Submitted by SnooMaps1313 t3_zzwq4d in vermont
Truly just curious where this comes from. It's common knowledge in this region, and many like it, that tire chains are not a functional solution used by any normal commuter with a normal vehicle. Yet we see almost daily posts on here asking if tire chains will work.
And it kind of makes sense out west given how you can drive from LA to Tahoe in a day. That’s a huge change in climate for folks who almost certainly wouldn’t have snow tires.
Yeah they are also good for dumps of deep snow on steep hills which is common out west.
So are the hills steeper over there or are they not salting/plowing as much as we do in the East?
They seem to get a lot more snow and they gain much more elevation. I think the issue might be the grade is sustained for longer.
Its hard to describe it but its like driving in fresh pow lol.
I live in Denver. I70 goes from ~5300ft in Denver to over 11,500 at the tunnel. It takes about 60 miles to do so. In a storm, they constantly plow if they can keep up with the snow. They close the highway if they can't. Very few people around here use chains. The smart drivers use snow tires. The Texans end up upside in their truck wondering what just happened...
Colorado definitely has traction laws. Passenger vehicles needs AWD and appropriate tires. Trucks need chains. There is likely no way a semi could get over that pass without them in a storm.
I am In Montana near a city about the size of Burlington. Salt just really isn’t a thing here. Supposedly there is a small amount in the sand they put out at intersections, but it’s a very small amount. Severe shortage of plow drivers. With the huge influx of people now that everyone’s moving here to live out their Yellowstone cowboy fantasies, the roads have been a shit show the last few years, interstate has been closed multiple times this winter for pileups. We don’t have rust though, so there’s that I guess.
Check out CHP Truckee on Instagram or Facebook. It's bananas.
The Sierras are no joke.
Ah yea, Donner Pass, named after the Donner party, whose travel plans went swimmingly.
Mammoth Lakes got like 14 feet of snow recently so yes the Sierra mountains get a lot of snow.
Generally the only folks that have snow tires in Cali are the hardcore skiers and snowboarders that go every chance they can when there is powder.
The rest of folks generally don’t have winter tires, but have chains for emergencies.
It’s more that you can go from 50°-60° weather where no one in their right mind would have winter tires on their vehicle to 20° and three feet of fresh powder in an hour or two drive. I did this myself visiting a friend in Sacramento and going skiing at Boreal. 90 mile drive and a mile and half elevation increase.
Yes to both. I drove a lot in Tahoe and the drops on the side of the road are very steep and there is no salt on the roads. The area just dumps a ton of snow at once too. Mix that with people who visit the mountain areas aren’t usually driving in snow.
What I saw in Tahoe is chains are required based on your set up. I had an all wheel drive with snow tires and used chains one winter when we got like 10 feet of snow during a weekend storm leaving the mountain skiing, but generally I just carried them in the trunk- and that was what was required with my set up. If you didn’t have all wheel drive or snow tires, you often would have to put on chains to get through the passes and they would make you do it at the checkpoints.
The Rockies are younger, so it makes sense they'd be steeper.
Just look up the Million Dollar Highway
Happens in the northeast too. Last year on Presidents weekend I left New Jersey and my car thermometer said it was 68 degrees outside. 7 hours later I was in blizzard conditions north of Montreal. Approximately nobody in NJ uses snow tires, between November and April there are more 70 degree days than snowy days.
Parts of MT mandate chains in winter but only on specific passes or roads
When I asked whether we would need chains of my Vermonter gf at the time, she laughed and asked me if I was from the ‘40s for suggesting them over snow tires.
To my Californian mind, it made more sense to have one set of tires and just put some attachment on them — till that very moment where I realized half the year was a long time for such a makeshift solution
"also it's an old time thing" yikes! I remember my dad using chains in the '90s am I officially old timey 😂
That was 30 years ago. :/
Chain enforcement in Washington, and BC, Canada have changed to Winter Tire enforcement, and only during a storm, and only if you are stopped.
The reality is you get a ticket if you cause a crash, block traffic, or need a tow because of summer tires.
In Europe (French and Swiss Alps) chains are still considered the default for snow traction. In most cases snow tires are considered an acceptable alternative, but IIRC there are still a few roads in the Alps where you legally have to have chains even if your car has snow tires.
They're also more popular with tourists who don't expect to drive on snow except for their annual ski vacation. Some people use "snow socks" on their tires instead.
I’m surprised by this too. I’ve never owned chains. Only see them used on tractors.
I think some towns prohibit use of chains because it tears up the road.
Confirmed, only place I use them is on my tractor even though yeah they're a little tough on my steep driveway. Be impossible without them though. Granted, also heavier than car chains.
So I don't really have any insights into how other people think, but I wonder if the appeal is the thought that they'd just be temporary for a bad storm or maybe for cars that are mainly on paved roads but might only need them to get up the back woods driveway if their rental house?
