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AlarmedCoffee7422 t1_j88fsxb wrote

The fact that we could even get a new rail service plan for Brooklyn and Queens in general is a miracle. I’m all for expansion to the Bronx, but having that provision from the beginning will absolutely distract and derail the MTA from the whole project bc the Bronx part of the IBX involves complications that the rest of the IBX doesn’t. It sucks, and I think the MTA can be useless, but at this point I’m just happy they’re pursuing the IBX at all. Better start with the current plan and then attempt to expand to the Bronx

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UpperLowerEastSide t1_j89fy8c wrote

If we’re building new rail in the Bronx first priority should be along Fordham Rd and Pelham Pkwy since the Bx12 is one of The City’s busiest bus routes and the Bronx lacks crosstown subway lines.

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j88niwb wrote

The problem is, the IBX is literally useless now that they're using Light rail. It's going to be on surface level roads, with traffic that can get in the way. Besides that, there's a lot of people that will be taking this. That should distract and derail the MTA from working on a Light rail system that no one cares about. Why Light rail? We've already have the tracks. Just do a subway or commuter train line, that's fast and efficient. Light rails, aren't that fast, at all. How do we know if they'll ever give us a line from Bronx to Queens, if they' re not using trains?

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AlarmedCoffee7422 t1_j88w486 wrote

Your post was about IBX not being extended into the Bronx. Why are you arguing with me about the light rail vs heavy rail debate?

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j8a9hz1 wrote

Who said I was arguing? I'm just stating that it's not a rail line. How does one connect train rails, to a light rail? Say that we can hypothetically use the Hell Gate Bridge for trains, now how would we connect tracks over to a light rail? Bronx and Queens connection wouldn't even be possible now.

−4

signal_tower_product t1_j88sbjj wrote

They’re going to have 1 tiny section that will involve street running lmfao

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dust1990 t1_j88ykte wrote

Yes it’s one section. But it’s in the middle of the line. It will slow down the service crippling it’s usefulness.

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signal_tower_product t1_j88yukm wrote

Lol ok, it’s only on a small section of Metropolitan Ave, 69th St & 69th Pl

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WorthPrudent3028 t1_j894d3a wrote

He's not wrong though. Metropolitan Ave traffic is a shitshow on a good day.

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dust1990 t1_j88ztet wrote

It’s a bottleneck plain and simple.

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WagwanDeezNutz t1_j88rhzm wrote

>Why Light rail?

You really don't know?

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j88rzt2 wrote

Yes, I do know. They're definitely not up there with commuter trains, and do you think that a light rail car has enough capacity to deal with an entire line, filled with people?'

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WagwanDeezNutz t1_j88tgql wrote

Light rail is significantly cheaper than heavy rail to implement and maintain, can use existing above ground roadways, transfers road space designated for cars to mass transit, is built to complement existing heavy rail, and is a fuckton more pleasant experience than heading down into the subterranean terrarium of steam and atmospheric rat shit know as the West 4th Station

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j8aa9ge wrote

Heavy rail tracks already exist on the IBX, do they not? Now you have to pay more to remove said tracks, or to build new infrastructure around it. So then what happens when there's more traffic on said roads, because of light rail taking up space? Explain the capacity light rails have, compared to a commuter train? Again, this isn't one city, this is two boroughs with a lot of people. Will light rail get them where they need to go in a timely manner? I was hoping we would get a subway line as well in the future, but I don't know if they would ever do that.

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TarumK t1_j88xmoc wrote

This is the most negative framing of a new development I've ever seen. Were Staten Island and North Jersey also snubbed? I mean come on, if they actually build this it's gonna be the first time in decades a major train line got built this.

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j8a8jd8 wrote

Did Staten Island ever have a train line? What about North Jersey? I mean, they're putting in a light rail, which isn't a train line at all.

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signal_tower_product t1_j88sst2 wrote

IBX to The Bronx would be hard, but a New Haven Line station in East Astoria/Woodside could definitely work (more specifically at 40°45'29"N 73°54'16"W), it would be essentially in walking distance from what could be a small IBX extension to this new station

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j8aan6s wrote

How would they be able to do that?

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signal_tower_product t1_j8aast3 wrote

Build 2 sidings on the outer sides of tracks 1 & 2 than build the platforms there

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philmatu t1_j88nbik wrote

I live in Astoria and personally know a few workers at local restaurants that commute from the Bronx. I know a few workers here who work down near Bay Ridge. Right now all of them drive, and thinking about it, this is probably part of the reason why the Triboro / BQE are always jam packed. Amtrak/NYS should figure out how to work together to get a project like this done... it could alleviate some of the traffic problems.

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iv2892 t1_j89sqy2 wrote

I mean if they have both parking at work and at home then car might be better. Otherwise for 5.50 between going back and forth sounds like a better option . Taking the N/W trains and then switching to 4 or D . Depending on where to the Bronx you are going

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UpperLowerEastSide t1_j8au084 wrote

One option would be to extend the Bx41 SBS to LGA, convert 2 lanes on the Triboro to bus/HOV 3+ and convert two of the Grand Central frontage road lanes to bus only.

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icrbact t1_j8a9twf wrote

I hate the Gothamist for always framing everything in the most negative way. We are likely getting a train line connecting Queens and Brooklyn: big win! We’re also getting several new Metro North Stops in the Bronx dramatically cutting commuting time to Pen (plus Long Island and NJ by extension) and Connecticut: another big win! But sure let’s nitpick and post unrealistic demands instead of celebrating two big victories for public transport in New York, both benefitting traditionally underserved communities.

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j8abwp8 wrote

It's not even a train line, it's a light rail which kills me. That, is a fair negative.

