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napstur OP t1_it37m7q wrote

Reply to comment by SourFix in Power outlets have a faint smell. by napstur

Actually you might have nailed it. These are 10 amp outlets and the breaker is 16 amp. So I need to replace them all?

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limitless__ t1_it395il wrote

10amp outlet? Are you sure about that? I don't think I've ever seen a 10amp outlet. Most residential outlets are 15amp.

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napstur OP t1_it39c4l wrote

10A 240V written on the outlet switches

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Faruhoinguh t1_it3unsk wrote

As far as I know 10 Amp outlets should not be on a 16 Amp breaker because failure mode for drawing too much current is in the outlet or maybe even wiring. So the breaker is then useless. Its a fire hazard. Consider talking to an electrician.

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slashfromgunsnroses t1_it3zlaa wrote

You need to change your breakers to 10 amps also, otherwise you risk unintentionally overloading the outlets/wires or whatever is the "bottleneck".

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electricmama4life t1_it44lha wrote

This is wrong, your breaker amperage should not be the same the outlet amperage. Also, there is no current flowing until a load is connected. Most household loads don't pull anywhere close to 10A. This comment is just completely wrong.

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ErikRedbeard t1_it4wvvl wrote

Without knowing where the other person is from this doesn't mean much.

Where I live outlets are required to have the same rating as the breaker of the circuit. Both 16 Amps. The outlets also don't contain anything in the form of protection.

I can't even buy wall outlets under 16amps rating in DIY markets here. Heck they are exclusively 16amps.

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pyrodice t1_it8tchc wrote

I just had a long thread with them and from what I can see, you'd ALWAYS want the breaker to be the first point of failure, rather than an outlet or the wiring to it. Any chance you can look this over and see if we're all just talking past each other?

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slashfromgunsnroses t1_it46znr wrote

There are plenty of appliances drawing 10 amps like a hoover or a toaster. And ypur breakers should absolutely be dimensioned according to the wiring and othe rinstallation materiel.

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electricmama4life t1_it47z9a wrote

You an electrician?

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slashfromgunsnroses t1_it48kfp wrote

No. But an electrician would spank you if you ever installed breakers over 10 amps along with materials that are not rated for over 10 amps.

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electricmama4life t1_it48zkk wrote

I'm a licensed electrician, been doing it for over 15 years years, you're wrong

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slashfromgunsnroses t1_it49fkd wrote

Thats fine, but its not up to code where im from, and it really makes me wonder about the safety of electrical installations where you are from (unless you are fron the UK with built in fuses in the sockets)

What happens if you plug in a 12 amp appliance into that plug protected by a 16 amp breaker?

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999baz t1_it4ak2b wrote

He’s right, the breaker is only to protect the circuit which might have 10 outlets. The fuse on the plug or the rcd protect the appliance.

Eg Uk ring main has a 32amp breaker for multiple 13amp sockets.

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slashfromgunsnroses t1_it4bpw0 wrote

Where im from theres no fuses in appliances (unless very special), its all protected at the breaker. Our standard 1.5mm2 wiring is designed to handle 13 amps passing through, so these are protected by 13 amp breakers. You cant ever overload the wiring or the sockets (16 amps usually) this way no matter what you plug in.

In the UK design, you should either have some pretty beefy wiring to support a potential 32 amp current or risk overloading the wires with the way its designed. You could potentially hook up 3x10 amp appliances and not have the breaker cut the current and have 30 amps passing through whatever wiring you have 😱

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pyrodice t1_it4yui9 wrote

HOW do you plug in an Appliance which draws more current than the socket is rated? Let me elaborate. Here in the USA where we use 120v, a 15 and a 20 amp socket will both let you plug in 15 amp items. A 15 amp socket will NOT, PHYSICALLY allow you to plug in a 20 amp appliance. they look like this

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slashfromgunsnroses t1_it7cxzw wrote

In denmark the whole installation from socket to breaker must be rated at or higher than the breaker. This way you are also protected from any malfunctions of the appliance - a short circuited appliance can draw many amps, and in that case you really want your installation protected by the breakers.

You can easily have old wiring worth only 10 amps (protected with 10 amp breakers). Have not seen sockets rated below 16 amps, and we only have one standard socket for this (we ofc have some special ones also like CEE and a couple other weird ones), but for normal households its more or less universal.

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pyrodice t1_it7wo8h wrote

But as to my direct question, you're telling me that an appliance that draws more than 10 A would still plug into a socket that is rated for 10 A? I mean they're both the same shape and there's no safety mechanism to prevent that physically?

