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Patient-Avocado1329 t1_j96cmy4 wrote

The west invested trillions of dollars over the past 4 decades in China not to mention Taiwan, south korea, Japan sending engineers to train Chinese counterparts on process knowledge with Europe selling their most advanced machining equipment etc. expecting india to start replacing China in 1 yr is ridiculous. If the west needs India to be an alternative sourcing partner then it better have the same appetite to invest in tech infra in India. Indians are no better or worse than any other culture in making stuff. We make great software because it takes very little infrastructure to get started and no airports / seaports / road infrastructure is needed to export it.

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blu02 t1_j97ljjv wrote

The real answer here. I can't believe the number of stupid statements on here.

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Rabo_McDongleberry t1_j987j8v wrote

Seriously. Not to mention something is going on. I've seen this same headline being posted all over Reddit for the past 2-3 days.

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FunBrians t1_j98irfm wrote

“Something is going on”

Like what? An article written 4 days ago has people discussing it?

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ForkLiftBoi t1_j99yqqq wrote

I'll be candid, haven't read the article, but I work in Manufacturing of large equipment, and when I first saw this headline I thought "50%? That's pretty good."

Apple has rigorous standards especially on the outer casing because that is so core to the brand's image. There's a reason every phone kinda looks iphoneish with the camera bumps, the upper left hand corner, etc.

This is double edged sword for India's manufacturing. They're newer to this sector and standards AND they're adhering to apple's standards. 50% is damn good for a first go around.

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nova9001 t1_j98phee wrote

>We make great software because it takes very little infrastructure to get started and no airports / seaports / road infrastructure is needed to export it.

Infrastructure like roads/ports need to be built by your own government. China invested into its own infrastructure. The West invested into their own factories.

You can't expect the West to build your infrastructure for you.

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__s10e t1_j9594v7 wrote

So, as expected?

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USS_Hornet t1_j98zvc2 wrote

I would have expected that given my personal experience with lack of quality. Everything was always just "that's good enough".

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Neutral-President t1_j95679h wrote

This is not surprising, given the very different work cultures between the two countries.

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MendocinoReader t1_j97cd7g wrote

There is also a learning curve in manufacturing ….

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LoveThieves t1_j97zpeq wrote

I wonder how steep it is. Like all the way from high quality standards down to seeing teeth marks on the case?

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Neutral-President t1_j988006 wrote

Even the Chinese factories seem to only put out quality products when their foreign clients demand only the highest quality control standards.

Left to their own devices, they seem content shipping really inconsistent stuff. I can’t think of many Chinese-owned brands have made a big impact internationally.

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i-can-sleep-for-days t1_j98h1pp wrote

Anker? Most people seem to trust them over the “no name” stuff these days but they were also a no name when they started.

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Neutral-President t1_j98m6bz wrote

Well, until they lied about data encryption on their eufy cameras, and how they kept phoning home even when they were supposed to be offline? Yeah, they blew a lot of trust.

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LoveThieves t1_j98i9rv wrote

I don't know if this is completely true but heard that "cheating" is a gray area in China in terms of culture. SO if it's down to schools or business, seems like that company had outside influence or they are so sick and tired of making cheap low quality products, someone there pulled a 180.

Edit: The only anecdotal evidence I is asking a few different students from China that go to the university.

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Altruistic_Party2878 t1_j9aejdq wrote

Yeah if you don’t know, maybe don’t make some broad generalization and ignorant statement about “culture”of 1.6 billion people.

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Neutral-President t1_j9cco7v wrote

It's not so much "cheating" but consider this: China is a communist country (for the most part). The concept of "ownership" doesn't really apply to a lot of things in their culture. Everything is owned "by the people," so the idea of intellectual property doesn't really exist.

If they see something and think they can make a version of it, they do it. It's why even the good factories that make stuff for export have parallel production lines that make the same product with less time invested in quality control for their domestic market. Some of that stuff leaks out as "counterfeit" goods.

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WingSK27 t1_ja2h13j wrote

DJI, Lenovo, OnePlus, Xiaomi. There's a reason why Huawei equipment were everywhere before getting ban.

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BeKind_BeTheChange t1_j98ccfu wrote

I don't think so. It's a lack of quality control. There are experts in every facet of manufacturing and quality equipment suppliers, along with Six Sigma and ISO procedures that are readily available. The only excuse for poor manufacturing output is a lack of desire to put out a quality product, usually caused by greed.

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Which-Adeptness6908 t1_j98izeu wrote

You can have problems with the manufacturing process which can take some time to dial in. This type of problem isn't due to a poor quality control, virtually every new plant has this type of problem.

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BeKind_BeTheChange t1_j98o6cs wrote

A 50% failure rate for something like a phone case isn’t remotely normal. If it were a new semiconductor process, ok, we can talk. This is a phone case.

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Which-Adeptness6908 t1_j99dbcn wrote

Firstly cad cam is nontrivial at the tolerance that apple will require.

The problem with the alternate theory is that the manufacturer knows they have a quality issue and are ignoring it or are so incompetent that they can't fix it.

