Comments
ayleidanthropologist t1_ixkzsk3 wrote
That’s so crazy to me, stairway coming up in front of that things grill. Thing’s humongous.
minicoop78 t1_ixkzxfh wrote
These are so incredibly massive when you see them in person.
WhileHereWhyNot t1_ixl0s65 wrote
After AI now Batteries are coming for our jobs?
Bad joke. Will see myself out. Thanks
-_1_2_3_- t1_ixl1rzz wrote
Pretty smart
wotmate t1_ixl51bp wrote
They've got a LOT of work to do to make these viable for use outside a demonstration track, as they have so many problems to overcome it's just not funny.
Firstly, regenerative braking won't be able to recover enough energy. As they're used mainly in open cut mines, they go down into the hole empty (so not doing much work) and then drive up out of the hole completely full (using literally all the power they've got).
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Secondly, most mines operate 24/7. Apart from scheduled maintenance, there is no downtime. Currently, dump trucks get refilled while they're in a queue waiting for the digger, so until they can work out how to fully recharge in that time, nobody is going to want them.
wotmate t1_ixl563o wrote
Other way round. They drive down into a hole empty, get loaded with material, and then use all their power driving back out of the hole. Regenerative braking doesn't have a hope of recovering the energy used to drive 100 tonnes of rocks out of a hole.
dannoGB68 t1_ixl8cep wrote
Totally agree on downtime for recharging. Same issue for over the road semi tractors. Seems like both could be solved with cartridge-style batteries that could be swapped. The truck keeps going while the spare battery is on the charger. Similar to what is done in 24x7 warehouses with electric forklifts. Sure, it’s a different scale, but the same process.
Beowoulf355 t1_ixlaes6 wrote
A viable solution until tech improvement in recharging and batteries. If they also have less down time due to fewer moving parts, it could be a bonus.
adventure_in_gnarnia t1_ixlbthx wrote
Semi truck drivers need to sleep and are limited to 11 hours driving in a 14-hour work day after 10 consecutive hours off duty… so these are nowhere close to the same scenario
Draskules t1_ixlc689 wrote
An issue I can see with the cartridge style is the weight. To power that massive machine you'd need some huge, heavy batteries. You would need a crane or somthing just to swap them out
NameOfUserOfReddit t1_ixlc9z1 wrote
After one hour, a parent of the driver runs out and replaces 1,000 D size batteries before the kid starts crying.
MainerZ t1_ixldmtz wrote
Up a mountain? Are these not primarily used to pull rock out of large holes? They'll be hauling loads out and driving down empty, that doesn't sound like it'll generate a whole lot.
dannoGB68 t1_ixlet72 wrote
I’ve worked for a very large trucking company for 25 years. I’m very aware. Current range is about 200 miles. That’s about 4 hrs for an OTR driver. What do you do for the rest of his 11 hour shift? Sit him while the truck recharges or swap batteries and go?
adventure_in_gnarnia t1_ixlfcp2 wrote
Range will continue to increase. But yea there’s still a lot of infrastructure and logistics to work out.
Just pointing out its drastically different duty cycles compared to a 3-shift manufacturing environment
franzn t1_ixlgb1h wrote
There are mines where the deposit is above the plant. Obviously this isn't the best solution for all cases but where it does work it should be great.
dannoGB68 t1_ixlgntp wrote
I think that this is interesting. Probably not practical for long distances, but it could help reduce heavy battery draw while climbing steep grades.
wotmate t1_ixlgru2 wrote
Those tend to use articulated dumpers, not the heavy haulers though. The heavy dump trucks can only go up a certain grade, which is why they're used in open cut mines, because they can make the haul roads whatever grade they want.
franzn t1_ixlhl37 wrote
I worked at a company with 100 ton haul trucks in the Denver front range. Articulated haul trucks are great for rough terrain but the rigid frames can definitely climb. You have to manage grades with either truck though whether going up or down, just has to be addressed with good mine planning.
IvorTheEngine t1_ixlj49m wrote
Even a forklift battery is far too heavy to lift by hand. The battery handling is part of the system. I'd imagine the truck would be able to lift and lower its own battery, and they'd use a long lead to power the truck between batteries.
IvorTheEngine t1_ixljllp wrote
Yes, not needing to roll out charging infrastructure across the world (or agree one standard) make this much easier than cars.
