ExeCUTEive t1_j537qrj wrote
Reply to comment by Quirky_Butterfly_946 in This is currently an anti-trans bill sitting in our house at the moment, and frankly, I don’t see enough people talking about it. by Jtagz
Just curious why you think you know more than the folks who have dedicated their lives to this field? Educate yourself: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-the-science-on-gender-affirming-care-for-transgender-kids-really-shows/
[deleted] t1_j53c018 wrote
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zetterbeauty t1_j53r83k wrote
Puberty blockers and hormone treatment aren’t permanent. If a patient chooses to de-transition or decide they no longer wish to transition, the effects are reversible.
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zetterbeauty t1_j5521zi wrote
Why do you care if it's not you or your child taking them?
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asuds t1_j5eo80f wrote
Who lives with the consequences if they kill themselves? Can you not see this as the better of the two outcomes?
[deleted] t1_j5feo35 wrote
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asuds t1_j5fvk4x wrote
Except that there is evidence that treatment helps reduce negative outcomes, so….
[deleted] t1_j5jw37j wrote
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asuds t1_j5ld8ay wrote
No.
Yet, gender-affirming care is associated with reduced prevalence of suicide thoughts and attempts for those who receive the care they need.[1]
A recent study found that transgender adults who received pubertal suppression hormone therapy as adolescents were less likely to experience suicide ideation in their lifetime.[2]
Respondents to the 2015 USTS who have had the gender affirming hormone therapy or surgical care they need had lower prevalence of past-year suicide attempts compared to those who had not received the care they needed (5.1% vs. 8.5%); this difference persists even after controlling for race, age, sex assigned at birth, binary/nonbinary gender identity, and education.[3]
[1] What We Know Project. (2018). What Does the Scholarly Research Say about the Effect of Gender Transition on Transgender Well- Being? Ithaca, NY: Cornell University.
[2] 8 Turban, J. L., King, D., Carswell, J. M., & Keuroghlian, A. S. (2020). Pubertal suppression for transgender youth and risk of suicidal ideation. Pediatrics, 145(2), 68-76.
[3] 9 Herman, J. L., et al., 2019; Herman, J.L., Conron, K.J., Reisner, R., & Haas, A. (2017, November 9). Effect of gender transition-related health care utilization on suicidal thoughts and behaviors: Findings from the 2015 U.S. Transgender Survey. Paper presented by J.L. Herman at the Annual Meeting of the American Public Health Association, Atlanta,
Wiked_Pissah t1_j53wxfa wrote
Do you realize that most of those suicides happen because those bigot parents refuse to acknowledge that their child hates their body? They literally won't live long enough to get to "the age" you deem suitable for them to decide for themselves. Ask any LGBTQ adult when they felt they were Gay/Bi/Trans etc and almost all will say before they were adults. So by your logic, let's just let them feel tortured by bullies at school and hope they don't actually kill themselves as a result. Doesn't look like that has been working so well so far.
[deleted] t1_j54fze0 wrote
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Educational-Eye4657 t1_j54u2p0 wrote
>I’m pretty sure most of us hated our bodies, felt tortured
And I'm pretty sure you've never experienced the level of bullying and hate that LGBTQ people face on a day-to-day basis. If you're for children having the right to live happily, then I also feel you must acknowledge that trans and gender-nonconforming adolescents have the highest rates of suicide and depression among any demographic. The decision on taking any potential treatment should be made by them in consultation with a qualified healthcare provider, not some random person on the internet who doesn't know their individual situation. In today's world, it is too easy for us to forget that individual liberty exists and needs to be protected. We cannot let legislation regulate every aspect of an individual's life because none of us are carbon copies of each other.
vexingsilence t1_j55rln7 wrote
>If you're for children having the right to live happily, then I also feel you must acknowledge that trans and gender-nonconforming adolescents have the highest rates of suicide and depression among any demographic.
Yes, they're mentally ill. They need treatment for their mental illness. Altering their body to support their disturbed thoughts while their brain is still developing isn't a good approach, you don't need a PhD to realize that.
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>In today's world, it is too easy for us to forget that individual liberty exists and needs to be protected.
As adults. Until then, the health and safety of children must be protected.
Educational-Eye4657 t1_j55t517 wrote
No, they are not mentally ill, and science has confirmed that it is not an 'illness' issue but more of a social stigmatization of a very real and natural condition. Frankly, it's none of your business if you do not understand them or comprehend their condition and it's as simple as that. Some additional reading for you: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-48448804
vexingsilence t1_j55ufpl wrote
It's absolutely my business when it's in the public schools and affects people within my community. Child abusers would say the same thing, none of anyone else's business, right?
It's gender dysphoria, it's absolutely a mental illness.
