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Frances_Zappa t1_j0uqbmo wrote

This chatgtp is taking over universities. The implications for essay writing

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SerialChilIer t1_j0uynq1 wrote

I really don’t know how schools and universities will combat this technology. ChatGPT is already able to make various forms of prompts you input, not just one. And this technology is still very new, imagine how good it will be in 5-10 years.

Schools are going to have to adapt how they handle certain assignments. I have no clue how.

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foxhelp t1_j0veq0f wrote

Apparently chatgtp isn't very original when you give it the similar essay prompts, so the high school principal I talked to said you basically just go plug it in and see what it generates and compare the output.

Add on differences in grammar, word choice, perfect spelling and it becomes pretty obvious something doesn't align within the same semester. I guess the problem starts arising when the student uses chatgtp for all their submissions in a new semester the differences aren't as obvious.

There is also services that are springing up to determine if an essay is machine generated.

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EstablishmentShoddy1 t1_j0vnt8l wrote

fair but you can still paraphrase chatgpt and your fine. Half the time essays are hard to due to writer’s block

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andrenikous t1_j0vtefw wrote

"Just make sure you change some of the words and move stuff around so it doesn't look like you copied me."

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gender_nihilism t1_j0vtn6n wrote

then you're just using a tool. honestly, what's the problem? if you review it, edit it, and expand on it while verifying it, you've saved yourself a lot of grunt work while still doing everything actually important: the actual thinking. I use it for scenes in stories I write. I take the output, rewrite it as if I were editing my own writing, et voilà, free writer's block clearance.

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checker280 t1_j0vykkv wrote

It was always less how much you remembered and recalled, and more knowing where to look for the info and what info to look for.

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foxhelp t1_j0w1czd wrote

Curious as a writer what you thought about the guy that made the kids book using AI?

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/chrisstokelwalker/tech-worker-ai-childrens-book-angers-illustrators

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gender_nihilism t1_j0w89fu wrote

not the same. using an ai image generator is different because you're not deriving your work from the output, but rather just publishing the output. I'm not making a judgement here, except that they're emphatically not the same thing.

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abraxasisall t1_j0vubxc wrote

This is going to be what I find impossible to prevent; paraphrasing it and rewriting it slightly in your own words. I suppose one way to check it would be to have another program input a bunch of prompts and compare the original essay for likeness, in the same way that there are programs already that scour scholarly works on the web and compare for likeness; except this time it’s testing AI outputs.

Now if only it could write mathematical proofs for me..

Edit: it can fucking write proofs

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EstablishmentShoddy1 t1_j0w2cen wrote

Yeah I heard the AI isn't really sophisticated for math

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abraxasisall t1_j1180fo wrote

They’re wrong, it can write proofs perfectly. I think it has limited characters (ASCII) available to express certain concepts however; if it could freely use laTex I think it would be able to accomplish exactly what we’re discussing.

I asked it to prove all kinds of math problems ranging from simple (using mathematical induction, direct proof, contradiction to prove things) to complex (prove certain functions f: Z -> Z are injective, surjective, or bijective (both), prove that the cardinality of Z, set of all integers, is less than R, set of all real numbers) and in the cases I tried, the proofs were sufficient. Remarkable.

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ApatheticWithoutTheA t1_j0vuvuz wrote

It’s very dependent on how much you interact with it.

If two people give it a similar prompt, yeah, you’ll probably get a similar answer. But the more you talk to it and it direct it, it can become very tough to tell.

You can even paste in another paper you have written and have it copy your writing style.

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foxhelp t1_j0w136n wrote

Which I think is a distinction of "very low effort cheaters" getting caught verses the "moderate effort cheaters"

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adrolter t1_j0x92pj wrote

Still miles easier than actually doing the assignment, and will only become more so.

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foxhelp t1_j0xs3ag wrote

I think that is where the other comment comes in that education needs to change / improve. Cause if you can google the answer, (or just ask chatgtp) does it make sense to be asking the question anymore as a form of evaluation?

my other comment goes as follows:

"The high school principal I talked with said it is actually a good thing this came about, as it is forcing them to rethink:

  • what kind of questions they ask in class/essays
  • evaluation methods that have largely been static
  • learning outcomes"
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VansAndOtherMusings t1_j0wbxah wrote

In addition to the essays which I trialed and got a great passing score. You can manipulate it into incorporating academic sources and real world use cases. Yes of course you still need to read it edit, add nuance but the more you interact the more personal it gets and the line between chatGPT and Grammarly is blurred to all hell.

You can even paste your resume and have it write you a cover letter based on facts from your résumé incorporating the following job description: (pasted here)

And it works magnificent. Again still need to edit and clean up but it gets the majority of things right.

