Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

thatweirdguyted t1_jbbt6o9 wrote

Reply to comment by chasonreddit in ‘Sick of it’: Catholic women vent frustration over sex, power and abuse by _Brandobaris_

The various crimes and cover-ups, conscious choices to be intolerant, literally the whole ball of wax is only able to continue because people continue to enable them. They do so by being complacent with the atrocities committed by the church, but more importantly they do so by directly funding the leadership that allows these crimes to occur, and funding their coverups, their legal defense, etc etc.

Your church should refuse tithing until leadership stands down and the issues are dealt with. But they won't, because obedience without question is a core function of Catholicism, or religion as a whole.

If you're part of a biker gang that doesn't do human trafficking, but you kick up to one that does, and you know they're using your money to do it, how clean is your conscience?

3

chasonreddit t1_jbbw5zt wrote

> Your church should refuse tithing until leadership stands down

We don't tithe.

And who chooses what the leadership should stand down about? You? You are certainly free to donate or not to any cause you wish. Except of course when that is taxes. So The Ukraine for example, you have to support as an American, you have no choice. Church members are at least free to withhold if they wish.

Obedience without question is a problem everywhere at all times. Thank goodness most people do not do this.

0

thatweirdguyted t1_jbby6bp wrote

My mistake, I misspoke about tithing. I wasn't trying to imply that the Church tithes to the Vatican. I used the wrong word. They do donate through Peter's Pence, but it's voluntary, so I'll drop that issue except to say those who do donate are in fact finding this abuse.

I'm not an American, though I do know what you mean. And politicians routinely get called out for financial mismanagement, and when people get mad enough about it, the people vote someone else in, so it does allow for a change of leadership.

I can't really see a problem with the people demanding their Cardinal or Bishop or whomever standing down for a failure to protect children from sex abuse and cover-ups within the organization. Either individually or collectively. Each person has the right to hinge their participation on this issue if they choose. And many do. The Catholic Church is losing followers in droves because of it. I don't think of it as a "who should be the one who decides the course of the church" because that seems sanctimonious. I look at it from the perspective of not wanting to continue riding a bus that is going nowhere good, and saying "either change course or I'm getting off"

2

chasonreddit t1_jbc0my2 wrote

I agree 100% with your last paragraph.

> not wanting to continue riding a bus that is going nowhere good, and saying "either change course or I'm getting off

Everyone should choose, and I totally agree that the authoritarianism of the church is antiquated and needs reform. But I belong to many (way too many) organizations I would like to see move in another direction. You are always forced with the question of simply throwing up your hands and saying "well THAT's a lost cause" or staying and trying to effect change. It's a hard choice and in various contexts I have made both choices.

I don't think I have ever belonged to any organization whose cannon I agreed with 100% percent of the time. From Boys Scouts to PTA to city council. You can quit or you can accept the good it does and try to be an agent of change.

1