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DonQuixBalls t1_je33owe wrote

Reply to comment by 547610831 in $52 Billion Chipmaking Plan Is Racing Toward Failure by savuporo

> the US can't manufacture these chips as cheaply as Asia

Chip fabrication isn't heavily dependent on labor costs. Can they really not be made about as cheaply, or have we just chosen not to do it because the odd penny here and there has been considered a sufficient savings?

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547610831 t1_je34a5q wrote

It's not just labor costs. There's also a lot of regulations in the US which increase costs.

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DonQuixBalls t1_je35j0d wrote

Regulation definitely adds to the bottom line, both in real dollars and the cost of added time. Sounds like a streamlined approval process is what's desperately needed. Same is true for mining permits.

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savuporo OP t1_je3f0lc wrote

> Sounds like a streamlined approval process is what's desperately needed

That's ... precisely what the article advocates for. And also for streamlined immigration of absolutely required skilled talent, because US education system isn't producing nearly enough

"Streamlined approvals" ( aka less regulation ) is also desperately needed for things like building out infrastructure

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SilverZero-03 t1_je87m3c wrote

You're somewhat right about labor costs. However there is an absurd amount of specialized labor needed to make the fabs run at the cutting edge. Look at how Intel tried and failed falling behind TSMC.

The other issue from a corporate perspective is the fabs are silly expensive. I'm pretty sure they are the most expensive buildings in the world once you account for all the equipment you need . Once you construct one, you need it to run 24/7 pumping out chips to even pretend to make the expenditure worth it. Hasn't the USA had some large profile power failures in the not to distant past? You'd be screaming at the moon as a fab if you suffered a shutdown caused by inadequate infrastructure outside your plant.

China is also trying to get at the high end of chips, and they earmarked over $140 billion USD, and remember that with purchasing power parity that money goes a lot further in China vs USA. All this is to say it is very expensive and technically difficult to be at the high end of fabs. I have a feeling both countries will end up with some higher end fabs, but give it time and they'll fail at keeping up the pace.

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DonQuixBalls t1_je8bzmi wrote

> fabs are silly expensive.

This is NO exaggeration. You can build a lot of things in a garage, or a million dollar factory. Chips can't be built in a BILLION dollar factory.

> Hasn't the USA had some large profile power failures in the not to distant past? You'd be screaming at the moon as a fab if you suffered a shutdown caused by inadequate infrastructure outside your plant.

No country has 100% uptime. Like hospitals, you have batteries and generators onsite capable of picking up the load without interruption.

> China is also trying to get at the high end of chips, and they earmarked over $140 billion USD,

If they've done this, this will almost surely be enough to get them to the forefront.

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