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Proper_Cold_6939 OP t1_j0vrz18 wrote

Reply to comment by txc_vertigo in Pro-tip: If a well reviewed book has a Goodread's rating of around 3.5 then it's usually interesting by Proper_Cold_6939

Moby Dick I noticed being 3.53 too. That one's weird, because the 'classics' people were forced to read in school usually seem to range between 3.6 to 3.9 (Catcher's currently about 3.81). People must really not be into fishing.

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Trick-Two497 t1_j0vs8g3 wrote

Maybe the discussion of the skin on a whale penis is what keeps it out of high school classrooms.

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Error8 t1_j0vu2d1 wrote

Here I was thinking it was the gay marriage at the beginning.

Edit: For the haters who are downvoting me - I was making a bit of a joke, but it's a joke based on the text of the book. From chapter 10:

"If there yet lurked any ice of indifference towards me in the Pagan's breast, this pleasant, genial smoke we had, soon thawed it out, and left us cronies. He seemed to take to me quite as naturally and unbiddenly as I to him; and when our smoke was over, he pressed his forehead against mine, clasped me round the waist, and said that henceforth we were married; meaning, in his country's phrase, that we were bosom friends; he would gladly die for me, if need should be. In a countryman, this sudden flame of friendship would have seemed far too premature, a thing to be much distrusted; but in this simple savage those old rules would not apply."

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Trick-Two497 t1_j0vx7d1 wrote

If there was a gay marriage, I missed it, but I did not miss the discussion of whale penis skin.

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Error8 t1_j0w1e6z wrote

I was making a bit of a joke, but it's in chapter 10.

"If there yet lurked any ice of indifference towards me in the Pagan's breast, this pleasant, genial smoke we had, soon thawed it out, and left us cronies. He seemed to take to me quite as naturally and unbiddenly as I to him; and when our smoke was over, he pressed his forehead against mine, clasped me round the waist, and said that henceforth we were married; meaning, in his country's phrase, that we were bosom friends; he would gladly die for me, if need should be. In a countryman, this sudden flame of friendship would have seemed far too premature, a thing to be much distrusted; but in this simple savage those old rules would not apply."

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Trick-Two497 t1_j0w2l93 wrote

Yeah, the author explains in this passage exactly what is means, and it doesn't mean marriage as a New Englander would mean marriage.

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Error8 t1_j0w43l5 wrote

Hence the joke.

I only meant to take a lighthearted jab at our modern American conservative school boards threatening to remove all literature that even hints at homoeroticism. I understand Melville was making something of a joke of it himself, but the scene is undeniably homoerotic, and those are Queequeg's words.

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BruceChameleon t1_j0xfl94 wrote

Melville had a penchant for it. His letters to Hawthorne read very romantically now.

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Error8 t1_j0xr6pm wrote

We really lost a lot of male emotional connectivity in the last century. It's tragic how many men have grown lonely and then bitter in our atomized society.

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Trick-Two497 t1_j0w67n1 wrote

I'm just explaining why I didn't remember there being a gay marriage in the book.

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AtraMikaDelia t1_j0w13mv wrote

There's some discussion of two characters who are friends, and one of them describes it as being similiar to being married. I forget the exact wording.

If you want to read into it, then it sounds like they are gay. If you don't, then it just sounds like they are good friends.

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Error8 t1_j0w65lh wrote

The wording isn't similar, it is exact. Queequeg tells Ishmael that they are married while their foreheads are pressed together and Queequeg holds him. That said, Ishmael doesn't interpret the act as a western-style marriage and Queequeg doesn't mean it as one.

Queequeg is Polynesian; it's known that historically Polynesians had intimate partners of the same sex. The Maori word Takatapui was employed for such companions. Obviously, the idea of gayness as it is understood now cannot really be applied to people of that era and cultural context, but I think it's fair to say that it was a little gay.

Here's the exact wording, from chapter 10:

"If there yet lurked any ice of indifference towards me in the Pagan's breast, this pleasant, genial smoke we had, soon thawed it out, and left us cronies. He seemed to take to me quite as naturally and unbiddenly as I to him; and when our smoke was over, he pressed his forehead against mine, clasped me round the waist, and said that henceforth we were married; meaning, in his country's phrase, that we were bosom friends; he would gladly die for me, if need should be. In a countryman, this sudden flame of friendship would have seemed far too premature, a thing to be much distrusted; but in this simple savage those old rules would not apply."

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SufficientStudy5178 t1_j0wmxia wrote

Every culture historically, and currently, has/had members who 'had intimate partners of the same sex'?

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That-Requirement-285 t1_j0xse1x wrote

They mean that the attitudes of specific Polynesian cultures towards homosexuality was less prejudiced and repressive.

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Trick-Two497 t1_j0w2cot wrote

People weren't as homophobic back then as they are now, so they talked that way without feeling like anyone would judge them as being gay. I believe they're just saying they are close confidants, not gay.

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Proper_Cold_6939 OP t1_j0vsca0 wrote

lol, probably. But you also see a lot of people arriving at these books from '1001' type lists, and it not being what they expect.

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Jack_Harmony t1_j0wzxf1 wrote

Imho it’s could be the effect of “Fiinee… but only because I have to”. People start the book because they feel it’s an obligation being a classic and all and might just not be what they’re looking for.

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conspicuousperson t1_j0wyo5b wrote

Moby Dick is one of my favorite books, but it is not an easy read. It's written in a style that is evocative of Shakespeare.

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buttered_jesus t1_j0xbsr4 wrote

Currently making my way through Moby Dick on audio. I'm thoroughly enjoying it and glad I'm taking the ride but I definitely understand it not being for everyone. Large portions of it feel like you're reading a 48-post Twitter thread.

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lydiardbell t1_j123vf9 wrote

@CallMeIshmael

Oh, I could squeeze that sperm forever! #whalefacts 47/?

♥️ 100 🔁 12 💬 12K

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That-Requirement-285 t1_j0xpyb3 wrote

Love Moby Dick but I think the amount of whale facts (half of which turned out to be not very accurate) may have turned people off.

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