not the west, though redevelopment of Manhattan’s Far West Side may alter that.
Everyone talks about whether the arena should move but why not just get rid of two Penn Plaza? The office building takes up about a quarter of the block above the station. It's easier to put a value on the cost of buying an office building than the cost of buying the only large arena in Manhattan.
When Vornado wanted the land the governor and mayor supported spending somewhere between $7 billion and $10 billion to eminent domain entire blocks to work around both the MSG arena and 2 Penn Plaza.
If this proposal that can create some light and space on the 8th avenue side by tearing down the theater is not enough and light/space is also ended on the 7th avenue side then just tear down the single building that is on top of the 7th avenue side.
myassholealt t1_jeaf3c7 wrote
Too sterile of a color theme. No soul compared to existing MSG.
Wintermute7 t1_je2hzx3 wrote
Not a bench in sight