Submitted by richybacan69 t3_10n4txo in Futurology
rivenwyrm t1_j679ob0 wrote
Just an FYI but Isaac Arthurs' wife appears to be a holocaust apologist and is campaigning against good teaching practices as an elected official in Ohio.
I chose to stop watching his channel but of course to each their own.
> "You should talk about these atrocities that have happened in history, but you also do have an obligation to point out the value that each individual brings to the table," Fowler Arthur said.
supermegaampharos t1_j67y2y8 wrote
I’m sorry, what?
I listened to the video where Sarah Arthur is speaking to an interviewer. Is that everything or is there more to this?
Her point seems to have been about reading the perspectives of everybody involved, including the individuals committing the atrocities. Specifically, she mentioned reading the perspectives of a Polish person sent to a camp, a Jewish person also sent to a camp, and a German soldier. I don’t know if that kind of thing is appropriate for a teenager to read, but there’s definitely value in reading about what the bad guys where thinking and getting a thorough understanding of how and why an atrocity like this happened.
I’ll grant you that referring to Holocaust victims in the “hundreds of thousands” rather than millions was really sketchy, but given how hard she was stumbling on her words, I didn’t interpret that as an anti-Semitic dog whistle.
There’s more to this story, right?
rivenwyrm t1_j68znbc wrote
You're free to interpret what she said according to your own understanding of things but here's my perspective:
Direct quote:
> “What we do not want is for someone to come in and say, ‘Well, obviously, the German government was right in saying that an Aryan race is superior to all other races, and therefore they were acting rightly when they murdered hundreds of thousands of people for having a different color of skin,’” Fowler Arthur said. “We believe that that is anti-American, and that it goes against everything that America stands for.First...
She demonstrates a massive lack of historical understanding: The Nazis genocided (in cold blood) at least 6 million Jews and many million other minorities, Polish people, Czechs, and other Eastern Europeans. Then she never corrects her statement when she's called out for this inaccuracy. This conversation is occurring in the context of this woman writing and cosponsoring legislation which directly impacts how the holocaust is taught in schools.
Second, Jews weren't murdered for having a different skin color, they were murdered because Hitler was an evil insane anti-semite who over time turned Germany into a genocide machine.
> “And so we want to be clear that yes, you should talk about these atrocities that have happened in history, but you also do have an obligation to point out the value that each individual brings to the table,” Fowler Arthur said. “And to encourage students to think of their peers with respect and courtesy, and appreciate them for who they are.”
This is classic Nazi apologism. First the person says something kinda tame like this. If they get no push back then the person says something like "Oh yeah and how about Rommel? What a brilliant general, he wasn't really involved in the concentration camps you know." If they don't get push back they follow it up with something like: "You know that most Germans didn't know about the concentration camps right?". If that doesn't get push back they might follow up with "If someone had just stopped Hitler it wouldn't have happened, it's all his fault you know. But he was right that Germany needed more land."And now all WWII is solely Hitler's fault somehow.
For reference of others who didn't watch the interview:
supermegaampharos t1_j69e3yq wrote
Being wrong about what Judaism is or how many people died in the Holocaust doesn’t make somebody a Nazi apologist.
Does it make them unfit to speak on that subject? Yes. Does this mean that they’re part of some Neo-Nazi shadow conspiracy to corrupt America’s youth? No it doesn’t.
You sound like you’re some chronically online guy who has nothing better to do than spam a totally unrelated subreddit about how a politician you don’t like is secretly a Nazi.
rivenwyrm t1_j69v5gc wrote
> Being wrong about what Judaism is or how many people died in the Holocaust doesn’t make somebody a Nazi apologist.
I agree. However refusing to correct the record after you're called out and instead saying some mealy mouthed BS does make you one.
> “I want to apologize for the unconscionable position that has been wrongfully attributed to me, a position that I personally find abhorrent," Fowler Arthur said. "These views are not who I am or what I believe. Period."
This is basically saying "I did nothing wrong".
However she did later correct the record but not with the actual news station or news articles, just on her facebook page:
> Just to be clear: The Nazis were evil. They murdered millions of Jews. They murdered millions of other people too, which included thousands of people of different races, many of which were German citizens of African Descent, as I mentioned in my comments.
This is a lot better than nothing but she needs to make an actual official statement, not just a facebook post. This isn't table stakes, she's an elected government official.
> Does it make them unfit to speak on that subject? Yes. Does this mean that they’re part of some Neo-Nazi shadow conspiracy to corrupt America’s youth? No it doesn’t.
Bear in mind this woman said these things in the course of campaigning to pass legislation in Ohio governing how educators discuss the Holocaust...
> You sound like you’re some chronically online guy who has nothing better to do than spam a totally unrelated subreddit about how a politician you don’t like is secretly a Nazi.
I guess that's just like... your opinion man.
Surur t1_j67spnf wrote
From the first article and the video, it seems to be much ado about nothing.
Their counter-example shows the problem:
> "German soldiers, or the Nazis," Pasch clarified. "Would she feel the same way about, like 9/11? Does she want the perspective of the hijackers who flew the planes into buildings? No, because there's moral absolutes, right? And so there aren't two sides to every historical event."
