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realif3 t1_irxfle9 wrote

Reply to comment by Unique_Engineering_3 in Endangered gray wolves are being poisoned in Washington state, officials say by zsreport

Well if you're livelihood is connected to livestock in any way...

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curatedcliffside t1_irxhlc6 wrote

Livestock deaths are mostly on public land where ranchers turn their cattle out unsupervised. With simple deterrence there is little to no predation.

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realif3 t1_irxj3x9 wrote

Sure but with a average population increase of 25 percent year it's only a matter of time before they end up causing conflicts on actual private fenced off ranches. I was just trying to put my feet on someone else's shoes. I wouldn't poison wolves, that's just wrong, but I wouldn't like them either.

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bwc_28 t1_irxk9vd wrote

Ranchers are an antiquated relic who provide zero tangible benefits to society, and continually lead to the destruction of our planet's fragile ecosystem. We absolutely should be prioritizing wolves over ranchers. The reality is we no longer need red meat, especially at the exorbitant cost to the planet.

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[deleted] t1_iryg1cz wrote

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bwc_28 t1_iryoslh wrote

The issue with ranching is that land you mention is a small fraction used for cattle. Red meat consumption is causing the amazon rainforest to be clear cut, it's causing old growth forests to be razed. That's absolutely devastating to our planet and is directly making climate change worse. The reality is red meat consumption is terrible for the environment.

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parejaloca79 t1_iryrdiw wrote

How much red meat do we import from the Amazon?

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[deleted] t1_irzke9d wrote

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parejaloca79 t1_irzkn3j wrote

I agree its not a good environment for grazing but the previous commenter talked about the Amazon being destroyed for ranching and raising beef, red meat, implying that the US is part of that problem. My question is how much red meat is the US importing from the Amazonian región?

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sleeknub t1_irz8mfs wrote

Cattle is good for the planet in many of these areas, not bad for it. The US was home to millions and millions of bison not very long ago, and cattle provide many of the same ecosystem services when allowed to graze. Ideally we’d have bison, but cattle do a good job in their stead.

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bwc_28 t1_is1hvj8 wrote

I'd be ecstatic if we had millions of free roaming bison in America, but we both know that's not how modern ranching operates.

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sleeknub t1_is3f7f1 wrote

They don’t have to be free roaming in the sense of being able to go anywhere they want, but many ranches have quite a bit of land that the cattle can roam. There are bison ranches around, so it’s definitely doable.

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realif3 t1_irxszgq wrote

I have a well rounded diet but I still like eating a steak a few times a year. Id argue the ecosystem isn't fragile, it's actually quite robust. It's us who are fragile, nature will endure long after we are gone. Chernobyl is a good example

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redandrew02 t1_irycuyk wrote

“Zero tangible benefit” lol try getting your food from some place that isn’t a grocery store for once

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GodsSwampBalls t1_iryftp9 wrote

They said ranchers, not farmers and red meat, not all meat.

Try reading the whole comment before you reply. It's a good way to avoid sounding stupid.

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redandrew02 t1_iryhah7 wrote

“Not all ranchers use poison” “Not all factory farms let rats into their meat blend” “Not all tofu is environmentally friendly because of trucks” “Not all meat” Sheesh

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redandrew02 t1_irygyyr wrote

And factory farms are supposed to be better than independent ranchers who actually take care of the animals? “Not all X” is an asinine argument when we are arguing over the perceived morality of meat production. Try having something useful to add if you’re gonna be snarky.

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firephoto t1_irytlsi wrote

Pro-tip, build a real fence instead of a folksy one out of 3 strands barbed wire. My animals are safe, anyone's animals can be safe, we have the technology, and if I'm not mistaken a cattle rancher has a lot of spare time on their hands to build that fence. The story you've told over coffee 200 times can miss a few sessions while you put up woven wire with an electric top. Sheep people know this and everything kills sheep so why aren't cattle protected in the same way? Interesting isn't it..

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sleeknub t1_irz7age wrote

Or just normal people who enjoy the outdoors.

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Unique_Engineering_3 t1_irxkryy wrote

As if the ranchers were paid for the cattle they lose. The cattle they were planning on killing anyway.

Yup… the rancher’s are really “suffering” here with their made up “victim” status.

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KittenKoder t1_irykc29 wrote

The amount of "livestock" that are destroyed for no reason other than to drive prices up, the wolves would be doing them a favor.

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realif3 t1_irylbo8 wrote

I'm not in support of what they do. Just putting myself in someone else's shoes. It's been a conflict since the first days of animal husbandry.

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