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PuttinOnTheTitzz t1_jbnrlue wrote

So, I've been familiar with that quite for decades but hadn't come across it in some time.

Is he suggesting then all of existence expands out in change and then collapses in on itself and starts over? Even the universe? Cause if I were reborn, the world I was born into would be different and impossible to redo.

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toblotron t1_jbo2s92 wrote

No, he means that in order for you to know that you are doing the best you can with your life, you can pretend that you will live the same life over and over again for eternity. If you would accept the eternal return, you know your are doing the best with your life; living it as well as you can

If not, you should question how you live, and try harder to live a life worth living

This is a thought-experiment

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CleganeForHighSepton t1_jbpokwc wrote

The thought experiment / existential question of the eternal return holds regardless, but as an aside, Nietzsche was influenced by scientific ideas at the time that suggested the possibility of a literal eternal return, something like a hard reset of the universe at some point in the distant future, leading to a literal re-living of our lives, over and over again.

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toblotron t1_jbpuz76 wrote

Hmm.. Interesting.

I thought the article was good -gave me a much clearer view of the concept than I had before

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Maximus_En_Minimus t1_jbtvdre wrote

It is still debated if he believed it or not; he doesn’t write it like it is thought-experiment:

——

“The new concept of the universe. The universe exists; it is nothing that grows into existence and that passes out of existence. Or, better still, it develops, it passes away, but it never began to develop, and has never ceased from passing away; it maintains itself in both states. It lives on itself, its excrements are its nourishment. We need not concern ourselves for one instant with the hypothesis of a created world. The concept create is to-day utterly indefinable and unrealisable; it is but a word which hails from superstitious ages, nothing can be explained with a word. The last attempt that was made to conceive of a world that began occurred quite recently, in many cases with the help of logical reasoning,—generally, too, as you will guess, with an ulterior theological motive. Several attempts have been made lately to show that the concept that "the universe has an infinite past (regressus in infinitum) is contradictory, it was even demonstrated, it is true, at the price of confounding the head with the tail. Nothing can prevent me from calculating backwards from this moment of time, and of saying: "I shall never reach the end"; just as I can calculate without end in a forward direction, from the same moment. It is only when I wish to commit the error—I shall be careful to avoid it—of reconciling this correct concept of a regressus in infinitum with the absolutely unrealisable concept of a finite progressus up to the present; only when I consider the direction (forwards or backwards) as logically indifferent, that I take hold of the head—this very moment—and think I hold the tail: this pleasure I leave to you, Mr. Dühring!... I have come across this thought in other thinkers before me, and every time I found that it was determined by other ulterior motives (chiefly theological, in favour of a creator spiritus). If the universe were in any way able to congeal, to dry up, to perish; or if it were capable of attaining to a state of equilibrium; or if it had any kind of goal at all which a long lapse of time, immutability, and finality reserved for it (in short, to speak metaphysically, if becoming could resolve itself into being or into nonentity), this state ought already to have been reached. But it has not been reached: it therefore follows.... This is the only certainty we can grasp, which can serve as a corrective to a host of cosmic hypotheses possible in themselves. If, for instance, materialism cannot consistently escape the conclusion of a finite state, which William Thomson has traced out for it, then materialism is thereby refuted. [Pg 428] If the universe may be conceived as a definite quantity of energy, as a definite number of centres of energy,—and every other concept remains indefinite and therefore useless,—it follows therefrom that the universe must go through a calculable number of combinations in the great game of chance which constitutes its existence. In infinity, at some moment or other, every possible combination must once have been realised; not only this, but it must have been realised an infinite number of times. And inasmuch as between every one of these combinations and its next recurrence every other possible combination would necessarily have been undergone, and since every one of these combinations would determine the whole series in the same order, a circular movement of absolutely identical series is thus demonstrated: the universe is thus shown to be a circular movement which has already repeated itself an infinite number of times, and which plays its game for all eternity.—This conception is not simply materialistic; for if it were this, it would not involve an infinite recurrence of identical cases, but a finite state. Owing to the fact that the universe has not reached this finite state, materialism shows itself to be but an imperfect and provisional hypothesis.” 1067.

