acosmichippo t1_j9kck5f wrote
Reply to comment by [deleted] in Apple is convinced my dog is stalking me. A vital AirTag safety feature is incorrectly notifying me every day. by MayoFetish
>Plus the article says it's registered to the author's partner so please lend me an arm, I gotta facepalm.
that's the root of the issue here. There should be a way to share AirTags with family.
Youvebeeneloned t1_j9klutn wrote
The problem becomes people using it to stalk as mentioned.
phoenix1984 t1_j9ko9p7 wrote
Right, an air tag that’s shared with family increases transparency. The AirTag can still function as it’s meant to, but wouldn’t alert when my wife takes our dog to the park without me. It would be useless for stalking my wife because she would be able to see the AirTag and its location in her account too. As for handling breakups, Apple has a great privacy checkup tool that lets you completely separate your shared data with someone instantly.
The solution here is shared AirTags. No added risk, fewer false positives which in turn make people safer because they’re more likely to trust the alerts they get.
maru11 t1_j9lk13q wrote
You would still have to check the app ever now and then to see if your partner is stalking you, because it would not pro-actively trigger an alert right it does right now. I understand Apple, that this not as easy of a choice as it seams. Also probably hard to get if you’re not thinking in these scenarios or if you’re not affected by domestic abuse.
phoenix1984 t1_j9lkr4q wrote
That’s not really helped or hurt with shared tags. If my wife already shares her location with me, there is no added risk to her if our dog’s location is also shared.
maru11 t1_j9lm2b8 wrote
As I said, this is not as easy. A family account doesn’t force you to share your device location - you can just have it off and still be in the family account.
How does adding an AirTag work? Does it send a motivation to every family member that it was added? Does your wife say it’s for the dog, you agree to adding it, and suddenly it’s in your car stalking where you are driving while the dog is at home and there is no notification at all it’s with you?
phoenix1984 t1_j9lor7p wrote
It wouldn’t automatically be shared with her. It’s all opt in. I would send an invite and she could accept it. Either of us could leave at any time. Once or twice a year my phone gives me a privacy review notification where it walks me through the data I’m sharing with apps and others, allowing me to change it.
If my wife decides to put the dog AirTag in my car, she could, but I could also check that any time I wanted. If I didn’t want her to see my location, I would check which devices are sharing location and where they are. Since it’s opt in and Apple has those periodic privacy reviews, I think the level of risk is low.
The current approach of spamming AirTag notifications when someone who lives with other iPhone users uses them creates a pattern where we learn to ignore them, which is a far bigger risk.
The only real alternative is to not have the technology exist at all. That’s not going to happen. I’d rather it be done by a responsible company like apple than someone who doesn’t take these precautions.
moofie74 t1_j9n9y3n wrote
Yup. And if I am an evil partner, I can get my target partner’s phone and accept the invitation.
I’d love shared AirTags because I’m not evil. I also totally understand why it is the way it is.
GummyKibble t1_j9pbppl wrote
Just like Find My Friends, which already exists.
Curious_Charge9431 t1_j9ndk4h wrote
> Either of us could leave at any time.
But not cleanly. The problem with this is in the domestic violence or stalking situation is that it becomes known to the other person that the AirTag has stopped sharing. (It doesn't matter if it happens through notification or the AirTag disappears from the other person's screen.)
Until the person stops sharing their AirTag the location is shared with the other person and so is something of a route to some point where the AirTag sharing is then turned off.
One way around this is to allow a scramble AirTag location, whereby the person can press a button and the AirTag location is reported as somewhere random and different.
>The only real alternative is to not have the technology exist at all. That’s not going to happen.