IvorTheEngine t1_ixlkl7p wrote
Battery swaps would be much easier for mine trucks than long distance truckers, because all the batteries would be owned by the same company and the mine truck is never far from the charger.
A long-distance truck in Europe would probably be in a different country every time it needs a battery swap, so not only would the battery format have to be standard across all brands, but the billing system would have to handle multiple companies supplying batteries and charging infrastructure. Unless someone like Tesla could roll out a world-wide monopoly.
frontiermanprotozoa t1_ixll9qf wrote
Dont they also spend most of their time waiting loading and unloading? Running a high gauge wire to loading and unloading bays sounds easier to do than refilling individual trucks.
frontiermanprotozoa t1_ixlldl5 wrote
> dump trucks get refilled while they're in a queue waiting for the digger, so until they can work out how to fully recharge in that time, nobody is going to want them.
Tbf running a high gauge wire to loading and unloading bays sounds easier than managing refilling of individual trucks with flammable liquid
wotmate t1_ixlpyit wrote
Where they get loaded is a big hole in the ground that is constantly changing, with parts of it periodically blown up. They don't do it in bays...
Sp3llbind3r t1_ixlqo0g wrote
It‘s not like they had a lot of work for doing a prototype. If i remember correctly, the drivetrain was hybrid anyways. So it was a diesel or gas turbine powering electric motors in the hubs or something close to that.
wotmate t1_ixlqxzy wrote
You should watch this so you know what you're talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16PVBaRpWts
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Not a loading bay in sight.
BukkakedFrankenstein t1_ixluiyz wrote
I’m sure those tires are made 100% out of batteries and no fossil fuels were used to bend, form or machine any of the components of the truck either…
BukkakedFrankenstein t1_ixlv8pc wrote
Regenerative breaking also isn’t 100% efficient… No machine is 100% efficient. Realistically if these were nuclear powered they’d be more environmentally friendly… That would be a hard sell to a coal pit mine though…
g1aiz t1_ixlvy90 wrote
The holes can be up mountains too.
Dangerous_Shirt9593 t1_ixlwidx wrote
If you can go to Conexpo in Vegas. In Europe you just missed Bauma. So fun
g1aiz t1_ixlwrek wrote
Designwerk just showed a 40t one with 360miles range fully loaded. We are getting there.
Tarcye t1_ixlyh0a wrote
The Problem isn't range it's weight. For EV semi trucks to be viable they have to weigh around as much as ICE ones.
PlayfulParamedic2626 t1_ixm0iq9 wrote
In Electric Truck Hydropower technology, an empty truck moves up the mountain to collect containers filled with water at the charge site, while a truck with a full container goes down the mountain, generating electricity. The water then is unloaded at the discharge site.
whosthetroll t1_ixm1zqd wrote
That's nothing special. All of my earth mover equipment was battery powered growing up.
chandleya t1_ixm315p wrote
Regenerative braking is extremely overrated lol. I’ve owned 2 prii, another hybrid SUV, and a Model Y-P. Regen is just a pinch of the power consumption. Low single-digit percents. It’s cool not to waste, but it’s irrational to think it adds some tremendous amount. It doesn’t.
chandleya t1_ixm3af0 wrote
It would be fascinating to hear what “fast charging” looks like on these fat boys. With Tesla already operating tons of 250kW charging infra, are we ready for 1.5MW for the tractors? That’s just … well it’s a lot haha.
swords-and-boreds t1_ixm4gl8 wrote
Tesla are making a 300 mile one and a 500 mile one. First deliveries to Frito Lay are in December. They’re also setting up a Megacharger network. Drive 4-8 hours, park for an hour, then a second leg. It’s becoming viable.
Edit: for accuracy, it looks like Tesla are not doing an entire megacharger network but rather installing them at client locations. In light of that, these trucks may remain more for regional hauling than cross-country. But if someone were to put chargers at truck stops, they’d work for both.
SuperToxin t1_ixm683a wrote
that's a very smart design.
garlicroastedpotato t1_ixm6aq5 wrote
Yep. Last time I worked around this equipment I was in a giant excavator loading trucks The trucks I was loading were pretty damn big. Like you stand next to their tires and the tire is still double your height. And then one day another company loaned us their bigger trucks for the day. Here you could see our trucks by their trucks. It was like having a three story single family home next to a condo building.