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ApatheticWithoutTheA t1_j0wcrml wrote

Since I’ve been looking for a new dev job I’ve probably had it write me 20 cover letters in the last week lol.

I just paste in the job description, paste in my resume points. And boom, customized cover letter that is better than anything I could write. This thing is amazing for that. It’s pretty much made cover letters a non issue at this point.

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VansAndOtherMusings t1_j0wd87j wrote

Oh yeah 100% I even use it to answer the other silly questions of why are you excited to work here or what about our mission excites you and as long as that organization has been around before 2021 it answers all of those questions.

I think the true key is using the chatgpt api in some way to make some money. Even if it’s not life changing money just something.

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Whaines t1_j0xnkur wrote

And an AI is reading them too!

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ApatheticWithoutTheA t1_j0xool7 wrote

Which reminds me that I filled out about 15 applications only to find out that my new resume wasn’t being parsed correctly by one of the major ATS software products API (Lever).

I probably wasted 8 hours of my life on those only to find out that the parser was putting everything in the wrong spots.

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qyloo t1_j0wvul3 wrote

Until you train a neural net on your own writing

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3_layers_deep t1_j0x9qh1 wrote

You just need to change the prompt a bit.

Also, the tech will improve. Yeah, you might beat today's chatgtp, but its improving fast.

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legitSTINKYPINKY t1_j0wk2g3 wrote

Have you used it? It doesn’t spit out the same things. Especially if you tweak it or tell it to change it completely.

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DimiBlue t1_j0wureu wrote

The obvious way to fight this would be to legitimately research, input that data. If you have any uniqueness in your sources you'd get a unique output.

Or hell, just use it as an editor.

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Frances_Zappa t1_j0uz8qp wrote

My friend is in school and says its still on the downlow, but that he knows people who have completed very intricate coding assignments. Essays comparing literature.

Im curious if I can use it to create music. Generate MIDI sequences and such.

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chisoph t1_j0v1etd wrote

I was able to use it to generate some very simple LaTeX documents, like a resume template. It's so fucking awesome

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checker280 t1_j0vzfel wrote

This! I was trying to figure out how to write an intro letter to a corporation I hoped to work for that wasn’t geared toward new graduates or free internships and it offered a few templates easily

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hus_k_ t1_j0v4o17 wrote

It is text only, I just tried haha. It'll tell you where to place a beat but can't output a file. If it was connected to another sub Ai that could do it, perhaps

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TeH_MasterDebater t1_j0v8mkh wrote

In this video a guy managed to do it by asking ChatGPT to produce a melody in the form of a tuple expressing pitch and duration. Then he played it using Python and a library called Scamp. It's a pretty cool workaround to not being able to express music notes directly but I don't think it'll be winning any Grammy's soon.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ogfYRBgzZPU&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE

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uqde t1_j0vtpca wrote

There are ways around the text limitations if you’re creative enough. I saw a youtuber play chess against ChatGPT by using standard written-out chess notation. (The AI started attempting illegal moves after about 10 turns, but according to the person that was better than any other text-based AI he’s tested)

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TangoDeltaFoxtrot t1_j0vg373 wrote

Yeah, I imagine it would be relatively simple for another program to translate text to music

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elglas t1_j0w1g8o wrote

Our national broadcaster raves about it... It won't be on the down low much longer.

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commodoregoat t1_j0vdmey wrote

Yeah it can make music & MIDI sequences. Search for Musenet, it's another OpenAI project.

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ApatheticWithoutTheA t1_j0vvo6e wrote

It doesn’t do well at coding anything past a novice level right now.

If you give it something complicated, about half the time it will give you a very convincing wrong answer that appears it will work at first glance but is slightly off. Or it will give you an answer that works but isn’t done in a way that is considered best practice or is just outright a security issue.

It would probably mostly work for some freshmen/sophomore computer science classes though.

Source: I’m a Software Engineer that has been using it since the day it came out. It’s an amazing tool but it has a ways to go in regards to programming.

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4hometnumberonefan t1_j0w3yvs wrote

Yeah it’s honestly screwed me over a few times and would have been better off just watching a youtube video. But still pointed me in the right direction.

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checker280 t1_j0vz1un wrote

What is the copyright issues around you using their tool to come up with new creative sequences?

Say you used it to come up with a midi sequence that you use to create a billion dollar song… who wrote the song? It’s a for profit tool - do they deserve a cut?

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VansAndOtherMusings t1_j0wc2vb wrote

You can use it to create fusion cooking recipes. Which I found pretty damn neat. May not taste good but it can blend and merge foods to create new dishes.

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xenomorph856 t1_j0v1sek wrote

Not just schools. Not just ChatGPT, but AI in general is moving at a breakneck pace. I think the next 5-10 years will absolutely be disrupted by these new tools.