—-

“And do ye know what "the universe" is to my mind? Shall I show it to you in my mirror? This universe is a monster of energy, without beginning or end; a fixed and brazen quantity o; energy which grows neither bigger nor smaller, which does not consume itself, but only alters its face; as a whole its bulk is immutable, it is a household without either losses [Pg 431] [Pg 429] [Pg 430]

or gains, but likewise without increase and without sources of revenue, surrounded by nonentity as by a frontier, it is nothing vague or wasteful, it does not stretch into infinity; but it is a definite quantum of energy located in limited space, and not in space which would be anywhere empty. It is rather energy everywhere, the play of forces and force-waves, at the same time one and many, agglomerating here and diminishing there, a sea of forces storming and raging in itself, for ever changing, for ever rolling back over in calculable ages to recurrence, with an ebb and flow of its forms, producing the most complicated things out of the most simple structures; producing the most ardent, most savage, and most contradictory things out of the quietest, most rigid, and most frozen material, and then returning from multifariousness to uniformity, from the play of contradictions back into the delight of consonance, saying yea unto itself, even in this homogeneity of its courses and ages; for ever blessing itself as something which recurs for all eternity,—a becoming which knows not satiety, or disgust, or weariness:—this, my Dionysian world of eternal self-creation, of eternal self-destruction, this mysterious world of twofold voluptuousness; this, my "Beyond Good and Evil" without aim, unless there is an aim in the bliss of the circle, without will, unless a ring must by nature keep goodwill to itself,—would you have a name for my world? A solution of all your riddles? Do ye also want a light, ye most concealed, strongest and most undaunted men of the blackest midnight?—This world is the Will to Power—and nothing else!And even ye yourselves are this will to power—and nothing besides!”

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KodeineKonnoisseur t1_jbs7yn3 wrote

It's not a thought experiment; it's literal, to an extent.

Within the 'god is dead' conceptual framework, Nietzsche needed a post-christian metaphysical formulation - eternal reoccurrence was his best shot at that.

I specify "to an extent" because Nietzsche's reliance on the theory in his work was limited by his inability to make it logically bulletproof, but he really did believe in the idea of a cyclical universe.

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[deleted] t1_jbovcl5 wrote

I would accept being me and living my life over and over again though I’m not sure I’m utilizing my life to the best of my ability but does that matter? Does this mean I still accept the eternal return? What is living life the best one can mean? That idea seems relative to the individuals perspective and desires, the only absolute clear answer is that we all die. I’m not sure I’m using my life the best way, but I only know my life and my perspectives so I can only live this life and I’m gonna die just like everyone before and after me.

Sorry don’t mean to ramble.

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toblotron t1_jbpuqh3 wrote

I think the idea is that the more you live your life to the fullest, the more you would embrace the eternal return - just my impression from the article -i certainly don't know much about Nietzsche:)

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Tealtime t1_jbp0jff wrote

>would accept being me and living my life over and over again

Sorry if i doubt that. It would put you closer to being the Übermensch than probably anyone ever. You sure there wouldnt be a single small thing you would have wanted to be different?

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[deleted] t1_jbp0s0l wrote

You don’t need to apologize for your opinion, why do you feel that way though? I love being me, you don’t love being you?

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[deleted] t1_jbp1owr wrote

I mean I’m very accepting of who I am, how people are or can be and the imperfections of the world. I doubt even the most successful people In history wouldn’t change details and choices they’ve made because perfection doesn’t exist. What do you mean a single small thing? I regret yelling at my dog for having an accident in the house, I wouldn’t change my life or who I am 🤷🏻‍♂️

Like I truly just don’t want to or can’t imagine being anything besides what and where I am.

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Tealtime t1_jbpf82b wrote

How old are you....?

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[deleted] t1_jbph7uc wrote

32 why?

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Tealtime t1_jbqyz1s wrote

Was shouting at your dog really the worst thing you ever did or ever experienced? If so, good on you.

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