Green_Personality_95 t1_ixm7zf4 wrote
Komatsu developed these about 5 years ago. Don't think they caught on
HackSlashBurn t1_ixm8fd4 wrote
$100t and 400 years’ worth of mining is all it’s going to take to be oil free!
PROLAPSED_SUBWOOFER t1_ixmbbcj wrote
A machine to swap the batteries is not a big deal, even the smaller size forklift batteries are >2000lbs. Many forklifts actually use the battery as a counterweight . The issue is standardizing battery formats like electric forklifts have already done. A 10000lb truck battery wouldn't be much different, just would need a a bigger forklift to move the bigger battery.
FIRSTFREED0CELL t1_ixmc0ia wrote
I don't know anything about mining, but I wonder if some sort of pantograph and overhead wires along the more permanent sections of road could work. I would think the active mining end of the route might be too dynamic to be electrified, or at least would require some easily movable tower system. There have been locomotives that run on partially electrified routes for quite some time - they are able to raise a pantograph and switch to electric from diesel while moving.
Would it be worth the effort?
48mcgillracefan t1_ixmfxil wrote
8 to 10% grade and plenty of mines use 240 to 320 ton trucks in these mines.
Geeber_The_Drooler t1_ixmit3d wrote
Which is pretty funny considering they're used to haul coal out of strip mining operations.
ahfoo t1_ixml35v wrote
I have zero experience or inside knowledge on this but I would guess that you've answered your own question basically which is that the whole thing is too dynamic for a solution like that to work. Pantograph wires are fine for light rail mass transit where the route never changes but an open pit mine is almost certainly changing constantly. Think of it as a landfill in reverse. This idea clearly would not work in a landfill. A mine is the opposite case.
Aleashed t1_ixmmq53 wrote
This can flatten real people like cartoons
dannoGB68 t1_ixmnkc4 wrote
In the states, Class 8 semi tractors are dominated by 4 big manufacturers with Freightliner having the dominant market share.
I know it may seem like a strange analogy, but think about energy for your BBQ grill. When I need more, I take my tank to a convenience store and swap it for a full tank. I don’t care who had that tank before, just that it has a full charge. The BBQ grill industry with many manufacturers (or an agency) determined a standard fitting so that they are fully interchangeable.
You could do similar w batteries. For instance, Freightliner could partner w Pilot Truck Stops and set up battery swaps. They would ensure that the batteries meet specs and condition requirements and you’d pay for the charge.
One of our convenience store chains in the Midwest sells gas, diesel, cng, LNG, electricity, etc. Their stated mission is that they sell energy. Truck stops could do the same.
AdvertisingFree4150 t1_ixmrp4d wrote
another company already has them going with regen braking. they need if for excavators not trucks
[deleted] t1_ixmw3r1 wrote
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[deleted] t1_ixmxgyn wrote
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cat_prophecy t1_ixn5fj6 wrote
Regenerative braking in a Prius is different from what you find on a battery electric car. They run the motor in reverse as a generator and the electric motors in a battery vehicle are much larger and more efficient than what’s available even in a PHEV.
BEVs can brake without touching the brake pedal. A Prius doesn’t have a large enough electric motor to do that.
cat_prophecy t1_ixn8gth wrote
Forklift batteries are also lead-acid and heavy on purpose as they’re used for the counterweight.
The minimum energy density of a LiOn battery is 28% higher than lead acid and that would be using old obsolete packs. For modern packs it’s about 200-300 times higher.
cat_prophecy t1_ixn9gfv wrote
The weight reduction just from not having engine oil and fuel is significant.
A Komatsu 960E carries about 5 tons of fuel (1400 gallons) and nearly half a ton of oil and lubricants.
SweetDank t1_ixn9v8h wrote
The Cat museum in Peoria has a movie on the tour and at the end they tell you that the ~100 seat theater you’re sitting in is actually made from the bed of their mining truck.
cat_prophecy t1_ixna0pc wrote
It’s less about that and more about cost savings. Fuel costs on average for an ultra class truck are about $175/he using wholesale fuel prices. These trucks run like 18 hours a day.
