Submitted by Gen_Give_Me_My_Medal t3_zxcoa0 in books

Hello all. I've never been part of a book club before and thought this would be the best sub to get advice from. Apologies in advance for formatting, I'm on mobile.

I recently joined a book club (my first) and after our next meeting I get to present the book choices. The way our club works (don't know if this is standard practice or not) is that one person picks 3 books, and then everyone votes on which one seems the most interesting. The winning book becomes the one we read and discuss at the next meeting. Our first book was a self help book filled with essays and was pretty long, so we decided to dedicate two meetings to it. Since I was the only person who finished the book by the first meeting I was given the choice to pick the next round of books to choose.

Originally, I was going to pick some classic female-led novels (think Jane Eyre, Pride and Prejudice, etc), and I was worried even then about these choices due to how difficult older novels can be to read (although my hope was that now that we wouldn't have to read these for a class and a grade we would find that older books are more enjoyable than we remembered). But recently, I don't have that urge anymore. I know that my urge to pick Holocaust related content is due to my frustration at public figures denying it was a real event, I have no problem admitting that. However, since a book club is supposed to be a relaxing experience (or so I'm assuming) I'm not sure if picking such a heavy topic will make people unhappy, or make them not want to read. I want this to be an enjoyable experience for everyone, and I'm worried that I'm letting my own personal frustrations cloud my judgment. Again, I'm worried about making this unenjoyable for everyone else. It's hard to read a book about the Holocaust and walk away happy, even if the ending is happy. I've read a few Holocaust related books- the content really lingers with you even after the final word is read.

And before anyone asks why I don't ask the other members their opinion- I've only met them (literally) once, so I don't feel comfortable. I've also thought about making two lists (original classic female led novel list vs Holocaust list) and presenting them, but I felt like that would be too much since I would be offering 6 book options basically. I am also worried about the idea that if some people vote for the Holocaust list, then other people would be pressured to agree to that list even if they didn't want to.

So, from fellow book readers or potential book club members, I was wondering your thoughts? If it is okay to offer Holocaust books, or should I drop the subject?

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Better_Lime1901 t1_j1zhmek wrote

Since you've got three options how about one classic, one holocaust, and maybe another easier book if you're concerned. It doesn't sound like your picks all have to be the same theme.

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Gen_Give_Me_My_Medal OP t1_j20aytm wrote

Yeah, I suppose picks don't have to be all one theme, it's just that the first three books were all one theme so I thought of sticking with that you know?

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pallas_athenaa t1_j1zidt9 wrote

I dont think you'd be an asshole but I do think the Holocaust tends to be a bit overdone in literature (speaking as an Eastern European Jew who reads a LOT of Holocaust literature). I like to think book clubs can be used as a vehicle to expand thinking and knowledge... most "regular" people don't deny the Holocaust but there are a lot of other historical events that happened to other marginalized people that don't get nearly the same amount of attention. Maybe pick one of those?

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Gen_Give_Me_My_Medal OP t1_j20c448 wrote

That's a fair point. I acknowledge that my focus on the Holocaust is due to the rise in antisemitism that is happening, but I do agree that the average person isn't denying it happened. Do you have any suggestions on other historical events that don't get as much focus?

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pallas_athenaa t1_j20xvtl wrote

Books about the Apartheid, North Korea, Native American culture, pretty much any non-white group in the United States (but try to find books that are written by people from that culture).

Some ideas: Farewell to Manzanar (this is a kids book though) by Jeanne Wakatsuki Houston (Japanese internment camps in the US)

Things Fall Apart by Chinua Achebe (European colonization)

The House on Mango Street by Sandra Cisneros (Mexican American culture)

The Kite Runner by Khaled Hosseini (I really recommend this one) (military intervention in Afhanistan)

Pachinko by Min Jin Lee (a Korean family living in Japan)

The Hate U Give by Angie Thomas (police violence against Black men in the US)

There's a lot out there if excellent novels that provide fresh perspectives on other systems of oppression.

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IDontEvenKnowThisKid t1_j20zu9b wrote

I would like to second the suggestion for The Hate U Give. The author tied in lyrics from Tupac (he's responsible for the book's title) and can generate conversation for the book club around the poetry of rap lyrics as well as the realities of police violence in the US.

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WholeBeautiful4194 t1_j2210av wrote

What happened in Rwanda. Many people don't realize the full extent of what happened and many don't realize how involved a few European nations were in supporting the genocide.

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emeryldmist t1_j1zib6l wrote

Do your 3 books have to be on the same topic?

If not pick Jane Eyre, a heavy book about the holocaust, and possibly a survivor memoir that goes beyond the holocaust.

You have a 2/3 chance of discussing your chosen topic, but if the group can't deal they have an option.