Neither seems likely and I suspect there is a little bit of racism behind the comments in this thread.

Right now the manufacturer will be suffering cost blowouts and possibly contract penalties. I suspect they aren't sitting around going, 'this is the Indian way' with a little head wobble.

But the theory that Indians are lazy and incompetent is a much better story.

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Timbershoe t1_j99xq7o wrote

I don’t see racism, that’s a lazy defence.

What I can see is that India has a similar problem to most developed countries. Skilled workers are now expensive, the cheaper workers they can afford to employ are not particularly good.

Same thing would happen in France, Canada, etc. you can’t afford to deliver the quality because the market won’t provide the correct workers for the budget.

The reason people are interested is because Vietnam, Brazil and Indonesia are starting to fill the gap of low price product production. People are watching to see if India can shift to skilled specialist manufacturing, or will fail the transition.

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Keeperofthecube t1_j99x97d wrote

The issue 100% comes back to quality control. The Japanese car makers figured this out a long time ago and pioneered putting quality control into the qualification process from the start. Tons of time and money is now invested in the qualification steps before production even starts on most manufacturing done for automotive and medical devices, as well as a lot more but it's a little less strict. Source: I'm a quality engineer for a medical device manufacturing company.

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USS_Hornet t1_j9903zu wrote

It is more that greed. You have to want to make good products.

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USS_Hornet t1_j9901u0 wrote

They've been learning since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution and it doesn't seem to be working.

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USS_Hornet t1_j9901xl wrote

Every time I say that, from personal experience with both groups in IT, I get accused of be racist. Nevermind the obvious that nothing of high quality or high technology is made in India.

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MiloGoesToTheFatFarm t1_j969fdx wrote

I’ve worked with several Indian people and they’ve always been some of the brightest, hardest working people on my team.

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Neutral-President t1_j96bjen wrote

I’m not saying the people aren’t bright or hardworking. Not in the least.

But India does not have a strong history or global impact in manufacturing hard goods, not in the way China has.

The “hustle” in India seems to have a different set of motivations compared to the Chinese work ethic. It might come down to the individualistic ethic vs. the collective.

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Ok_Ninja_1602 t1_j96chve wrote

I agree regarding manufacturing, India does not have advanced electronics manufacturing like US, China, Taiwan or SK. Really intellectual people, much more open in my experiences.

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LoveThieves t1_j9801bu wrote

I noticed the quality for bath towels (for the same price) Made in India are nicer than ones made in China but other than that I don't expect great results from India (or another country for the low price/product output) knowing how massive the Chinese manufacturing system is for tech and their factory work culture.

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xasdown t1_j97ufdk wrote

The ones that are good are really good, the ones that are bad are really really bad, ive got both experiences and let me tell you that the ones that are bad quickly make you forget about the good ones, i dont know why in India is like this, because every nationality has good and bad professionals

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GMW-5610 t1_j959awa wrote

Turns out moving out of China is a bit more difficult than Reddit makes it out to be.

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MendocinoReader t1_j97ch96 wrote

Yeah, but money talks — if the bottom line makes sense, it will happen.

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Evilbred t1_j9a71zz wrote

This change isn't about saving money, it's about risk management and business continuity planning.

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Blackfoxar t1_j95lhqc wrote

So i see a reason why the next iphone will be much more expensive

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Gutmach1960 t1_j973i16 wrote

Quality control is that bad in India ?

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Charged_Dreamer t1_j97zn0i wrote

iPhones have been manufactured in China for decades before reaching where they are today. Meanwhile India has had only a year and it's not that bad. Efficiency will likely increase over time.

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USS_Hornet t1_j9908tl wrote

This isn't high tech. This is a simple machined part and they can't get that right.

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LoveThieves t1_j97z8qw wrote

I don't really like buying things from China but always wondering what happens when companies started gambling on different countries to mass produce electronics.

Imagine some of it just filled with random shit and mickey mouse the entire goods.

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Difficult-Bear8886 t1_j96e3oi wrote

Indians are actually hardworking and innovative than most of the people I have seen. Nothing happens overnight l, they need time some more years maybe.

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OccasinalMovieGuy t1_j99u6k1 wrote

India is an extremely price sensitive market, there is very little consideration for quality on majority of the products made over there. Designing a product is pretty much non existent. Sharp edges, paint blobs, uneven welding, poor hygiene in bakery restaurants the list goes on and on. Even the wax candles made don't have a straight wick running through them.

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morbyxxx t1_j97asue wrote

Things used to be and some still are low quality from china (chinesium). It will take time not only to move but also to bring the standard up. Still worth doing.

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[deleted] t1_j961z49 wrote

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[deleted] t1_j96a1kt wrote

[removed]

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MiloGoesToTheFatFarm t1_j9699jv wrote

Are 3D printers not at a point where they can just print most of these parts?

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azurleaf t1_j96va17 wrote

Apple tried a plastic iPhone, they called it the 5c. People nicknamed it the iPhone 5 Cheap.

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