BukkakedFrankenstein t1_ixnb4ml wrote
I doubt they’re batteries last 18 hours…
Franklin_le_Tanklin t1_ixnb9mi wrote
> Those tend to use articulated dumpers,
I see you’ve met my wife
talontario t1_ixnbc8s wrote
It's still not that efficient. About 25% last I checked
chandleya t1_ixnccw2 wrote
I mean I literally have a Tesla and it’s pretty insignificant. Not nothing, but also not much more than reclaiming some free losses.
nyaaaa t1_ixnp1f0 wrote
> never plug in
> recover some energy
Whut?
nyaaaa t1_ixnp8br wrote
They only need to be charged enough for one trip.
shiftty t1_ixnwru2 wrote
This is already in widespread use. The trucks run on diesel>electric part of the time, but the main slope has exactly what you described
mainelinerzzzzz t1_ixnxwit wrote
Spoiler alert!
skunksmasher t1_ixnyjbl wrote
Tractor?
Dump Truck?
is this another bot made reddit post?
SparkleTarkle t1_ixo3lf5 wrote
The steel mill I work at has some of these to move scrap around. They dump the scrap into a bucket that’s big enough for a few these to fall into!
These things are monsters.
CuppaTeaThreesome t1_ixo9d1a wrote
That's an interesting thing to factor in.
CuppaTeaThreesome t1_ixo9qql wrote
diesel to hydrogen engine conversion covers the aspect of having no electricity infrastructure close. Also negates charging downtime. JCB make lots already.
IkLms t1_ixocqf5 wrote
These trucks tend to run basically 24/7 though. It's not like they run them for 8 hours and close down for the night.
It's a cool idea but it seems like it's not really going to work. The reason they have trucks so massive is to increase throughput, without buying more trucks.
I'm not sure they'd want to buy extra trucks to sit idle.
I feel like figuring out some sort of easy way to run them off of electrified tracks would make more sense.
AS14K t1_ixoivwi wrote
How much do the batteries in this one weigh, and does it run for the same length of time? 5tons isn't that much compared to the total weight it hauls
_MoveSwiftly t1_ixowf6s wrote
You haven't lived near mountains then. I live in CO and it's extremly effective for the 2nd Gen, I just wish I had a bigger battery.
lasdue t1_ixpjuf0 wrote
Is that satire or something, why would you do that instead of a pump and some pipelines?
eras t1_ixppamk wrote
How often do you drive long stretches down the hill? In this video guy driving downhill seems to be getting around 250 Wh/km, which seems rather significant.
I'm sure you can fare even better if you purpose-build a machine for just going downhill and charging and then going uphill: you basically have an electric plant on wheels.
PlayfulParamedic2626 t1_ixpy9eb wrote
Because a pipeline isn’t cost effective to build and maintain. There’s already a road on the route. . .
The truck is fast easy cheap. A pipeline takes years and lots of money to build, install, and maintain.
A truck can carry rock. Be used anywhere anytime. A truck can move materials down several different mountains per day.
lasdue t1_ixq0j5x wrote
Sorry man but moving water up a hill with a vehicle sounds stupid inefficient compared to a pipeline for electricity generation purposes.
On top of the weight of the water there’s also the additional weight of the vehicles that takes extra energy to move.
PlayfulParamedic2626 t1_ixq1fzc wrote
The water starts at the top of the hill…. The energy is captured through regenerative braking on the trip down the hill….
lasdue t1_ixq20ke wrote
There are still losses from transferring the energy from regen to the battery and then taking it out from it again. It’s inefficient and pointless.
PlayfulParamedic2626 t1_ixqdki7 wrote
I’m sure you know more than all the engineers at catapillar
lasdue t1_ixqh5nx wrote
Caterpillar has absolutely nothing to do with the article/study you linked
PlayfulParamedic2626 t1_ixql969 wrote
Here let me google that for ya.
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/08/26/edumper-electric-mining-truck-self-charging/
lasdue t1_ixqqx7p wrote
You’re trying to pass two different things as they’d be from the same people. The truck is not tied to the whatever water thing you linked earlier.
FiredForIncompetence t1_ixugder wrote
Depending on where they’re used, they might not need to be charged at all. Like if they load cargo up on a mountain and then drive down. They can charge through regenerative braking. On the way up they’re empty an use less energy.
Human drivers need breaks and these might be enough to charge the trucks.
> easy way to run them off of electrified tracks
Building a train is also an alternative commonly used in mining.
PlayfulParamedic2626 t1_ixkyskq wrote
These drive up a mountain, get loaded with material, drive slowly down a mountain, and generate electricity the whole way down using regenerative braking.