Submitted by nah_just_ocd t3_z815dy in personalfinance
PARA9535307 t1_iyantcm wrote
As others have mentioned, you may be a good candidate for bankruptcy. But understand that you almost certainly make too much to qualify for a wipe-the-slate-clean Chapter 7, and would have to do a payment-plan-for-3-5-years Chapter 13. There are calculators online to help you get a rough idea of what that might look like.
Another path you can consider before bankruptcy is to try and work towards a one-time settlement for a % of what’s owed. Credit cards companies generally won’t consider making a settlement offer until they’re fairly convinced that getting something, even if it’s just a %, is better than nothing. So understand that this plan involves you stopping making payments and getting very behind, and instead building up a cash reserve that you’ll eventually offer as a settlement.
Some warnings about this plan:
- Stopping payments on the cards will tank your credit. Likely not as hard as a full bankruptcy, but it’s still going to hurt. So if you need credit for something (not want, but need, like for an apartment application), get that done FIRST. Because it’s going to be awhile before your credit score improves.
- Your creditors are going to be VERY vocal about your lack of payments. There are laws about when/where/how they’re allowed to contact you (research that and know your rights), but be prepared for them to chase you. Like you’re about to become the recipient of a LOT of phone calls, from people who are well trained in high-pressure techniques to extract money. This will NOT be comfortable. Don’t get drawn into long conversations and let them work you over. “I’m sorry, I can’t afford a payment this month. I’ll let you know if things change next month. Goodbye.” And then hang up. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. You will get a lot of calls, so you’re going to need to get comfortable with doing this.
As for process - all those payments you’ve stopped making? You’re going to be setting them (and however much else you can) aside into a special savings account. You don’t touch this savings account unless something is bleeding and on fire. Because this is your settlement fund, and settlement = freedom, so you want us grow it ASAP.
Once you save up enough in that account to offer maybe 15-25% of one of the outstanding card balances, offer that as a settlement. Some guidelines on this:
- Words matter, and the words are “settlement in full” (no payment plans, no partial settlement, literally “settlement in full”)
- You don’t send them a single dime until they’ve sent you that settlement agreement (“$X is settlement in full for XYZ account”) IN WRITING. Email, snail mail, fax, whatever. But it HAS to be in writing, otherwise they might “forget” the agreement (“oh, Bob doesn’t work here anymore, we have no record of your conversation” type none sense) and keep on chasing you.
- The agreement is not just in writing, but also physically in your hands!. “It’s in the mail” won’t work. No money sent until it’s in writing, in your hands!
- THEN you pay them, via money order. NO personal checks, NO electronic access, or they might “oops” take more, and then you’ll have to travel to hell and back to try and claw that money back.
- Wash, rinse, repeat the process with the other two creditors.
Also note, this settlement negotiation process won’t be as simple as “I’m offering you 20%. Oh, cool, here’s your settlement in full email precisely as you requested. Why thank you, kind sir, your cashiers check is in the mail.” Nope, Not by a long shot. Collectors are often paid on commission, so they’re going to spend awhile trying to convince you that you’re just the most terrible, horrible, no-good person ever for not agreeing to pay more than you’re offering. Some collectors are really scummy and will do this in truly nasty ways.
So again, combat the shenanigans by keeping these conversations short. You’re on the phone longer than maybe 30-60 seconds without an agreement? Then it’s time to just hang up. So “I’m offering $X as settlement in full.” And if they respond with anything other than maybe a legitimately reasonable counteroffer (like “I can’t accept $X, but how about $X + $500?), then just politely cut them off and hang up. Do not get sucked into the vortex of car-dealership-worthy high-pressure sales techniques. Just hang up, then call them back in 2-3 days and repeat your exact same offer. Rinse, repeat, until they accept. May take weeks, possibly months if they’re really stubborn.
Also note, one of the most common scare tactics involved in this process is them threatening to sue you. They’ll make it sound absolutely dreadful, and like they’re ready to file tomorrow. Well:
- This is generally a bluff, as it costs them time and money to sue, and they’d much rather avoid all that. I mean, that’s why the collector’s job exists - to avoid dealing with the costs and hassles of attorneys and court prep and enforcing judgements. So recognize the scare tactic for what it is.
- Tell them, quite honestly and matter-of-factly, that theirs is by far not your only debt, and if they sue you’ll almost certainly get forced into bankruptcy, which could result in them getting far less or even nothing.
And if they actually do sue you (which is again, unlikely, especially if they’re presented with a reasonable settlement offer), then you can evaluate bankruptcy then.
