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kstinfo t1_jcvfbqb wrote

Click-bate title. If you don't go further it sounds like this kid was killed for a minor offense. Not the case.

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cptjeff t1_jd4002g wrote

Yeah, I opened expecting to read another Bijan Ghaisar story. But, uh, wow. This ain't that.

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underscore_at t1_jcvgu8c wrote

Which offenses should you kill kids for?

−103

kstinfo t1_jcvj8d0 wrote

An open question?

An open answer:

If a kid was trying to kill me I hope I would have no hesitation.

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underscore_at t1_jcy3i66 wrote

I really hope I would hesitate. Ending someone’s life for one mistake? That’s not something you can take back. You’re ruining the lives of everyone around them, too.

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nthomas504 t1_jcy9nvp wrote

So you’d let a kid kill you?

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Most_kinds_of_Dirt t1_jcyyequ wrote

The cop that shot the kid wasn't in any danger:

>The incident began when D.C. police received a call about a suspicious vehicle, and officers found the car parked with the engine running, according to a D.C. police spokesman. The driver appeared to be asleep or nodding off, the spokesman said. The officers ran the tags and determined the vehicle was stolen, according to the spokesman, and called for backup.

>Two Park Police officers responded to the call near 34th and Baker streets NE, said Park Police spokesman Thomas Twiname. They approached the car, and one of them got into the back seat, at which point the driver appeared to wake up and hit the accelerator, the D.C. police spokesman said.

>The officer was “trapped in the vehicle,” Twiname said, and unable to escape. The officer gave commands to stop and then discharged a firearm, Twiname said. The driver was pronounced dead at the scene.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/03/18/park-police-shooting-dc/

There could be justification for the shooting if the other officer was endangered by being "dragged" by the vehicle, but we won't really know until the FOIA request forces them to release the body cam footage.

Unfortunately, even if that officer was "dragged" the cops still could have handled it better (e.g. by not jumping into the backseat unannounced, where the driver may have no idea who you are and -understandably- started to drive away).

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nthomas504 t1_jcz3qim wrote

He stole a car, endangered a cops life, and attempted to flee.

He couldn’t have handled the situation worse. Could the cops have done better? Sure. But this notion that this kid didn’t deserve this is kinda wild. Any death is tragic in some way, but he put himself into this by committing a crime, then becoming violent with the police. At that point, he should have just turned himself in.

I don’t like the how policing is in this country, but this isn’t an example of why.

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Most_kinds_of_Dirt t1_jczcalz wrote

Let's say you're sleeping in the driver's seat of a parked car and somebody you don't know jumps in the back seat.

Do you calmly turn and say "Oh hi, officer - I didn't see you there. How can I help?" - or would it be reasonable to freak out and hit the gas pedal trying to get out of that situation?

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nthomas504 t1_jczk4fi wrote

You missed the important detail that he’s stolen said vehicle. If you are dumb enough to fall asleep in a stolen car and then try to flee, you deserve whatever happens.

Like I said, the cops can always be less violent and improve. But I don’t have any sympathy for those who wrong others, stupid enough to get caught, then put an officers life in danger. I’m said he lost his life needlessly, but im more made at him than the cops.

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Most_kinds_of_Dirt t1_jd00esq wrote

>If you are dumb enough to fall asleep in a stolen car and then try to flee, you deserve whatever happens.

Thank you. There's been a lot of beating around the bush in this thread, but you're one of the only ones brave enough to admit that you think he deserved to die for stealing the car and trying to flee.

Based on their comments, I'm sure that's what other people here are thinking too - but the (likely bullshit) story about the cop being "dragged" by the car offers a fig leaf justification that they can use to pretend it's about officer safety.

I don't agree, by the way - but I have an easier time talking with people who admit they think teenagers should be shot for stealing cars rather than pretending the cops' self-defense claims in this case have any credibility.

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nthomas504 t1_jd01xto wrote

I have plenty of family who’ve done shit like this. I would be sad if they died, but I can’t really blame the cops, I already know they be on that bullshit.

We talk about cops being violent when pulling people over, so why would it been any less dangerous if you become a target that they are attempting to arrest. Kid was walking into a hornets nest, fell asleep by it, then unfortunately got stung.

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LetsAllSmoking t1_jczpmry wrote

What about this 17 year old's actions struck you as "reasonable"?

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Most_kinds_of_Dirt t1_jd00psn wrote

What about the cop surprising a sleeping driver by jumping in the back of a running car struck you as "reasonable"?

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LetsAllSmoking t1_jd0466x wrote

You're really hung up on this sleeping thing as if that somehow makes a difference. The car was stolen, so you get arrested for that sort of thing. And if you're the type to not comply with the police (see: dumbass dead 17 year old), cops are going to have to come into the car to detain you. Shame for us all, really. We're down one future business leader of America here.

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Most_kinds_of_Dirt t1_jd0amxr wrote

>And if you're the type to not comply with the police (see: dumbass dead 17 year old), cops are going to have to come into the car to detain you.

I keep bringing it up because folks like you keep thinking that he was given an opportunity to comply with the cops, even though that's not what the police spokesman claimed.

Read the paragraphs I quoted above again with the cops' description. It says:

  1. The kid was asleep in the car.
  2. The cop jumped in the back seat of the car.
  3. The kid hit the accelerator pedal.
  4. The cop inside the car told him to stop.
  5. The cop inside the car shot him.

Number 3 is a perfectly reasonable reaction when some dude you don't know jumps in the back seat of the car while you're asleep. Not that it would justify his death - but this wasn't a lengthy car chase where the kid knew he was running from the cops. According to the police statements, at most a few seconds passed between the cop surprising the kid awake and shooting him.