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VoraciousTrees t1_j0vdilx wrote

Society isn't ready psychologically. This is like when the math teacher told you that you'd never have constant access to a calculator. Well, now your mom can complain you didn't even spend 5 seconds writing a ChatGPT prompt for a heartfelt birthday email.

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drlongtrl t1_j0vq3hi wrote

I did prompt it to write that email. If I were to send that to my parents, it would be the nicest thing anyone has ever said or written to them.

Dear Mom,

Happy birthday! I hope you have the most amazing day filled with love, laughter, and all of your favorite things. You mean the world to me and I am so grateful to have you as my mother. Thank you for always being there for me, for your endless love and support, and for everything you do for our family.

I wish I could be there with you to celebrate, but I hope you know that I am thinking of you and sending all of my love from afar. You deserve the very best and I hope your birthday is as special as you are.

Love always, [Your Name]

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thedoc90 t1_j0vtr47 wrote

My mom would immediately ask me what I was diagnosed with and how long I had left to live if I sent her that message.

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atarka t1_j0vyoyl wrote

(hangs up) — Your foster children are already dead.

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SerialChilIer t1_j0v2vcg wrote

I almost wish we could like… Halt the progress here haha. This is going to be massively disruptive and we need time to accommodate but I know the progression of technology waits for no one so guess we’ll just have to deal with it as it comes.

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xenomorph856 t1_j0v3ygo wrote

100%. I have no doubt that it's going to be a shitshow that we're not even close to being ready for. But hey, that's the spice of life right? haha.. ha 😅

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BLF402 t1_j0vrfz5 wrote

5 years definitely. 10 year where it will be the norm and the general population trying to get a good grasp at it

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xenomorph856 t1_j0vskq0 wrote

I don't think we'll have a grasp of it, legally, politically, socially, culturally, or psychologically, for at least 50 years. It's going to take a while. Most of the world is barely coming to grips with the internet and social media.

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realsingingishard t1_j0vjjhi wrote

It’s gonna get real Orwellian up in here. “If you cannot produce (when asked) video footage of you while writing this essay, with your screen shared as part of the video, you will automatically fail the assignment.”

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DreamMaster8 t1_j0wfk5x wrote

Yeah until the ai can fake video based on yr face data. And then we are back like okd time where we need to stay in school to do it.

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mrgulabull t1_j0wizjv wrote

Most remote proctored tests already work this way. Web cams on, starts with a 360 recording of your work area to ensure there is nothing to reference / cheat with, detects if your eyes move off screen, scans and monitors all processes running on your computer. In addition, a remote “viewer” can see your camera and hear your audio and chat with you if anything is suspicious.

I thought it was pretty insane when I first saw my nephew take a test like this, but it seems they’re already fairly well prepared.

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3_layers_deep t1_j0xa52p wrote

That is basically the plan.

Google docs tracks your writing. Teachers are using that to check if the kids are actually writing papers or just copy/pasting in an AI one.

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VoraciousTrees t1_j0vd320 wrote

There's currently an arms race between clever programmers building detectors, and lazy high-school students trying to evade them. You can grab popcorn and watch at the official ChatGPT discord.

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checker280 t1_j0w1tfq wrote

It will be fascinating to watch the various groups (teachers and artists so far) pushing back against these tools as they try to control the new tech.

It feels like they are both fighting the same fight - how do you determine and judge the amount of human effort behind human/AI collaborations?

Did you see the latest strategy by the anti AI art activists? Since they keep insisting the output is a wholly original piece free from any copyright rules and restrictions they have been forcing the AI to make images of Mickey Mouse.

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TheCentralFlame t1_j0vhyyu wrote

The concept of school is wrong currently. It should be about gaining tools to apply in the real world to solve problems. All written projects that aren’t directly addressing a real world problem and attempting to create change in the now so that a professor can grade a paper and everyone can forget about it forever is a waste of time in the first place, before anyone attempts to get a grade without putting in any work. Why pay to cheat so that you don’t have to learn? You’re paying to learn. Who cares if you cheat on a paper when you’re only harming yourself.

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SerialChilIer t1_j0viqw5 wrote

You’re harming yourself and the credibility of your practice someday, whatever you do. Means less qualified people may get into the workforce if eventually AI can do a significant amount of assignments.

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TheCentralFlame t1_j0vixxb wrote

It turns trained professionals into general labor. Got to learn to think for yourself.

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SerialChilIer t1_j0vlsqs wrote

I was more thinking about doctors and jobs that many people rely their own safety on but

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3_layers_deep t1_j0xaeq1 wrote

That is only one part of school. A big part of school is screening out candidates for future employers.

