erleichda29 t1_irypuvi wrote on October 12, 2022 at 12:54 AM

Reply to comment by hanafraud in Endangered gray wolves are being poisoned in Washington state, officials say by zsreport

I don't think "the habitat" requires human assistance. We just need to stay out of it. I wish we had huge protected areas that no one was allowed to use for any reason.

Leather-Mirror-86 t1_irzcmcw wrote on October 12, 2022 at 4:03 AM

You're espousing what is often referred to as "the pristine myth". Humans have been here, actively managing the land, for thousands of years before European settlement. There is no chance of ever returning to the environmental state that existed before humans stepped foot in the Americas. That world is gone forever, and it doesn't make any ecological sense for humans to just "stay out of it". We're way beyond that point. Any landscape that is affected by human actions requires management. It's silly and unrealistic to think that any good would be done by just locking up vast swaths of land and not allowing any form of use.

erleichda29 t1_is0tpz1 wrote on October 12, 2022 at 2:08 PM

Wow. And you are espousing the "everything belongs to humans" theory created by religion. We are not the owners or the rulers of the planet. It's sad that you don't understand that.

Leather-Mirror-86 t1_is0uoqf wrote on October 12, 2022 at 2:15 PM

I didn't say anything about religion. Try a Google search on the pristine myth and do some reading before commenting.

erleichda29 t1_is0yylz wrote on October 12, 2022 at 2:45 PM

I know what the pristine myth is. Maybe you should do some reading if you aren't aware of the source for beliefs about human superiority.

Leather-Mirror-86 t1_is2n4op wrote on October 12, 2022 at 9:15 PM

I didn't say anything about human superiority, either. There's no denying that humans have had an impact on the landscape, but it's utterly foolish to believe that we can just expect conditions to get better by doing nothing at all. We've made the mess ourselves, and we can't return to a mythical time where humans didn't have an impact, because those environmental and climatic conditions no longer exist. It is our ethical obligation to the land to manage it to the best of our ability, using scientific data as our foundation. Suggestions otherwise are of no use to those of us actively engaged in the work.

hanafraud t1_iryq5mz wrote on October 12, 2022 at 12:56 AM

That is absolutely not how it works anymore. Maybe a couple hundred years ago but we have destroyed the earth and we now have to actively manage it to help wildlife.

Edit: and we do have huge areas like that. National parks and refuges often don’t allow vehicles or camping. They might allow hiking but people don’t usually get off trails and if you aren’t allowed to camp, then you can’t get very far.

sleeknub t1_irz86cl wrote on October 12, 2022 at 3:22 AM

What national parks don’t allow camping? All of the ones in Washington do.