Metal64Game t1_j9yq9qo wrote on February 25, 2023 at 3:32 PM

Reply to comment by edicivo in Game of Thrones Season 4 has to be in the GOAT discussion. by Boss452

People up here still justifying D&D's rampant cuts to the story and over-simplification of characters and themes despite this obviously ruining the show in spectacular fashion.

edicivo t1_j9yr9nh wrote on February 25, 2023 at 3:39 PM

So either you only read my first two sentences and completely overlooked the multiple times I criticized D&D or you're talking about other people in this thread. Your reply is very vague.

So here, D&D divebombed the show spectacularly, but losing Stoneheart was one of their rare right choices.

Metal64Game t1_j9yrw7u wrote on February 25, 2023 at 3:43 PM

Arya fast travelling inside the Frey's castle and killing them all off screen in 30 seconds was easily one of the worst moments of the show.

Revenge in GOT became a cheap quick thrill for the crowd.

Arya became a fake character rather than a real person, an omniscient assassin who could kill the bad guys cleanly without any fallout because that's what the audience loves.

And we lost the best twist of the books after the Red Wedding, which is the reveal of Stoneheart, an insane moment justified by its own merit.

For all your problems with Stoneheart, a million more sprung up in her place because of her omission.

edicivo t1_j9yv567 wrote on February 25, 2023 at 4:06 PM

I agree that Arya becoming a superhuman, and her "growth" as a character in general, were awful.

That said, all of the issues you brought up could have been fixed with better writing of her character.

Adding Stoneheart in in place of Arya just for your reasons would have been a complete waste of time. You're clearly very attached to the books so you should obviously be aware that as of this point, Stoneheart has had literally no effect on anything of importance in the story. I'll be generous and say she's in or referenced in maybe...15 pages of the books at this point? For all we know Brienne will get out of her noose and chop off Stoneheart's head right there. We have - and probably will continue to have - no idea.

Metal64Game t1_j9yw7tg wrote on February 25, 2023 at 4:13 PM

If I had to guess what Stoneheart's "ultimate" purpose is (since it seems like audiences everywhere are just obsessed with that stuff)...

Remember that story Catelyn told about how she hated Jon Snow and desperately wanted him dead?

Jon Snow would've likely reunited with Stoneheart at some point, and we'd seen a conclusion their specific dynamic. Either Jon would have to end Stoneheart's revenge spree out of pity, or Stoneheart would remember her promise to the gods, and finally put aside her hatred of Jon Snow and let him live, against all odds.

But I don't know, I'm not payed millions by HBO to deliver a fucking story rather than cut it to shreds.

Jazz_Potatoes95 t1_j9z1dyc wrote on February 25, 2023 at 4:48 PM

Given that George RR Martin was also getting paid by HBO to deliver a story, and he spectacularly failed in doing so, I'm actually willing to give D&D a bit of slack here.

They were adapting books they loved based on the promise from the author that he'd have the whole thing wrapped up by the time they caught up with him, and instead they started having to write their own material because the author himself found it impossible to untangle all the different threads.

Did they do a great job? No.

Should they really have been put in that position? Also no.

Metal64Game t1_j9z23z5 wrote on February 25, 2023 at 4:53 PM

GRRM: "I was pretty much out of the loop After GOT Season 4"

"you get the famous creative differences thing – that leads to a lot of conflict."

I'm not willing to give D&D "dany kind of forgot lol, sansa is the smartest character lol, also we killed off barristan selmy because the actor got sad about it" any slack.

They should've given showrunning over to someone willing to carry things the rest of the way with passion and care. It's obvious they just didn't care anymore, they just wanted to film a bunch of cool battle scenes for a giant paycheck and then move onto something else.

HOTD's success paired with keeping GRRM involved only confirms to me that D&D were the main factor in GOT falling apart post S4. They thought they could do better than GRRM, they failed spectacularly, end of story.