For my daily drive, studs are the clear answer
Because people are mentally going through every possible option, no matter how unlikely to work, to avoid spending a bunch of money on a set of snow tires.
And some people may be from areas where using tire chains for mountain passes is an acceptable option for winter driving.
I disagree that the majority of people who ask about chains are just trying to avoid other options. I think people who don't deal with snow just genuinely think chains are what you do because that's what they've heard about, and OP is curious where they got that information.
I grew up without snow and never had to think about different tires for different seasons until I went to college in New York. I've lived where it snows for so long at this point I don't remember what I "knew" before I knew, but I think it's just what people assume is done - winter tires haven't been around forever!
Agree 100%
Appalachians = snow tires
Rockies = chains
This is the answer. I’ve been to Colorado many times and lived in Tahoe for almost 6 years. Colorado = snow chains to get to many places. Tahoe = recommended snow chains to get to most places.
Here, please just get snow tires for fucks sake
[deleted]
I used to manage a fleet with trucks out that way, they would get tickets for not having chains in the truck regardless of season, it was not something I had ever considered.
I grew up in Sacramento. I remember when it would start snowing up I80 and 50 there would always be alerts that chains were required at a certain point. I just figured that it was the same anywhere it snowed. On that note, I sadly think they get more snow there than here in Vermont now.
They definitely get more snow up at Donner Pass than anywhere in Vermont. I-80 requires either three-peak snow tires AND AWD/4x4 OR chains on the driver wheels.
That wouldn’t make any sense here, but it fits that situation, which is probably the cause of confusion by flatlanders. Our road conditions are typically either 1) shitty or 2) a bit snowy. Out West, the roads are typically either 1) fine or 2) covered in fresh snow.
Pretty sure you don't need the three peak, M+S is enough.
Because in the Rockies people use chains. They throw them on when needed and take them off when not. Is that so crazy?
That’s not crazy at all. When I moved out here some years ago I drove through Colorado in late May not knowing that they could get tons of snow and ice that late in the season. Chains or snow tires were required going through the Vail pass, The road had been closed to all traffic the day before because it was that bad the next day the state put out PSA is about either having snow tires or chains. Obviously I don’t mess around now I have good snow tires. I just didn’t know any better back then.
Between Wilmington and Bennington there is a designated “chain up” area, only one I’ve seen in VT.
Tire chains are great in rural areas just for things such as driveways and short distance. Best thing for winter commute on cars is studded tires. Everyone be safe this new year eve. Peace ✌️
Exactly bud. I use chains every winter to go up my two mile uphill both ways ice luge of a road . Don’t love putting them on - but not going for an out of control slide down the mountain and inevitably crashing into a tree makes it worth it.
Probably because their only experience with snow is driving through a few hours of it. When I lived in CA we would sometimes go to big Bear Mountain and snow chains are a hell of a lot cheaper than a set of winter tires when you’re only going there once every five or six years. Visitors don’t understand that snow tires are a good idea bordering on a necessity for about five months a year and that snow chains are supposed to be left on for hours not days. It’s the same reason why tourists come here in winter in freeze because they have no idea how to dress for winter.
Tire chains are great in areas where they occasionally get deep snow (or you have to occasionally pass through areas with deep snow) but most of the winter the roads are fine and so winter tires would just get eaten up by driving on bare, warm pavement. Here, our roads are potentially shitty all the time from October/November through April. Even the last storm we got a week ago (got 8" of snow after all the rain in my area) took about 5-6 days for the roads to be completely clear again. As in, even with great snow tires I was driving in 4WD 90% of the time.
That said, I've had a few nights unexpectedly driving in freezing rain when I wished I had chains. It's something I keep meaning to buy for those rare "just in case" times. We're getting more freezing rain most years than we ever did 20-30 years ago, and that's when snow tires don't do much but chains would definitely help.
In order to cross mountains in places like the Sierras, Cascades, and Rockies, chains are required.
Born and raised in Vermont and used to call outsiders “flatlanders” just like the rest of you but when I moved away I realized we are flatlanders compared to people who live in the west.
Because out West there are regular 4x4/chains restrictions where there's more mountainous terrain.
Who's driving with tire chains? It's 60°. We had like...a day of snow
Higher elevations still have snow . Now it’s melting and then it’s going to freeze and get icy . Then I’m going to put chains on to be successful.
There are a few places in VT that require chains on trucks, like Searsburg East of Bennington. They even have dedicated chain-up lots at the bottom of the hill.
Years ago, my school bus had chains ⛓️, I don't know if they still use them.
Other than that, I never see them.
Some heavy vehicles (trucks and school buses) now have automatic tire chains that can deploy under the wheels when needed.
Seems you haven’t been out west. Chains are mandatory for many passes and part of winter life. Usually snow tires + 4x4 will suffice. Semi truckers have it the worst though
I've been in many positions with my truck where I needed chains to get out.
