Lord Henry represented how Oscar Wilde thought other people saw him. Basil was closer to how he saw himself.

I loved Lord Henry, personally. I don't think he took himself at all seriously, and was amused that other people did, when really his only goal was to entertain himself.

Lord Henry wasn't trying to guide Dorian, he was just spouting bullshit he thought Dorian would resonate with, and Dorian Gray took it way too seriously. I thought the character Dorian Gray was an excellent study of a shallow narcissist. For him, beauty could only ever be skin deep, and that's the level he enjoyed all art in his life.

I loved the plausible deniability of the painting's transformation throughout the book, and I found it interesting that Dorian's first and only thought was to live a life that would make him ugly on the inside, rather than one that would have his outer beauty reflect his inner self.

Yep! Generally I will read something or several somethings (short stories, novels, etc) by the author before I do though. What usually inspires me to look them up is noticing recurring patterns across different bodies of work. Sometimes I make some kind of guess about what reasons they could be interested in whatever it is, and then off I go to read more about them.

I have a lot of fun seeing what "theories" of mine have a tiny basis in reality!

In my opinion, a huge theme in the novel is self acceptance and love, as a woman. Throughout the novel Jane is at odds with her own and other's values of femininity. Both Rochester and St. John encourage her and find value in her for things she also values in herself, but from very different perspectives. Ultimately, St. John is very utilitarian in his love for Jane. His first devotion is to God, and he loves Jane for her potential to serve God first and foremost. It's important that Jane is also religious, and not at all opposed to a life of service, even to God, but she wants a partner that loves her first and foremost.

In general I think your whole characterization is uncharitable, to say the least. I didn't find any part of the novel wordy, tedious, or padded. I loved the writing, so to see your comment about a thesaurus was another surprise. Idk, seems like this novel wasn't for you, but when I read it, it was obvious to me why it's stood the test of time.

Yep! I've got pretty good habits for avoiding spoilers "in the wild", my biggest source of spoilers come from people casually mentioning the big twist. My least favorite is when I try to stop people, and they insist on finishing their thought anyways because it's "not a spoiler" in their opinion.

It's hard to convey tone over the internet, but this isn't that big of a deal to me. Even if my friends spoil me, I don't hold on to a grudge or anything, it's more of a funny "how could you" moment.

>After all, isn't the point of the story HOW they get to the crucial moments?

The point of reading can be whatever people want it to. The point when I read is to be entertained, and I am greatly entertained by subversion of expections, which necessarily goes against being spoiled in most cases.

Luckily for me my friend's ask before starting a conversation with me about literature, so I just ask them not to spoil me and they respect my wishes. If someone takes issue with that...well how weird of them to have strong opinions on me not wanting to be spoiled? Sounds like I'd have a hard time if my friends were like the people on this sub

>you really cannot expect all of society to just stop discussing pretty widely disseminated stories just because you haven't gotten there yet.

I didn't mention all of society in my comment, so I'm not sure how they all got involved here? I don't enjoy being spoiled in conversation with other individuals, and I also don't like it when people "defend" their spoiling me just because the story is old...I never said I expected anything of anyone, rather stated my preference for not being spoiled, and frustration at people dismissing my feelings about it just because a book is old.

I really hate how dismissive people can be of spoilers, especially for old stories. Not just that, people will get annoyed at me, because it's obviously a character flaw of mine for not knowing everything already. I understand, some things have been out for hundreds of years, but I haven't been alive and cognizant of the world for that whole time, or had the time to consume every piece of entertainment people consider essential in this day and age, just let me experience an old fucking story without your stupid ass spoiler.

Well now I just feel like you've buried the lede here.

Just to add to what others are saying, some books are written in a way that very much "speeds" you through the text, and the books you're mentioning are pretty intellectually dense. Reading for "fun" means different things to me depending on how I'm feeling. If I'm stressed or tired, but I still want to read, I need something that fits the bill. 1984 is something my brain will want to chew over, so it's more of a fit for when my brain is feeling frisky. I'm very much a person that needs to pick media that fits my mood, or I'll have a miserable experience when I might otherwise be reading my new favorite book. If I find I can't get into a book no matter how much I think I want to, I take it as a sign to just put the book away for now. I've had a lot of success just moving on to something else, and coming back to "problem" novels later.

I bet it helps at least! It wasn't until a native French speaker pointed that out to me that I was finally able to remember once and for all.

I find that most of my favorite media has a sprinkle of reality in it; I think it's common for authors to "borrow" major character traits from people they know, but they aren't necessarily trying to comment on that person at all. I can't confirm this, but something in the ether really makes me feel like it's true.

Something that helped me remember it even more (as in, in addition to your more helpful hint, lol) was making the connection to romance languages: livre, or libros for book in French or Spanish.