I just watched a company attempt to create a fictional $1 million contractural fine for misuse of their product. They may not be able to make this one work out.
engwish t1_j9nwd91 wrote
I understand both arguments, but if you have already enabled family location sharing which shares every device with your family members then I don’t see why AirTags couldn’t be added as well. If privacy is a major concern for DA, Apple should consider regularly reminding folks that they’re sharing their location with their family and give finer controls over what can be shared/not shared.
acosmichippo t1_j9kojz8 wrote
of course it would require opt-in from your family and opt out available at any time. then the AirTag should default to functioning like an unshared AirTag. that doesn't seem like it would be too hard for apple to do.
earthwormjim91 t1_j9lein7 wrote
Which wouldn't be an issue with family sharing already. I mean, my wife and I have family sharing set up with our locations in Find My. We can always see where each others' devices are.
tylerderped t1_j9ktonb wrote
Not allowing it to be shared doesn’t fix that tho. You can still stalk someone, it’ll just continuously notify them.
au-smurf t1_j9ocjxc wrote
You can tell it not to alert you. Your phone even makes the offer when it tells you a tag is following you. I learnt this the second day my wife and I got some and I borrowed her keys. Since we share location with each other in family sharing I can see all her tags in find my
AndiCui t1_j9m7nw2 wrote
> There should be a way to share AirTags with family.
Yes, but there is more to it than just turning off alarm for all family AirTags. The way of sharing must take into account that stalking can also come from abusive people in the relationship.
Should every AirTag gets pre-approved from each member of the family? Can the owner just abuse that AirTag even it was told to the family that it was for their keys, for example?
acosmichippo t1_j9m85z6 wrote
It doesn't seem that complicated to me. no pre-approvals, each AirTag share should require opt-in for each family member, and allow opt-out any time. I don't see how that could be abused.
AndiCui t1_j9m9854 wrote
Hypothetical: Bob ask Alice if he can share the AirTag for his keychain. Alice agrees and approves. Bob drops that AirTag into Alice’s bag one day.
The problem is that the AirTag is not bolted on the item that are legitimately to be tracked.
Some scheme that will occasionally inform users on an interval without the phone giving red alarm every time might be necessary. It’s not as simple as approve and disapprove.
Curious_Charge9431 t1_j9nhkz3 wrote
> and allow opt-out any time
The problem with this is in the domestic violence or stalking situation is that it becomes known to the other person that the AirTag has stopped sharing. (It doesn't matter if it happens through notification or the AirTag disappears from the other person's screen.)
Until the person stops sharing their AirTag the location is shared with the other person and so leads to some point where the AirTag sharing is then turned off.
One way around this is to allow a scramble AirTag location, whereby the person can press a button and the AirTag location is reported as somewhere random and different.
OverthinkingMadMan t1_j9o2ruj wrote
Your solution is the same as just removing the air tag and placing it somewhere. That is already an option. So?
For this to be a problem, you first would have to accept a family invite for a tag, then that tag has to be put on you somewhere, without you knowing it and you would have to be unable to see the location yourself.
If that is the intent, then there are better ways to do that without the other person noticing. Just get a dog tracker that used 4G. That doesn't give notifications, doesn't require the partner to accept anything and the partner would be uanble to see the location.
Curious_Charge9431 t1_j9o7176 wrote
The surreptitious tag stalking was less on my mind, more the family with the domestic violence problem. Dropping the tag and leaving it somewhere is a cleaner solution. I'm tempted to think there is some reason why Apple is so hesitant to allow easy tag sharing.
OverthinkingMadMan t1_j9o79j1 wrote
In a family with domestic violence, there are still far easier methods to do this than with these tags. And as I said, the solution with a tag is to just leave it somewhere. If you want to monitor someone without them knowing it, then you can just use systems that work far better towards that application.
Curious_Charge9431 t1_j9o8m3b wrote
I was thinking more of a domestic violence situation that arose after people had agreed to share their tag tracking info. Not the surreptitious tag stalking (monitoring someone without them knowing) situation.
deelowe t1_j9ou1qm wrote
LOL. It's about MONEY. Apple doesn't give a shit about all this.
They don't want to allow air tag sharing because they want people to buy one for each family member instead of just sharing them.
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