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fitzroy95 t1_j29qejz wrote

Reply to comment by AllanfromWales1 in We have all the resources we need to solve the world's greatest problems, so long as we can rise above our tribal instincts. by IAI_Admin

Problem 2: being able to discuss them honestly without being drowned out and silenced by propaganda and misinformation from the rich and powerful, who are far more interested in amassing more wealth and power than actually addressing any issues.

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Padhome t1_j2d28m4 wrote

It's so strange to me, even with a fraction of their wealth they would still be living in the same quality of luxury. The only reason they want wealth is for its own sake, or they want absolute power, both of which are fundamentally evil, shortsighted, and inevitably self-destructive.

These are addicts, except the damage they cause is global.

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Feline_Diabetes t1_j2d3byn wrote

Yeah it's weird isn't it.

I personally can't imagine caring about more money past a certain amount, but I think the process of becoming that wealthy weeds out people like us who don't want it enough.

Thus, the very richest are always, by a process of elimination, people for whom no amount is sufficient.

Or that's my theory anyway.

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Padhome t1_j2d3gfx wrote

I just call it for what it is, an addiction. One who's victims are in the hundreds of millions if not billions, and they are the number one enemy to the world.

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Sylvurphlame t1_j2dw3ec wrote

> I personally can’t imagine caring about more money past a certain amount, but I think the process of becoming that wealthy weeds out people like us who don’t want it enough.

I’ve known a couple guys who had way more money than you’d think, based on their apparent standard of living. Like, he had a nice car, but you don’t get the first hints until you realize his car has every last bell an whistle and then some custom stuff too.

And then you notice his suits when he’s not wearing random anime and band t-shirts… but you had to be paying attention. Nothing about his attitude or everyday demeanor screamed “independently wealthy for several lifetimes.”

So those people do exist, but yeah I think there’s some sort of critical moral inflection point that 99% of the ultra-rich fail along the way.

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bildramer t1_j2d8gnv wrote

If you own 51% of a company, and that company ends up making billions, and the stock is then valued as such, the media will call you "billionaire" - but that money isn't real as long as you don't sell a fraction your ownership.

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eric_trump_laptop03 t1_j2d5vrn wrote

No rich man ever got to where they are by being ethical. Sure some inherit the money, but do they really count?

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Padhome t1_j2d9gm8 wrote

Just because you inherit wealth doesn't mean you aren't responsible for what you do with it. Take 99% of billionaires for example.

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Sylvurphlame t1_j2duli1 wrote

> These are addicts, except the damage they cause is global.

That’s probably a pretty damn accurate assessment. At a certain point, the drive that some people have to “accomplish more” just become a drive to “have more.” There’s never a point that’s “enough.” It’s a vicious cycle

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zjustice11 t1_j2digfk wrote

“ and I would trade it all, for just a little more” Monty Burns

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AllanfromWales1 t1_j2a88wr wrote

It's not only the rich and powerful that are strong on propaganda and misinformation, though.

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fitzroy95 t1_j2a9cvo wrote

agreed, however they are also the ones who own the media and platforms that enable others to push similar agenda.

and, in a number of nations, they own the politicians who are also pushing similar agenda

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AllanfromWales1 t1_j2a9vcz wrote

The rich and powerful aren't a single bloc all pushing the same perspectives. That sounds a bit too much like conspiracy theories for my taste.

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fitzroy95 t1_j2aavlm wrote

to an extent they are.

They tend to have a common interest in increasing their own wealth and power. How they choose to do those things certainly varies massively between them, however the common factors are that they have zero interest in helping the rest of the population, and will willingly kneecap public initiatives if they can't profit off it.

It doesn't need any kind of conspiracy, it just requires people with influence and greed who are manipulating society in their own interests, at the expense of everyone else

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AllanfromWales1 t1_j2ac0y6 wrote

As I said elsewhere, capitalism requires a market. Making more and more people poor removes a significant proportion of that market. Bill Gates can't get rich unless people are buying computer software. Bezos can't get rich if people can't afford to use Amazon. Lower down the chain, Ronald McDonald needs people to buy burgers. And so on. It's far from obvious that the guys at the top don't care about us - they rely on us. Obviously there's a limit to how far they're willing to go, but it's not as black and white as you seem to suggest.

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SabotageGoodActually t1_j2al1x7 wrote

This is what is commonly know as contradiction of capitalism (one of many). It’s actually one of the reasons why there are frequent “crises” in the market. These crises were explained in detail by anti capitalists over a century ago, and it was shown that they are actually very predictable. Capitalists don’t care.

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Padhome t1_j2d2dqv wrote

It invariably promotes short-term goals over long-term viability. Basically, "I got mine so who cares?"

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VitriolicViolet t1_j2fnk98 wrote

and? short term thinking plagues humanity, from election cycles to 70% people eating enough to be overweight to drug dealers killing their customers by cutting products (hell major corporation do it ffs, just slower)

these people are just humans in the end, they want more money tomorrow and so do their investors (not to mention half will be dead by the time it gets bad anyway).

they are not uniquely smart or skilled, every society in human history has had a class like this and every single time they have chosen short term profit (be that financial or power/control based) to the point of destroying the society they are in.

what is happening now is what happened to every major society in history, those with power have enough to run us into the ground trying to get more and so they will.

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_Moregasmic_ t1_j2cctt3 wrote

It sounds too much like the iconic men in a dark room smoking cigars planning the demise of anything that stands between them and global domination, I agree... That said, I think that iconic picture is a tool to distract from the fact that the power structures of human civilization have always been inherently conspiratorial... Obviously there's not some single monolithic group conspiring, there are many different people vying for power, and they either work against each other, or together, depending on how they believe it will serve their own agenda best... But "conspiracy theories" is a term that was demonstrably created as a strategy to diminish dissent.

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That_one_guy_u-know t1_j2cjjyd wrote

They don't need to all be working together. To bring it down to reality a bit, companies in the US need to be solely dedicated to their shareholders. ->Lobbying is a thing and companies engage in it because it helps them make more money than it costs them. Ladida companies give the government a cut for permission to make more money off of the general population.

Then take this to every other industry. Some of the big ones being Food, Pharma, and Tech. 0 conspiracy theories in this

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VitriolicViolet t1_j2fn638 wrote

class solidarity.

no conspiracy needed at all. like how most people on welfare vote for higher payments and most of the middle class vote for tax cuts most of the wealthy 'donate' to both parties for favorable treatment (where do you think Trump got his billion or Biden got his 950 million for their respective campaigns?)

taken in aggregate it means that as a class the wealthy do indeed form what is effectively a single bloc on certain issues ie lower taxes, more corporate rights and power, more subsidies, access to captive markets like healthcare, energy, housing etc.

the easiest way to make more money as a billionaire is not innovation or invention its bribing both parties for favorable treatment (its why the list of the people who own 50% of global wealth gets shorter every year, they fight each other but they tag-team the people).

there is no conspiracy, these people are not friends or a cabal they just have massive power and influence and at that level the easiest ways to get more happen to be pretty much the same.

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