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ShalmaneserIII t1_iqqedzz wrote

Reply to comment by apriorian in Utopia”: meaning ‘no place’; from Greek: οὐ (not’) and τόπος (‘place’) by Sphaerocypraea

So how do you prevent beggars?

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apriorian t1_iqqfix4 wrote

The crucial thing is to understand how deep the problem is, it literally began in Eden, you can reject the divinity if you wish but the story perfectly encapsulates the problem. No man created the natural world and no man has a right to own any part of it, not publicly and not privately. So long as we permit this we have freeloading, that is the root of it. But as said, no one wants to admit how deep and pervasive the problem is.

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ShalmaneserIII t1_iqqfwev wrote

Okay, but do you have to own food to eat it? Or what of the food you gather or grow?

And it seems you're suggesting hunting and gathering?

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biedl t1_iqqh284 wrote

Rights are human concepts. There are no intrinsic rights to humans. If a society agrees upon rights, man has rights.

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apriorian t1_iqqh5sv wrote

Of course.

If a society can say a man is a slave and he is a slave the obverse is obviously true.

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biedl t1_iqqh9nw wrote

Again, this has nothing to do with truth.

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CegeRoles t1_iqqtehq wrote

So…what? You’re saying I don’t even have a right to own the house I live in?

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apriorian t1_iqqva0b wrote

Technically yes but personal ownership is not the issue. The issue is owning a forest or waterfall or mine and robbing it of all its value. But even owning a factory and making money off the labor of workers is only justified because the employer was given the right to own the factory in the first place. But where does this right come from, who has the right to give anyone this right? Do you think a person has a right to claim a continent for his own or his monarch? Do you think a people have a right to say they own it, they can but the only way they can prove this is through killing anyone who challanges their right, as in war. But if they can do this why cannot a criminal do the same thing? Its precisely the same kind of behaviour.

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CegeRoles t1_iqqzh2m wrote

The right is given to us via the social contract. We have all agreed upon on certain rules and conditions in exchange for the benefits of civilization.

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apriorian t1_iqr2f13 wrote

You must have gotton me drunk. How could you have tricked me like this? Its not fair.

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CegeRoles t1_iqr2p84 wrote

What isn’t fair?

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apriorian t1_iqr3fz9 wrote

You guys getting me drunk and having me sign a social compact when i was not fully conscious of what i was doing.

How about if I told you that you all agreed to send me $100.00 next week, how would you feel about that. And do not tell me you do not remember. I said you did and so that is that, case closed.

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CegeRoles t1_iqrm5nc wrote

Where exactly did you get the idea that the social contract was meant to be fair?

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apriorian t1_iqrvwr9 wrote

I never said that.

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CegeRoles t1_iqrx4qo wrote

Then why are you complaining about it?

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apriorian t1_iqssepg wrote

I cannot explain what is in your mind or why, sorry.

I certainly was not commenting on an invisible, thing that does not exist.

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CegeRoles t1_iqsv69y wrote

Could have fooled me. Your entire history is nothing but comments about an invisible thing that doesn't exist.

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apriorian t1_iquusdx wrote

Could have fooled me. Your entire history is nothing but comments about an invisible thing that doesn't exist FOR ATHEISTS.

You give me a picture of your personality and i will share one of my God.

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CegeRoles t1_iqr3wd5 wrote

So? No one will stop you from leaving. Go buy a boat and live in the ocean.

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