Wiked_Pissah t1_j55ymp6 wrote
Spoken like a complete ignorant. Ask any gay person if they think being gay is a mental illness. I hope you get punched in the face for the question. Dysphoria happens more from someone not being supported to be themselves and think through their feelings, hence why the suicide rate is so high. I would hope a parent would live their child enough to be able to have an open, loving, and most importantly, non-judgmental conversation with their child if they were having these feelings. Not to automatically label them as mentally ill. This kind of naivety is exactly why mental health in this country is so bad. Just because someone has feelings or thinks different than you doesn't make them mentally ill. It just makes you an asshole.
vexingsilence t1_j560hsy wrote
>Ask any gay person if they think being gay is a mental illness.
Doctors used to define it that way, before changing not based on anything tangible, but due to pressure from the public.
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> I hope you get punched in the face for the question.
Condoning violence towards people with opinions that you don't like. Nice.
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>Not to automatically label them as mentally ill.
You're basically stigmatizing mental illness.
Wiked_Pissah t1_j562zrk wrote
I wouldn't expect you to understand. You have demonstrated your ignorance on the subject exceptionally well. But as someone who actually knows people that have been abused, bullied and looked down on by people like you, I would stand by them a 1000x over. As for the violence part, I have stepped in and stopped plenty of fights that were not started by the person I was defending. But rather by the hateful bigot that felt the need to push their views on other people.
vexingsilence t1_j563vdt wrote
>But as someone who actually knows people that have been abused, bullied and looked down on by people like you, I would stand by them a 1000x over.
That's a strange stance considering that you're proposing abuse to vulnerable people that aren't able to consent.
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>But rather by the hateful bigot that felt the need to push their views on other people.
That's pretty much what I'm against. People who would force children into things they're not ready for.
Wiked_Pissah t1_j56n9xr wrote
And this is where your ignorance shines so brightly. If you actually knew anyone you claim to be protecting you would have an idea of just how backward your thinking is. No parent has ever said "Gee, I really wish I had a son I stead of a girl. I think I am going to make them suffer through a lifetime of mental trauma and force them to become a girl" This never happens. The child starts to question their identity. I loving and responsible parent listens to them and talks with the child about why they think that. Maybe even finding others that have gone through the same thing so they can talk it out together. No one is proposing abuse. Quite the opposite in fact if you actually read what I am saying and think with an open mind.
Yemu_Mizvaj t1_j55o9xf wrote
When I was a kid, i wanted to be a pilot, then i wanted to be a doctor, then i wanted to be a woodworker, then I started fixing cars. Now I'm back in school after wasting 4 years of my life in a shitty industry. Now I wish my parents forced me to go to school to become a pilot like I always wanted. Kids dont know what they want and neither do parents. You understand neither.
You can enter the military at 18 yet, you cant smoke or drink until 21 for a reason. Kids dont know what they're putting in their body but the military will raise them to be excellent soldiers and providers. Having worked in a shitty industry, I was still able to go back to school, being in the military has many benefits.
Chopping ur dick off or taking hormone pills at a young age is irreversible.
l337quaker t1_j59wthj wrote
You can't smoke or drink until 21 because the US has a bunch puritanical old fucks running things. Go pretty much anywhere outside the US and smoking/drinking age is 18.
Yemu_Mizvaj t1_j5afg9c wrote
Yes you're right, I was born in one of them. A high percentage of the population drinks and smokes there, weed is also illegal. Every country is run by a bunch of old fucks. Your point is?
Wiked_Pissah t1_j55zn3i wrote
Actually taking hormones is reversible. But intelligent people already know that every human has both estrogen and testosterone in their body. Yes you, the man with all kinds of life regrets. Even you have estrogen in your body. It's the predominance of one or the other that determines things like growing breasts or a penis. A man that takes estrogen therapy making it the predominant hormone in their body will grow breasts to a degree. Same way a woman taking testosterone will grow facial hair. And I don't know of a single medical professional in this country that would take to cutting off a child's punishment until they are a legal adult and can make the decision for themselves.
Yemu_Mizvaj t1_j57mdj1 wrote
"But intelligent people already know..." how anyone can tell they're speaking to an unintelligent person. If I'm an alcoholic from a young age, I lose brain cells early on in life. I also dont develop my brain in the same way nature adapted us to. Why would it be any different with hormone, mind and physique altering medications?
Hormonal changes and medications are know to change sex drives, desires and brain development. So this should be ok to do with kids because one day they decided being a man or woman was not their liking?
Why dont you give them meth since they realised it's easier to have dopamine than a happy life? Once they turn 18 sure, have all the meth and hormones u want, until then, you're risking a childs life based on a whim.
1carus_x t1_j564dfk wrote
You're right, infants should not be undergoing genital mutilations. Which is explcititly what this bill allows to occur.
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