Students who write decent essays show they have a baseline level of intelligence, work ethic and ability to conform.

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LordLordylordMcLord t1_j0vn5p2 wrote

The real answer is that essays were never actually useful. Schools as we know them today were created to train obedience, not scholarship.

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UntoldTruth_ t1_j0vskhr wrote

I mean, I would think it would be pretty simple. Kind of like proctored exams in online classes, just have important writing assignments done in class/recorded.

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SerialChilIer t1_j0vtygf wrote

That sounds awful though. What about ten page or more essays?

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UntoldTruth_ t1_j0vvb0n wrote

You would have to record yourself when writing in lockdown browser so they can see you searching for your sources and whatnot.

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3_layers_deep t1_j0xdegs wrote

Google Docs already tracks your writing process. They will just check to make sure it looks human.

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truedoom t1_j0xcgoj wrote

Just my opinion, but maybe schools and universities need to stop getting students to memorize lots of facts, figures, etc and then regurgitate it on pages.

Maybe instead we should do things like show understanding of learning. Have a discussion with the students and have them demonstrate applied/practical knowledge.

(I'm sure someone is going to comment saying that they already do this or whatever, but I'm talking about the general concept of standardized testing, still hugely pervasive. It's deprecated. No one needs to spend time learning off anything they can easily look up on their phone. Instead they should be learning how to take knowledge and apply it)

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chiefnak t1_j0vq8cr wrote

Probably some good ol in person hand written prompts in cursive

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[deleted] t1_j0vb80z wrote

[deleted]

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foxhelp t1_j0vf47o wrote

The high school principal I talked with said it is actually a good thing this came about, as it is forcing them to rethink:

  • what kind of questions they ask in class/essays
  • evaluation methods that have largely been static
  • learning outcomes
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MoominTheFirst t1_j0vgnmh wrote

“You’ll hear how wrong it can be and sound very correct.” It’s on Reddit?

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TheRetenor t1_j0vhmkw wrote

This chatgpt just wrote a formally correct proof for my numerical linear algebra class...

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saluke t1_j0vkezm wrote

Teaching secondary school. Already caught some using it. Easily to spot, difficult to do something against.

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MoominTheFirst t1_j0vghwl wrote

May have to start writing them in person or while being monitored.

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BlastMyLoad t1_j0w1bor wrote

It needs a bit more refinement imo even when resetting instances and changing up my language I find it uses the same style of writing and verbiage all the time.

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KingJTheG t1_j0vh28f wrote

ChatGPT helped me on all my essays. I go to a big private university and I’m one of the smarter students so my professors already expect the quality from my essays pre-gpt. Saved me SOOO MUCH STRESS. I had, at one point, 7 papers I had to do before the semester ended

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cda555 t1_j0vrnz1 wrote

Does it include citations? I’ve never had an essay that didn’t require citations.

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KingJTheG t1_j0vtid6 wrote

My stuff was related to the business school so the papers in question weren’t the type for citation. I should also add that I didn’t use it so brazenly as some others seem to be doing. I think if I had to put a number on it, I guess it’s a 65/35 split with 35% being the gpt assisted portions. I write my papers in a distinct way

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3_layers_deep t1_j0xdmc7 wrote

You can't just spit in a prompt and get a high quality essay out(yet).

What you should do is use it as a tool. Provide it with decent inputs, do some editing and squeeze in sources on the back end. It will turn a 3 hour writing project into a 30 minute one.

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TheDadThatGrills t1_j0vzvft wrote

You're using the tools at your disposal to deliver a polished final product in an efficient manner. Personally, I love using it as a personal office assistant- it has made work life significantly easier.

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QuantenMechaniker t1_j0xeux1 wrote

its already there. just go to /r/professors and look for the posts on this very topic. right now, unis have no procedure for dealing with it, so the profs are finding their own ways.

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[deleted] t1_j0z5dhn wrote

I’m in finals week, I’ve used this thing for every exam so far lol

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santichrist t1_j0vqwhn wrote

Everyone acting like this is a problem is very funny to me

The solution is to simply implement some form of system that requires students to run programs like keyloggers to monitor their input while writing their essays and won’t accept them without the accompanying “proof” they wrote it themselves

It’s not that hard

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Mrnessalk t1_j0vzkar wrote

First of all, no one is installing a keylogger onto their personal computer. Secondly, they can just.. retype it? I don't understand how that would prove they wrote it themselves.

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3_layers_deep t1_j0xdu1h wrote

Actually, Google Docs already does what he described. It records every keystroke as you enter the data and you can go back and look at the changes.

Also, nobody types out a complete essay in one go. You will have to put more effort into it than that. Still doable though.

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