slashfromgunsnroses t1_it49fkd wrote
Reply to comment by electricmama4life in Power outlets have a faint smell. by napstur
Thats fine, but its not up to code where im from, and it really makes me wonder about the safety of electrical installations where you are from (unless you are fron the UK with built in fuses in the sockets)
What happens if you plug in a 12 amp appliance into that plug protected by a 16 amp breaker?
999baz t1_it4ak2b wrote
He’s right, the breaker is only to protect the circuit which might have 10 outlets. The fuse on the plug or the rcd protect the appliance.
Eg Uk ring main has a 32amp breaker for multiple 13amp sockets.
slashfromgunsnroses t1_it4bpw0 wrote
Where im from theres no fuses in appliances (unless very special), its all protected at the breaker. Our standard 1.5mm2 wiring is designed to handle 13 amps passing through, so these are protected by 13 amp breakers. You cant ever overload the wiring or the sockets (16 amps usually) this way no matter what you plug in.
In the UK design, you should either have some pretty beefy wiring to support a potential 32 amp current or risk overloading the wires with the way its designed. You could potentially hook up 3x10 amp appliances and not have the breaker cut the current and have 30 amps passing through whatever wiring you have 😱
electricmama4life t1_it4cfgb wrote
I don't think this guy understands how electricity works
pyrodice t1_it4yui9 wrote
HOW do you plug in an Appliance which draws more current than the socket is rated? Let me elaborate. Here in the USA where we use 120v, a 15 and a 20 amp socket will both let you plug in 15 amp items. A 15 amp socket will NOT, PHYSICALLY allow you to plug in a 20 amp appliance. they look like this
slashfromgunsnroses t1_it7cxzw wrote
In denmark the whole installation from socket to breaker must be rated at or higher than the breaker. This way you are also protected from any malfunctions of the appliance - a short circuited appliance can draw many amps, and in that case you really want your installation protected by the breakers.
You can easily have old wiring worth only 10 amps (protected with 10 amp breakers). Have not seen sockets rated below 16 amps, and we only have one standard socket for this (we ofc have some special ones also like CEE and a couple other weird ones), but for normal households its more or less universal.
pyrodice t1_it7wo8h wrote
But as to my direct question, you're telling me that an appliance that draws more than 10 A would still plug into a socket that is rated for 10 A? I mean they're both the same shape and there's no safety mechanism to prevent that physically?
slashfromgunsnroses t1_it7y3rj wrote
Yes.
But the safety mechanism lies at the breaker circuit. If your outlet is rated to 10 so must your breaker be. That way there is no risk.
What happens if one of your 10 A appliances fails and starts to draw 16 amps? Say a malfunctioning toaster.
pyrodice t1_it807kz wrote
Well for our relevant current, the smallest home socket we have is 15 A, but if something did in fact start drawing more like 16, it would probably be a slow heat until the 15 amp circuit breaker tripped, but the breaker, the wiring, and the outlet will all be rated the same if they've been installed correctly.
slashfromgunsnroses t1_it82de6 wrote
The point is, you can never be sure that the appliance you plug in doesnt draw more than the rating for a long variety of reasons (bad product, damaged, too many appliances connected to the same outlet etc) so if you want a safe installation you should assume this could be the case and install a breaker thats of the lowest rating in the whole system.
pyrodice t1_it82xhc wrote
Well for us it means the socket and breaker should coordinate, so you can't burn the outlet before something quits.
slashfromgunsnroses t1_it840gc wrote
That works when the appliances function and people havent put too many things on extension cords... i.e. there are more risks in this design...
pyrodice t1_it8erjl wrote
That's an externality to what we're discussing though and is equally true of all configurations
slashfromgunsnroses t1_it8i1x6 wrote
Not really - if the breaker is dimensioned larger than the outlet material you could overload the outlet material by adding too many appliances. If the breaker is dimensioned as the outlet rating the breaker will trip if theres too much current passing through the outlet.
pyrodice t1_it8ia58 wrote
If the breaker is rated the same as the outlet, and the breaker trips, that is good. You don't want to start a fire in the outlet. You always want a circuit breaker to trip before excess heat is concentrated at another connection point.
slashfromgunsnroses t1_it8im6z wrote
Exactly.
But the other guys slammed on me for stating this simple fact...
pyrodice t1_it8k5o4 wrote
I think you should go back and see what you said and see if you misphrased something, then.
slashfromgunsnroses t1_it8t0zo wrote
Im not sure what that would be - help me out. Think I was pretty clear in my first comment
> You need to change your breakers to 10 amps also, otherwise you risk unintentionally overloading the outlets/wires or whatever is the "bottleneck".
slashfromgunsnroses t1_it7yoeg wrote
I should add that only installations using old cabling are using 10 A breakers. Standard is 13 A for cables and 16 A for sockets. In practice 16 A is only used for ovens/electric stoves, so theres no need for special sockets.
Its all 240 V so theres plenty of power.
electricmama4life t1_it4c8aq wrote
it draws 12 amps, a 12 amp appliance will not draw more than 12 amps, that's not how it works
slashfromgunsnroses t1_it4chxp wrote
Yes, and the outlet is only rated at 10 amps risking that it could overheat and cause an electrical fire...
[deleted] t1_it4cmcl wrote
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