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slashfromgunsnroses t1_it7y3rj wrote

Yes.

But the safety mechanism lies at the breaker circuit. If your outlet is rated to 10 so must your breaker be. That way there is no risk.

What happens if one of your 10 A appliances fails and starts to draw 16 amps? Say a malfunctioning toaster.

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pyrodice t1_it807kz wrote

Well for our relevant current, the smallest home socket we have is 15 A, but if something did in fact start drawing more like 16, it would probably be a slow heat until the 15 amp circuit breaker tripped, but the breaker, the wiring, and the outlet will all be rated the same if they've been installed correctly.

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slashfromgunsnroses t1_it82de6 wrote

The point is, you can never be sure that the appliance you plug in doesnt draw more than the rating for a long variety of reasons (bad product, damaged, too many appliances connected to the same outlet etc) so if you want a safe installation you should assume this could be the case and install a breaker thats of the lowest rating in the whole system.

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pyrodice t1_it82xhc wrote

Well for us it means the socket and breaker should coordinate, so you can't burn the outlet before something quits.

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slashfromgunsnroses t1_it840gc wrote

That works when the appliances function and people havent put too many things on extension cords... i.e. there are more risks in this design...

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pyrodice t1_it8erjl wrote

That's an externality to what we're discussing though and is equally true of all configurations

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slashfromgunsnroses t1_it8i1x6 wrote

Not really - if the breaker is dimensioned larger than the outlet material you could overload the outlet material by adding too many appliances. If the breaker is dimensioned as the outlet rating the breaker will trip if theres too much current passing through the outlet.

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pyrodice t1_it8ia58 wrote

If the breaker is rated the same as the outlet, and the breaker trips, that is good. You don't want to start a fire in the outlet. You always want a circuit breaker to trip before excess heat is concentrated at another connection point.

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slashfromgunsnroses t1_it8im6z wrote

Exactly.

But the other guys slammed on me for stating this simple fact...

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pyrodice t1_it8k5o4 wrote

I think you should go back and see what you said and see if you misphrased something, then.

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slashfromgunsnroses t1_it8t0zo wrote

Im not sure what that would be - help me out. Think I was pretty clear in my first comment

> You need to change your breakers to 10 amps also, otherwise you risk unintentionally overloading the outlets/wires or whatever is the "bottleneck".

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slashfromgunsnroses t1_it7yoeg wrote

I should add that only installations using old cabling are using 10 A breakers. Standard is 13 A for cables and 16 A for sockets. In practice 16 A is only used for ovens/electric stoves, so theres no need for special sockets.

Its all 240 V so theres plenty of power.

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electricmama4life t1_it4c8aq wrote

it draws 12 amps, a 12 amp appliance will not draw more than 12 amps, that's not how it works

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slashfromgunsnroses t1_it4chxp wrote

Yes, and the outlet is only rated at 10 amps risking that it could overheat and cause an electrical fire...

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cptmcsexy t1_it46mn4 wrote

While this is one way of doing it, the breaker should be fine since it should of been sized approriately for the wire during install, I think he only changed the outlet.

Properly sizing the outlet makes more sense since its cheaper and easier than a new breaker.

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slashfromgunsnroses t1_it4769y wrote

If its only the outlet, absolutely, just change that. But as its installed now its unsafe and would require a 10 amp breaker.

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Diligent_Nature t1_it3cfmx wrote

That's not the outlet rating.

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Angdrambor t1_it3rce7 wrote

lolwut? What is it then? 10A is a perfectly reasonable residential current at 240v.

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MonsterCookieCutter t1_it4bod5 wrote

How much current are you drawing? Having a higher rated breaker doesn’t make your equipment just draw more current. You should not be drawing more than half the current of the weakest link (which ought to be the breaker) for any length of time. Electric kettle, full power is fine. Space heater, no.

Edit: BTW, where I live you don’t see 16A for normal outlets, but 13A is common or 10A for older installations. Your installation sounds dodgy.

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DilettanteGonePro t1_it4y9ik wrote

My brother had an old farmhouse and found out the hard way that there was a run of lower rated wire inside one of the walls. He had a space heater plugged in against the outside wall but someone had added an outlet to an inside wall on the same circuit and used cheaper wire just in that section, so a fire started inside the wall. Luckily he noticed the smoke coming from the outlet as he was heading to bed for the night. If he hadn't noticed it he may not have woken up. He had so many similar crappy DIY problems with that house he probably replaced 60% of the house before he sold it

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