Final note: yeah this is a really, really crappy situation. I know you’re scared, exhausted, ashamed…and I know because I’ve been there. But you are FAR from alone, this CAN be fixed, and while it’s certainly a big hurdle to figure out, it does NOT define you. You are worthy of love and peace and respect, yes, even though you currently have a negative net worth. I mean, I’m a stranger on the internet who can not only attest that it’s possible to come through the other end of a similar situation in one piece, but have gone on to get my finances in good shape, and have so much empathy for what you’re going through that I took the time to write basically the War and Peace of settlement descriptions.
So hang in there.. You are worthy. It will get better. You can absolutely make it past this and go on to great things!
hayseed_byte t1_iyba9ns wrote
>You
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>are
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> worthy. It
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>will
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> get better. You can absolutely make it past this and go on to great things!
I just wanted to repeat that. You are worthy. Things will get better.
equip9mm t1_iycpadp wrote
You need awards my man. You need something better than rewards. I needed this advice last year. I needed to pay 6k and although maybe chump change it was alot of money to me i should have held fast and paid a portion but my account had been frozen and i was able to get that $ paid. They def try to get you.
More people like you on these subreddits.
exstonerchick12 t1_iyd1fr0 wrote
This is amazing, amazing advice. Well put! I hope OP is able to follow this to a T and be rid of their drowning debt.
But I also want to share that it’s possible OP doesn’t make too much money for Chapter 7. It is definitely worth investigating with a competent BK lawyer. I make twice as much and had a simular amount of debt at one point but still qualified. The trick was finding the right lawyer. There are some very, very shady BK lawyers out there who will prey on your vulnerability, but the good ones will artfully run your numbers, charge you fairly and lift you up emotionally.
OP, 100% explore the settlement option, but don’t be put off by exploring bankruptcy, too. I’m 5 years out with several credit cards - all but one has a $0 balance - and a credit score in the very high 700s.
You ARE worthy and it WILL get better.
dwright1542 t1_iydf9vp wrote
Call me shocked that you can have a high 700's with a bankruptcy only 5 years ago. You must have nailed every single payment and worked on credit diligently. Kudos!
wcshrtstop t1_iydouql wrote
6 years after my Chapter 7 closing and I’ve now bought a house and Credit Score is around 730.
You are very much correct, every single payment on time or early. Extra payments, small credit card balances wiped clean monthly, etc. It is very tough but also very doable!
exstonerchick12 t1_iydqnfd wrote
Amazing!!! Congrats on your house!
BK is a challenging road to walk down, but I’m sure you agree a much better one than the sleepless nights and hair falling out that precede making the decision. I hope posting our experiences on here shows that speedyish recovery is definitely possible and relieves a bit of the stigma 🙏
exstonerchick12 t1_iydonm1 wrote
Thank you! And yes, it was WORK. After the 1st year I got a secured card through Capital One for $500. With good credit usage they eventually refunded my money, turned it into a “real” card and increased the limit. Every 6 months or so they increased it, and after about 2 years I applied for another Capital One card. Now I apply for 1 -2 new cards per year with different banks and have been approved for all with increasingly higher limits. I use them once a year for small things and pay them off immediately. I only carry a high balance for big purchases - furniture, travel, car repairs, unexpected medical - on one card with zero interest and throw buckets of money at it monthly. Which I can afford to do because I’m no longer in debt!
I also have a student loan which wasn’t forgiven in the BK. This has undoubtedly helped me establish a solid fixed payment history. Never been late or missed a payment in 10 years.
Bankruptcy isn’t just about getting rid of debt. It’s about a massive shift in understanding money and its psychology - particularly the psychology behind credit usage. The banks WANT you indebted - that’s how they make their money.
I’ve learned the hard way that cash truly is king. If I don’t have it I don’t spend it, period. Unless it’s an absolute emergency I have no reason to run my plastic.
dwright1542 t1_iydra10 wrote
That's interesting. I was credit-adverse for YEARS. When I learned how to manipulate the system though, plastic became a HUGE asset. I run EVERYTHING thru it now, and accrue points. Those points have paid for Home Depot gift cards (when Amex runs the 20% off sale) plane tickets, etc.
exstonerchick12 t1_iyerzig wrote
Credit is amazing if you know how to use it to your advantage. Good on you 🙌 Personally, since I have quite a past with my cards, I can’t risk using them as often as someone in your position might. But I’m with you on the points when you can get them. The only card I use regularly and carry a balance on is a travel points card.
[deleted] t1_iydov7s wrote
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4badfish20 t1_iycot71 wrote
This is an awesome post from start to finish. Thank you for taking the time to write all this out.
[deleted] t1_iybud0e wrote
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