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MandelbrotFace t1_j36lh0v wrote

Does anyone feel like consciousness isn't really a thing in itself? Like it's a necessary illusion created in the brain in order to be aware and accept information?

I was chatting recently with a friend about consciousness and the sense of self. I suggested that if we could go back in time to when he was born, and he was transported somewhere else, to another country and raised by a different family then maybe it would be the equivalent of a completely different person and consciousness (basically the same as if a different baby was born). It wouldn't be 'him growing up somewhere else', it would literally be an entirely different 'consciousness' and sense of self operating in that body.

It is amazing that when matter in the universe is left for long enough, it eventually creates a self aware object that wants to study itself and everything around it. What a crazy ride reality is.

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[deleted] t1_j36zp8f wrote

[deleted]

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BraveFrakingToaster t1_j37tuwv wrote

That’s been my sticking point for years. When we press on “consciousness” The definitions become so untestable and vague that it feels like it’s just a modern place holder for a soul or spirit. That which makes us distinctly human.

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WebFront t1_j37fazk wrote

I really struggle to understand what consciousness is supposed to be. Panpsychism has the same ring to me as "consciousness is an illusion". And both mean nothing to me. Except of course I think I am conscious 🤔? if 2 people swap concuisnesses what would change about them? I'd say nothing. It seems to be just a brain function that allows for us to self-relate (which makes sense if your survival is based on building models that explain the past and predict the future in relation to yourself).

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MandelbrotFace t1_j37sgmi wrote

That's exactly what I've thought about the swapping consciousnesses ... It's not like you can be 2 consciousnesses to compare in the same body; in the switch there would be no difference. This makes me question exactly what it is!

Part of me thinks it's only a phenomenon of the physical brain but then I think what if something could be perfectly duplicated down to the most fundamental sub atomic level. Duplicate an inanimate object and we have no problem with the idea that the duplicate is in every way identical to the original. Duplicate a person and what becomes of the consciousness? I would think they would be separate and diverge from that point of duplication, with the duplicate having all the memories etc of the original, and also assuming they are the original. But they would be separate. Maybe consciousness is inherent to instances of matter itself and linked in some hidden way like time is to space. I mean... I'm waffling now, but it's mind boggling to think about

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defaltusr t1_j36wi3z wrote

But what we all dont know, is consciousness

  1. Really the end of it or is there something above consciousness that we cant grasp and understand? Like a „mindless“ bedbug will never be able to comprehend consciousness outside its limited brainfunctions.
  2. really a winning trait. In the end maybe the „consciousness feeling“ is a loosing trait, destroys itself and goes back to „mindlesness“. Like in that episode of love death and robots.
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kittnnn t1_j377z2x wrote

The article glossed over this possibility, but it really does seem to be the truth. I have a theory of mind about myself as a separate entity, and have tinkered with my brain over the years to see how it reacts. And I've come to believe that consciousness doesn't really exist. The narrative in my head follows the chemistry in my body, not the other way around. You only need to experience mental illness or psychoactive chemicals to see this in action.

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raintree234 t1_j37h2g2 wrote

I’ve had this thought related to race. If I was born a different race, I’m sure (or am I sure?) my life would be different.

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MandelbrotFace t1_j37pyqq wrote

Your life would definitely be different ... But would it even be you at all? Would your internal thoughts and preferences, even intelligence be the same as they are now? Really interesting to think about.

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raintree234 t1_j38iqhd wrote

First of all, this makes my mind hurt a little...!

But then come thoughts of destiny, am I/was I destined to be who I am?

Or the old science fiction time travel premise of being the "same person" but in a different time and place.

I also think about these things when I vacation. I ponder what it would be like if I had grown up in this place. Granted, I am typically in a pleasant location. I rarely have these thoughts when in the "bad part of town" :)

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darudesandstrom t1_j37dcl3 wrote

Amazing, if this is the only universe that ever was, mundane if this is one out of an unfathomable number of universes.

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kfpswf t1_j37izpw wrote

>and raised by a different family then maybe it would be the equivalent of a completely different person and consciousness (basically the same as if a different baby was born).

Consciousness remains the same in whatever body you observe it. What does differ is the conditioned individual, AKA the ego. And you're absolutely right, the conditioned individual is completely unreal. And your example is apt for demonstrating this. If Hitler was an orphan raised by an adoptive Jewish family, he might have turned out to be a completely different person in history. It's not as if there's an archetype of Hitler as an anti-semite existing somewhere outside of existence.

Most of us who fantasize about winning a million dollars, or going back in time to relive life, do so with the assumption that you would end up being the exact same person we are. But in reality, even a small event can completely change the course of history, so how can the individual hope to also remain the same.

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