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musicalnerd-1 t1_j1zl1c9 wrote

I think it depends on what books your book club usually reads. If it’s usually light books, a holocaust book would be misplaced, but if others also have picked heaver books I don’t see a problem

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-rba- t1_j1zk843 wrote

Book clubs are interesting because you want to pick something substantial enough to have something to discuss, but you want people to actually read the book, and in most cases you don't want something totally depressing. It partly depends on the "feel" of the club which can be hard to assess if you're new.

I would say pick one book that is more Holocaust focused and two others that would be acceptable to you but which are not about the Holocaust. Give the club some flexibility in what they vote for.

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Ritehandwingman t1_j1zhqow wrote

NTA, but only if they’re ok with it. Maybe pick a different topic for now or a couple other book genres to suggest with a holocaust book, and when it comes back to you, and you’re a little more attuned to the likes and dislikes of the group, then suggest the holocaust.

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justabunch0flett3rs t1_j1zmr1m wrote

NTA.Well it really depends if you think the others in the club prefer deep conversations or enjoyable time. But offer other options than that. It isn't really enjoyable but talking about it opens our mind a lot, so if you think your club will like this kind of conversation,do it.

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pretenditscherrylube t1_j1znyve wrote

NTA, but I wouldn’t want to read a Holocaust book in my bookclub unless it was exceptional and timely to our discussion. I understand creeping antisemitism is a problem, but the most acute examples are concentrated in certain populations that aren’t in my bookclub. Whenever we read books about topics we know a lot about, we end up having bad discussions.

If you want to have a discussion about antisemitism, why not read one of the recent books about Jewish identity and grappling with the Holocaust. I really enjoyed “Plunder” by Menachem Kaiser. I also heard good things about “People Love Dead Jews”.

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skullfullofbooks t1_j1zjwfu wrote

If you want one book about it as an option I think you'd be fine, just offer other topic options in the other two.

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20above t1_j1zl3wh wrote

Maybe one option can be a classic, another can be the Holocaust and the third can be a graphic novel dealing with a historical topic in general like March, Persepolis, They Called Us Enemy or the Holocaust graphic novel Maus. I find sometimes heavy subjects are easier to read in graphic novel form.

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donnie8986 t1_j1zhgmk wrote

What about the topic of genocide in general?

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Rkins_UK_xf t1_j1zm7m6 wrote

I picked Primo Levi’s ‘The Periodic Table’ for my book group. I think his writing style is so brilliantly gentle. It feels to me like he is holding your hand safe, so that you can bear witness to the horror, but that he won’t let you tip over the edge.

My choice was not popular.

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Fearless-Currency-65 t1_j20v3hg wrote

This or Man's Search For Meaning are great shouts.

Edit: aha, it WASN'T popular, guess I think too much of the average book club participant

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Rkins_UK_xf t1_j216r9p wrote

I was deeply disappointed in my friends. I still love them though.

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Fearless-Currency-65 t1_j217bvt wrote

Ah I mean, I guess you've got to know your audience, eh. I learned my lesson after pushing the wrong books on the wrong people for years - and of having the same done to me, too.

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norvalito t1_j1zwfnv wrote

NTA, but equally I don't think you should pick a Holocaust book as your intro choice to the group. Choose something less heavy as your first selection and get the lay of the lan more.

Once you know the group a bit better, you'll know what they can cope with and what they can't. I'd feel a bit wary about someone bringing in something so heavy first up, I'd assume it's all they care about and that they'd be a total buzzkill to the group as a whole.

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pjmackenzie t1_j20tkxc wrote

Asking a person to pick the next titles for a book club at their first meeting is kind of a big order. Of course, you have no idea what kinds of books the group usually reads. I'd ask for a list of what they've read at least in the last year. That would give some idea of what they seem to prefer. That doesn't mean you have to stick with it, but if they've been reading lighter fare, you may not want to veer suddenly into the dark reaches of the human psyche. I'd want to be sure the group wanted such serious discussions. Not all book groups do. Some just like to get together and chat with the general topic of a book, without many of them actually having read it. It may be that you'll want to find another group for serious discussions. And that's okay, there are lots of book groups out there, f2f and virtual.

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Still-Mirror-3527 t1_j21sdns wrote

Pick

  1. Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen; a classic feminist novel.
  2. Night by Elie Wiesel; a scarring memoir about the Holocaust.
  3. All the Light We Cannot See by Anthony Doerr; a novel set during WW2 that will give you two conflicting perspectives of the war from a blind French girl during the Paris invasion and a German boy whose skills make him a valuable member of the military.

I think these selections give wiggle room for your group as the third novel isn't solely focused on the Holocaust.

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PansyOHara t1_j1zq5qv wrote

NTA but I do agree with providing 2-3 different choices and maybe doing a short blurb about each one.

Not sure if this will read Holocaust to you, but I will put in a plug for Herman Wouk’s The Winds of War and War and Remembrance. W&R was issued in a book club edition as 2 volumes, and WW is a fairly thick book. WW is basically a prequel to W&R, and W&R can be read as a standalone. These are novels and really give a global overview of WWII, although the Holocaust is of course a major element.

