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BoreDominated t1_j0kk8f2 wrote

Reply to comment by apathetic_panda in Among black parents, paternal support and interparental relationship quality can play a protective role, promoting maternal mental health and wellbeing. by Respawan

Why black fathers and not just fathers?

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MittenstheGlove t1_j0miqoc wrote

I mean black fathers are in large absent. I assumed this was to talking in order to push more familial orientation for black parents.

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Own-Crew-3394 t1_j0op136 wrote

Dude, black fathers spend as much, if not more time with their kids as white fathers. They are less likely to be married and/or cohabiting with the others, which is a LOT more about economic pressures for Black men and less about not living or supporting their children.

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MittenstheGlove t1_j0q0rqq wrote

https://fathers.com/the-extent-of-fatherlessness/

According to this you may be right. The definition of fatherlessness is extremely poorly defined in this context.

There needs to be a section for “Amount of time spent with father” for this study. The last section simply shows living with one parent. I’d argue that the time is separated evenly based on what this says.

I personally don’t know my father well and know others that don’t so I have some biases.

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Own-Crew-3394 t1_j0rmfim wrote

Hey Mittens! I like you!!! Thanks for reading and listening and doing your own research. I’m a longtime foster mom. I’m culturally a “white American” and biologically mixed anglo-indian.

I also believed in the myth of the absent Black father until I started fostering teenage boys and finding out. (This is like Reddit’s f* around and find out, but with a LOT more driving kids to school, sports and therapy!)

One thing I found out about is single Black dads who foster, which I was very surprised by, until I found out about single Black dads in general. Guess what, they show up for their kids! They just aren’t married to or living with mom.

That’s more and more of a trend for white dads too. You can scratch your head over it, but it seems to boil down to economics someway, somehow. If both parents need to work full time or more to afford kids, the glue that sticks marriages together can get thin, AND the next generation says hmmmm.. why would I want that? So they have kids young and live apart.

Doesn’t mean Dads stop loving their kids. Now that I’m 20 years in the trenches, and my kids are grown Black men, and my grandkids include growing young Black men, I see it as part of the whole story that dehumanizes Black men. Over violent, over sexed, abandon their children… it’s a bunch of BS and it makes me mad. So what do ya do? Post on Reddit of course ;)

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BoreDominated t1_j0mrpt0 wrote

But there are also white fathers who are absent, to which the findings would be equally applicable, so why focus on black fathers?

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Paranoidexboyfriend t1_j0msa6v wrote

Because the percentage of absent black fathers blows the number of absent white fathers out of the water. 58% of black children are without their father compared to 20% of white children.

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BoreDominated t1_j0msp7v wrote

I know the numbers are higher, but that doesn't imply measures taken to lower the number of absent fathers would only work on black people, does it?

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Smooth_Imagination t1_j0nvhum wrote

I get what you are saying, but they decided to focus on an area, maybe a geographical one with particular relevance to the question. They might have picked a particular racial group because it is understudied as a demographic. We could generalise these findings but since they did their study in a particular group its accurate to highlight the group and not generalise. We would hope the authors follow up in other groups, even though its bleedingly obvious its generalisable, in science you should not state beyond the scope of what your experiment examines.

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sharksandwich81 t1_j0nhiya wrote

This study was specifically on black families in a metropolitan area with high racial disparity. They’re reporting the conclusion of THEIR study. Nobody (outside your imagination) is asserting that this is only true of black families and nobody else.

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BoreDominated t1_j0nivrj wrote

Then why not simply do the study on families in general, why racialize it?

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Smooth_Imagination t1_j0nvymr wrote

Maybe limited funding? If there were variables between those groups to find concrete patterns within each group you would need a larger pool to study. You could say add white, but why just to Black and White and not Asian, Native Americans? As the relationship might not hold true in each group (we can be sure it would, but you cant presume that, scientifically) then you need a large enough pool in each category to get significant results, so that's a much larger study.

The funding probably also stipulated to look at populations deemed to have particular under-researched issues or needs.