The idea that he deserved to die for "not complying" with the cops in the dangerous and volatile situation they created is total bullshit.

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LetsAllSmoking t1_jd0d9ia wrote

> Number 3 is a perfectly reasonable reaction when some dude you don't know jumps in the back seat of the car while you're asleep

What, did the kid think someone was jumping in to steal the car something? lol. The kid had one cop inside the car and sounds like the other was being dragged while reaching in the window or something. You're giving this guy a lot of benefit of the doubt. He knew he was in a stolen car. He saw cops. He tried to run. Oh he also had a gun on him. That's all "perfectly reasonable" behavior for a criminal, you're right.

The idea isn't that he "deserved to die" for "not complying", it's that he got himself killed because he committed a bunch of dangerous crimes.

Couple other things: the ACTUAL victim of the crime, the person whose car was stolen, is a single mom with four kids who works two jobs in addition to going to school herself. This kid didn't care about her, you think he cares about the police (or you?)? Dead guy also had a 5 month old baby. Sounds like he didn't care about that either.

His mom cried at the scene, “You’re supposed to protect us. He was only 17!”. The cops were protecting everyone else from this waste of life, mama!

"Nee Nee Taylor, a community activist with Harriet’s Wildest Dreams, a mutual-aid and community defense organization, was at the scene and criticized the shooting. “Why are police officers getting inside of a vehicle?” she asked. “And why didn’t he just get out?""

Yes, "why didn't he just get out" is also a good question for the now-dead criminal!

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Most_kinds_of_Dirt t1_jd0gzf8 wrote

Remind me to reply when the body cam footage (which the park police have so far refused to release) comes out. If you're right and this was in self defense for the cops, I'll give you a cookie.

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Brickleberried t1_jcw5d4u wrote

I mean, if you're driving away in a stolen car with one officer inside while dragging another one, maybe that one justifies force that could kill a 17-year-old.

Assuming the article is accurate.

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underscore_at t1_jcy3tq5 wrote

How about force that doesn’t end someone’s life?

−8

Brickleberried t1_jcy6sfh wrote

Yeah, if you can, but that's not always possible. The whole "shoot them in the arm thing" is a Hollywood fantasy.

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Most_kinds_of_Dirt t1_jcw9x7h wrote

>Assuming the article is accurate.

Big assumption.

After the news about the Atlanta cops last week I'm not trusting statements put out by the police unless there's a body cam or dashcam video supporting what they say.

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Brickleberried t1_jcwbjsr wrote

> Big assumption.

Exactly. That's why I included it. I don't necessarily trust what the police say, but hopefully there is bodycam footage or something.

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ScottyC33 t1_jcvxk2s wrote

Stupid remark aside, 17 years old isn’t a “kid”. If you can enlist in the military, you aren’t a kid anymore.

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JohnnyFootballStar t1_jcwhn4y wrote

To be honest, that just tells me we allow people to enlist in the military too young, not that 17 year olds are adults.

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Deanocracy t1_jcvk05k wrote

“When did you stop beating your wife” vibes

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underscore_at t1_jcy3o37 wrote

Pretty easy answer: never. The assumption they’re making that it’s every oka to kill someone?

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[deleted] t1_jcvxslu wrote

Say you go back in time and meet a young Hitler…

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drr71-2 t1_jcwk34z wrote

Kidnapping and actively attemptimg to murder a law enforcement officer.... a kid should be killed for that by an officer defending his/her life and the livea of their partners. Move along Monday morning quarterback.

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underscore_at t1_jcy35zk wrote

Hard disagree. Nobody has that right.

−5

drr71-2 t1_jd01prs wrote

So if a 17 yr old is trying to kill you, the officer can't shoot him.... ok... whatever. I want the officer to do whatever will stop the 17 yr old violent felon as fast as possible to ensure that I live. You want to sacrifice your life for a violent felon's, that's your choice.... don't think that others need to sacrifice their lives like that.

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underscore_at t1_jd2sly3 wrote

Characterizing this human being as a “violet felon” is exactly the issue. Maybe you should try empathy.

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drr71-2 t1_jd4q36o wrote

He stole a car, had a gun in the car, and was trying to kill someone by dragging him with that stolen car....by definition that is a violent felon.

Where was the felon's "empathy" for the car owner when we he stole it? Where was the felon's "empathy" for the person he was dragging with the car he stole and that person's family who he was trying to deprive of a father, son, friend, etc.? Oh yeah.... I forgot... there's never any fault placed on the criminal fur their actions that led to the end.... it's so much easier to blame others. Take responsibility for your actions if you're caught.

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underscore_at t1_jd4ta0e wrote

I wasn’t discussing his actions.

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drr71-2 t1_jd57d6w wrote

I know.... that's your problem. You want to ignore the felon's violent crimes and his victims to draw "empathy" for the violent felon. You want to zero out any thoughts or empathy for his victims and the rest of society who have to live in fear of being a victim of a felon with a gun stealing cars and trying to drag people to their death. Where's the empathy for people who want to live in a place where they don't have to fear being a victim to people like your buddy?

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underscore_at t1_jd5hl6u wrote

When did I not empathize with the victims? How does not wanting people (“violent felons”) murdered have anything to do with those being assaulted by them?

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drr71-2 t1_jd5lclh wrote

You failed to empathize with the victims by denying the victims of the violent felon the right to defend their own lives by using the same level of deadly force the violent felon chooses to use to commit his crimes and inflict fear and suffering on innocent people in an otherwise peaceful society.

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