Actually you probably do want to know the perspective of terrorists, if only to know how to prevent repeat incidents.
rivenwyrm t1_j6954pv wrote
There's a way to do this properly and then there's Nazi apologism. Sarah Arthur Fowler appears to be engaging in pretty direct, uneducated and ignorant Nazi apologism. You're free to interpret what she said according to your own understanding of things but here's my perspective:
Direct quote:
> “What we do not want is for someone to come in and say, ‘Well, obviously, the German government was right in saying that an Aryan race is superior to all other races, and therefore they were acting rightly when they murdered hundreds of thousands of people for having a different color of skin,’” Fowler Arthur said. “We believe that that is anti-American, and that it goes against everything that America stands for.First...
She demonstrates a massive lack of historical understanding: The Nazis genocided (in cold blood) at least 6 million Jews and many million other minorities, Polish people, Czechs, and other Eastern Europeans. Then she never corrects her statement when she's called out for this inaccuracy. This conversation is occurring in the context of this woman writing and cosponsoring legislation which directly impacts how the holocaust is taught in schools.
Second, Jews weren't murdered for having a different skin color, they were murdered because Hitler was an evil insane anti-semite who over time turned Germany into a genocide machine.
> “And so we want to be clear that yes, you should talk about these atrocities that have happened in history, but you also do have an obligation to point out the value that each individual brings to the table,” Fowler Arthur said. “And to encourage students to think of their peers with respect and courtesy, and appreciate them for who they are.”
This is classic Nazi apologism. First the person says something kinda tame like this. If they get no push back then the person says something like "Oh yeah and how about Rommel? What a brilliant general, he wasn't really involved in the concentration camps you know." If they don't get push back they follow it up with something like: "You know that most Germans didn't know about the concentration camps right?". If that doesn't get push back they might follow up with "If someone had just stopped Hitler it wouldn't have happened, it's all his fault you know. But he was right that Germany needed more land."And now all WWII is solely Hitler's fault somehow.
For reference of others who didn't watch the interview:
Surur t1_j6994tp wrote
I cant say what she meant by you may be overinterpreting.
johndeuff t1_j67qjjq wrote
Those articles are a mess of ads and text. I can’t even find what we’re supposed to find. What is your quote supposed to mean ? The value of each individuals ?
rivenwyrm t1_j68zwhr wrote
This interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIcYdNF_qUo
> “What we do not want is for someone to come in and say, ‘Well, obviously, the German government was right in saying that an Aryan race is superior to all other races, and therefore they were acting rightly when they murdered hundreds of thousands of people for having a different color of skin,’” Fowler Arthur said. “We believe that that is anti-American, and that it goes against everything that America stands for.
First... She demonstrates a massive lack of historical understanding: The Nazis genocided (in cold blood) at least 6 million Jews and many million other minorities, Polish people, Czechs, and other Eastern Europeans. Then she never corrects her statement when she's called out for this inaccuracy.
Second, Jews weren't murdered for having a different skin color, they were murdered because Hitler was an evil insane anti-semite who over time turned Germany into a genocide machine.
> “And so we want to be clear that yes, you should talk about these atrocities that have happened in history, but you also do have an obligation to point out the value that each individual brings to the table,” Fowler Arthur said. “And to encourage students to think of their peers with respect and courtesy, and appreciate them for who they are.”
This is classic Nazi apologism. First you say something kinda tame like this. If they get no push back then the person says something like "Oh yeah and how about Rommel? What a brilliant general, he wasn't really involved in the concentration camps you know." If they don't get push back they follow it up with something like: "You know that most Germans didn't know about the concentration camps right?". If that doesn't get push back they might follow up with "If someone had just stopped Hitler it wouldn't have happened, it's all his fault you know. But he was right that Germany needed more land."
And now all WWII is solely Hitler's fault somehow.
[deleted] t1_j67o039 wrote
[removed]
rivenwyrm t1_j690gsq wrote
Direct quotes from Sarah Fowler Arthur in her interview https://youtu.be/sIcYdNF_qUo
> “What we do not want is for someone to come in and say, ‘Well,
obviously, the German government was right in saying that an Aryan race
is superior to all other races, and therefore they were acting rightly
when they murdered hundreds of thousands of people for having a
different color of skin,’” Fowler Arthur said. “We believe that that is
anti-American, and that it goes against everything that America stands
for.
This is ignorant and inaccurate.
> “And so we want to be clear that yes, you should talk about these atrocities that have happened in history, but you also do have an obligation to point out the value that each individual brings to the table,” Fowler Arthur said. “And to encourage students to think of their peers with respect and courtesy, and appreciate them for who they are.”
This is classic Nazi apologism.
> “I’ve been personally listening to some audiobooks on the Holocaust lately, and maybe you’re going to listen to the perspective of someone from Poland when they were undergoing similar displacement, or when they were being incorporated into the war, into some of these camps, or maybe you’re listening to it from the perspective of a Jewish person that has gone through the tragedies that took place,” Fowler Arthur said. “And maybe you listen to it from the perspective of a German soldier, then you take all those things and you’re asked to write a paper on what happened.”
This is even more direct Nazi apologism.
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