I’ve read the whole trilogy several times, and despite the length it’s a pretty fast-moving story with a cast of well-drawn characters. My sister isn’t a big reader although she’s a WWII buff, and she liked it a lot. IMO Wouk’s writing can be a little clunky, but again it’s a story that is gripping and is based on actual events, although the main characters are fictional. Historical personages make cameo appearances: FDR, Harry Hopkins, several naval admirals and Army generals, Hitler, Churchill, and Stalin (possibly a few more I don’t recall). The historical characters for the most part have dialog that is documented.

IMO the story and writing provide lots of material for discussion, and the whole storyline about Hitler’s plan for a Final Solution is eye-opening.

These books were published in the 1970s but should be easy to obtain in paper or electronic format.

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boxer_dogs_dance t1_j201dar wrote

There are a wide variety of books about the Nazis.

What about suggesting one book about the rise of fascism like Guerin's the Brown Plague or Goodbye to Berlin,

One book about civilians under fascism like Hans Fallada Alone in Berlin or a mission for the Nazis like a Small Death in Lisbon

One Holocaust survivor story like the Hiding Place or Night by Wiesel, or Man's Search for Meaning

Another option is fiction or nonfiction about the Warsaw ghetto.

There is a rich heritage of art and memoir on this topic.

There are even adventure stories like the Perfect Horse

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littleoldlady71 t1_j211tz5 wrote

There’s a little known gem called 50 Children: One Ordinary American Couple's Extraordinary Rescue Mission Into the Heart of Nazi Germany by Steven Pressman

I stumbled across it, and it brings up a lot more questions than it answers.

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Grace_Alcock t1_j212l8o wrote

If you are going to do the Holocaust, maybe go with non-fiction. The Diary of Dawid Sierakowiak is the diary of a teenage in the Łódź Ghetto and is excellent.

Or, maybe something like King Leopold’s Ghost about the Belgian Congo.

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Catsandscotch t1_j21j6n3 wrote

I would consider waiting until it’s your turn again to select the options. Give yourself time to get to know other members and also to build some trust in the group. To have honest and respectful discussions about such a challenging topic can be hard in a group where people have yet to build connection. I’ve been in a book club for a little over a year. It’s made up of people who were connected in a loose social network but none of us were really close. Initially we stuck to fiction choices, usually highly regarded authors or well reviewed titles. After we had been together several months, we started moving towards work that was more challenging or just heavier or controversial topics. We’ve had some great discussion because we took time to get to know each other before tackling some of the harder stuff

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religionlies2u t1_j228no7 wrote

My book club loves meaty books. The deeper the topic the better the discussion.

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TheFinchleyBaby t1_j22hgi8 wrote

There are already some great suggestions in this thread, but I’d like to recommend some second-generation Holocaust texts. (Second-generation, here, refers to texts written by or about the children of those who witnessed the Shoah):

The Holocaust Kid by Sonia Pilcer (story cycle)

I Was a Child of Holocaust Survivors by Bernice Eisenstein (graphic novel)

The Waiting Room by Liza Kosher (novel)

The Speed of Light by Elizabeth Rosner (novel)

Secondhand Smoke by Thane Rosenbaum (novel)

Many of these could be better classified as autobiographical fiction (that is, they blend lived experiences with fictive elements).

For context, I’m a literature PhD student who has taken classes on Holocaust literature and taught several survivor and second-generation short stories and novels. In my experience, most folks find it’s easier to comprehend and discuss second-generation texts than those written by survivors, especially in more casual settings (such as a book club). Maybe this is because second-generation texts allow groups to discuss not only the history, but also the memories, traumas, and legacies that that history continues to leave in its wake. You could also have conversations about family dynamics, especially parent-child relationships, domestic space, communication styles, etc.

I hope your choices go over well!

(Edited for formatting—damn you, mobile!)

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lucia-pacciola t1_j24qq8x wrote

Well if you're making a book club do anything, you're doing it wrong.

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Deliriums_BabelFish t1_j2celg7 wrote

My question would be WHAT book about the Holocaust? Is it something people may have already read or touched upon in school that they may not want to reread or feel like they're reading something similar (ex: lots of people read The Diary of Anne Frank and/or Night by Elie Wiesel), or are you looking to read something like a full on history book?

Personally I would want to avoid something really history-heavy themed if it was for a book club, but would be interested in something that may offer a new perspective or structure - something like Markus Zusak's The Book Thief or Art Spiegelman's MAUS (the latter of which has been recently challenged AND offers the new perspective and structure of the graphic novel format)

As for the thematics, there's nothing wrong with selecting something with difficult topics or themes. It also begs the question of what is the "vibe" of your book club? Are they looking for something specific like new releases? romance? maybe look at the previous selections and see what you can discern.

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