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apathetic_panda t1_j0kkpup wrote

1)Because fathers generally aren't assumed to be tardy or absent in demonstrations of care or provision of food and shelter by all manner of media

2)Black fathers have been specifically impeded by the State from doing so in the United States for centuries

  1. The American Medical Association is trash
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BoreDominated t1_j0km2kn wrote

>Black fathers have been specifically impeded by the State from doing so in the United States for centuries

Impeded from doing what, being fathers?

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nothanks86 t1_j0kmfit wrote

Hard to parent from prison.

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BoreDominated t1_j0ms74n wrote

What does that have to do with the state impeding them? Are you suggesting the state shouldn't lock them up for choosing to commit crimes?

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bmorejaded t1_j0kxy93 wrote

Mass encarceration was a real problem. Until relatively recently men had to abandon their families to get government support. This was actually enforced with black families. Even now women lose childcare when dad lives at home even if he's looking for a job. Recent studies have shown that black men are more likely than fathers from other demographics to engage actively in parenting. I believe this has something to do with how hard it is for black men to find jobs.

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S_SubZero t1_j0m8afs wrote

What “government support” do they need?

This all sorta rolls back to the whole, very frowned-upon common sense of “I’m not financially or otherwise prepared to have a family so maybe I should just keep it in my pants and stick to jacking off to porn.” It sounds silly to say, but not actively creating children to care for substantially reduces the number of children one has to care for.

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bmorejaded t1_j0oqu4b wrote

Isn't having children likely to reduce the standard of living for anyone. I'm not sure how this is relevant. Should Black people not have children because things like employment discrimination make it more difficult? The US is a harsh environment for Black and Native American people especially. Should they not have children because of that? What about people in harsh environments all over the world where resources are scarce? You seem to be implying that oppressed people should die out by not reproducing or something. Maybe finish the job the system is imposing.

Btw people need support for all kinds of reasons. In some cases, it may be because racist employers make it difficult to find work or a bread winner gets incarcerated or somebody gets cancer or some other disease or somebody dies. All of which affect Black and Native people at higher rates.

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S_SubZero t1_j0os2fw wrote

A couple who do not believe they are prepared to have a child, should not have a child.

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bmorejaded t1_j0q8hyl wrote

What do you mean by not prepared and what does that have to do with the prison industrial complex and the other things I talked about? You can be completely capable and have the government ratfuck you. There is research that says that black men are treated poorly when they try to be involved in their kids' education. All of these things are external forces that make it more difficult for black men to parent. What don't you understand?

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S_SubZero t1_j0q9ia7 wrote

How prepared a couple believes they are depends on them. Couples can analyze their finances and whatever other factors apply to them, and make the decision when they feel they are ready to do so. The topic is about black parents but any potential parents can do these things.

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apathetic_panda t1_j0l2cpb wrote

Do you teach in our schools or more specifically lecture for the PTA?

BECAUSE somebody should pay you to

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bmorejaded t1_j0l2pk6 wrote

I teach at the college level. I taught at black schools in impoverished areas and I'm from Baltimore. I've seen this stuff happen in real time.

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apathetic_panda t1_j0l31b2 wrote

You're an actual hero.

Any neat tricks kids these days are up to that'll rock the block?

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apathetic_panda t1_j0kmm2o wrote

Yes.

Or did you think housing + hiring discrimination & mass incarceration comes with a free turkey?

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BoreDominated t1_j0msclq wrote

When you say "mass incarceration", are they being incarcerated for shits and giggles, or because they've chosen to do something to cause them to be incarcerated?

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apathetic_panda t1_j0msr5o wrote

Choices. Oh aren't you clever?

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BoreDominated t1_j0mszvc wrote

Okay, so they're not really being impeded by the state there, since the state is incarcerating them because they're committing crimes. It's the decision to commit the crime that impeded them.

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apathetic_panda t1_j0mtcpv wrote

Nice assumptions. Totally realistic basis. Got any to close this absolutist argument with?

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BoreDominated t1_j0mtmb3 wrote

Unless you're suggesting black people are being falsely imprisoned en masse, I think it's a justified assumption.

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