Yea, not sure what people in this thread do in the winter, and while I don't chain up to go out I have needed them to get their or back from time to time. Snow tires for commuting, chains for recreating/emergencies.
They are mandatory in other states - California is one - when the weather gets bad. Might be some confusion from that.
Good question.
Chains are needed in only the most severe conditions. I have used them once in Vermont. It was more than needed. Good tires will help more In snow.
Get good tires and drive for the conditions is better advice.
I have used chains more on ice with freezing rain on top of that. All in other places. And then, only for the worst hill, or curve. Drive for the conditions.
Because chains are a far cheaper option than getting Winter Tires, by a long shot (not to mention changing them out again in the Spring). That would be my guess. Hell, I'm from Massachusetts before I moved up here, and we didn't ever use winter tires or chains. For a lot of folks, it's a foreign concept.
must be west coast snow-nerds (this is always advised by public safety authorities when people travel to the mountains on the west coast. it's not supposed to be a long term thing, you basically pull over before a road block, and they check for chains).
could you even imagine leaving your chains on all winter like studs! XD
I’ve experienced the opposite and hear people thinking summer tires or shitty all seasons are fine up here during winter. Drives me crazy
I don’t even have studded tires!
A good set of studded snow tires and four wheel drive will get you anywhere in VT, just don’t try to drive faster than conditions permit.
I drive 1,000 miles a week for my compost pickup business, and while I don't pull them out often, I use my tire chains a handful of times every winter. Helps a lot in certain situations. And a good set was only $200. But I agree, dumb for most people. Shouldn't drive them on pavement, and if loose can rip your brake line.
They are mandatory in places that don't get a lot of snow, like CA (until you get to the Sierras). It's because all of those cars don't have snow tires. They'll wave you through a chain check with snows, or an AWD. If you live in NE, or NY, you do the annual thanksgiving tire change to snows. That's why our cars work, and cars from places that need chains don't.
Tire chains in New England?
Because in places with snow/no snow out west, they make you put on chains to go up the mountains. So, its really for part time use when the majority of time you won't be driving in snow. So you can take them off after.
Because they think it's 1954?
This comes from people unwilling to buy actual snow tires with studs to accommodate ice here in the northeast as our west where ice is less likely to get over mountains tire chains are often required on a 4x4 to make the pass.
Out-of-towner here! I haven’t even SEEN snow since I lived up north 25 years ago, and definitely never had to drive in it. My only “experience” with what I should do is what I see in movies and what I hear from older folk down south who say “drivin’ in snow ain’t nothin’! All you need is to throw on some chains and you’re good to go!”
That being said, if I ever actually find a house in a place that has winters, actual research is the first thing I would do… but I suppose some folk just stick to whatever they have heard?
Because they think chains must be a replacement for experience and knowledge? that must be why locals don't have that many accidents?
Chains are the cats ass. Go anywhere.
Hey there - just saying -- if anyone wants to make a cool "YES YOU NEED SNOW TIRES" graphic, I'll make it the header image over at r/newtovermont.
(Also, I'll probably crosspost/sticky this thread when I get a chance.)
Here where I live in Spain, chains are often required when driving through certain mountainous areas in bad conditions.
Why are they not consistent a good option? Conversely, is there some reason why I never hear anything about snow tires here? I guess it's because snowy conditions would be a very occasional and short term situation for most drivers here (excepting those who live in the mountains, which is a very small proportion of those who drove through the mountains). Would snow tires be a viable replacement for chains or do they serve different purposes? Can you leave snow tires on all year round?
I’ve only seen them on cars when visiting Colorado. I think I’ve seen a logging trailer with them here on a class 4 road.
I probably won't even bother mounting snow tires. I just have a feeling that it's going to be a mild winter.
You say that but I’ve already seen plenty of Subarus in the ditch along the same stretches of road that my rwd car navigate to just fine with snow tires.
Not if I drive cautiously.
Probably, the upside to having winter tires is they help you deal with other shitty drivers. I’m a cautious and attentive driver but most people are not and having snow tires has made the difference on more than a few occasions between a near mess and a crash. Like when idiots turn out in front of you or decide to throw on the brakes instead of indicate.
[deleted]
It’s because anyone who is from the South grew up with every boomer-and-older-person inexplicably bringing up needing snow chains any time a place with snow was mentioned and overall treating the idea of snow as a completely unnavigable and extremely dangerous situation.
Everyone 60 and over in the south just loves to talk about chains. If you are traveling anywhere by car where it might snow, they ask if you have chains and make a this HUGE deal about it. And as is typical, they don’t believe you when you tell them they aren’t necessary.
They’re dumb
Twombls t1_j2e08ua wrote
Because out west they have chain enforcement stations.
Also its and old timey thing.
Edit: I do have to add though route 9 does do chain enforcement for semis.