−2

icrbact t1_j8acypn wrote

Why? 96 percent of it won’t use surface streets and the costs are much lower. What’s the downside?

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TeamMisha t1_j88niy7 wrote

PSA (Penn Station Access) and IBX are indeed nice but missing some long neglected links. The alignment of the Hell Gate line is just so bad I guess (LONG curve and elevated sections) it is no wonder we never activated it fully with stations, though it should be possible.. It is a good opportunity to activate MNR and even LIRR if there was 1 more station passed Woodside for city commuters for example. IBX I read made Hell Gate incompatible due to the alleged 6 minute target headways, meaning the bridge doesn't have enough capacity for all service (Amtrak, freight, MNR). I don't recall if a full feasibility study for adding capacity was done. A Queens to Bronx connection would certainly be historic, and I think worth studying.

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Accurate-Wish-8674 t1_j8b0e4f wrote

If they care about the Bronx extended the 6 Pelham line to co op city and bring the Thrid Avenue Elevated line back in south Bronx Clearmount Avenue Webster Ave Bronx between Gun hill road Clearmount Avenue and Queens plaza connecting to the 7 N W trains. Lee cornwell

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team_suba t1_j88tds5 wrote

Staten Island to Bronx :

first time?

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j8aat1g wrote

Why? What happened to them? I do wish that they had a subway or some sort of train line that connected them to Brooklyn and/or Manhattan

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fuchsdh t1_j8bmzrc wrote

There was at one point going to be a train that ran from Bay Ridge across the narrows. They even started on the tunnel before the Second World War and funding cuts killed it, and we got the Verrazano Narrows Bridge instead.

Staten Island really needs a northern rail line, and a rail connection into Brooklyn would be good too, but it's still a very remote place. Few people are going to want to commute two hours by train through Brooklyn into Manhattan.

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OGPants t1_j8938zo wrote

To be fair, nobody likes Staten Island. And ppl generally don't care about the Bronx (speaking as someone raised in the Bx)

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team_suba t1_j893q20 wrote

To be fair, the Bronx is a third world country compared to Staten Island.

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OGPants t1_j8944tt wrote

Doesn't change the fact nobody likes Staten Island

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systemization t1_j88f4v0 wrote

Why are you reposting this?

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j88kz1c wrote

So more people could see, and mods removed the other post because it was unfortunately a screenshot

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ketzal7 t1_j89l73o wrote

I’d rather they just prioritize the bus lanes for the M60 and Q44. Make it true BRT. That would cost way less and be much easier to do than potentially spending billions on a light rail spur to the Bronx (that might not even be grade-separated).

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Redd_ofDiamonds t1_j89aoc1 wrote

Unfortunately nobody cares about the Bronx.

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spring_ways t1_j89tqw9 wrote

Well is it even possible to use the tracks to the Bronx as a light railway. It’s so sad to se every transportation project in NY is mediocre.

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Accurate-Wish-8674 t1_j8azw28 wrote

Leave the light rail between Queens and Brooklyn because they don't have enough subways over there. The reason why they don't need the light rail in the Bronx is because they will definitely have the Connecticut metro North railroad coming back to Pennsylvania station Manhattan Hunts point moriss parkchester and co op city mall. They figure that the metro North railroad is coming to the Bronx to share with the Amtrak trains and the 6 Pelham line being extended to co op city mall. Right now they definitely need to focus on bringing back the Thrid Avenue Elevated line back between Gun hill road Clearmount Webster Ave Bronx and Queens plaza to connect to the 7 N W trains. It doesn't make sense for the light rail to come to the boggie down Bronx and they Have five subways elevated lines except for the Thrid Avenue Elevated line that was talking down on purpose because of the president LaGuardia and Robert mosses that had foust the TA workers to tair down the Thrid Avenue Elevated line down wich was a very very important line that took people from point A to point B and the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line helped out the 2 5 trains. Let me tell you another reason why the Thrid Avenue Elevated line definitely needs to come back is because sometimes during the weekends the 2 5 trains may not be running fully between Wakefield and Flatbush Ave and 149 street Third Ave because they be doing construction and electrical improvements and track maintenance and schedule maintenance. The buses takes forever to come and people are waiting for the bus To come and people were complaining about they don't have no Thrid Avenue Elevated line anymore. They definitely need to bring the Thrid Avenue Elevated line back because it's definitely getting worse over there. It's not the bus operators fault the bus operators need there space instead of the buses being over Crowding. It's definitely doesn't matter where you live in new York city in the Bronx. You are definitely gonna here a lots of noises I tell you that now no matter where you live in new York city even though you hear the trains passing by and people are working heard to get the Job done. A millions and millions of people are definitely missing the Thrid Avenue Elevated line right now. No matter how much they covered it up Lee Cornwell.

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j88ed04 wrote

So the article speaks about how basically, we won't have a Bronx/Queens connection.

Besides already not fulfilling many promises, as of what used to be elevated train lines in Manhattan that were said to be put underground in the future, and never were, we won't get a train line from Queens to Bronx, not that it was ever promised.

I already have many questions. I thought the Penn Station access development was recent, not many years ago. I question why did it take so long? Why did it cost so much, if MTA wants to save money? Has MTA ever planned to rebuild old elevated train lines underground? Why is there no highway tunnel/bridge from Long Island to Connecticut or somewhere in Westchester?

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iliveoffofbagels t1_j88hu6i wrote

>Why is there no highway tunnel/bridge from Long Island to Connecticut or somewhere in Westchester?

from wikipedia(but remember tio look up the page's cited sources for more details)

Opposition

>Moses ran into a problem once the proposal was brought to the Federal Highway Administration. Opposition to the bridge was beginning to form on both sides of Long Island Sound. In addition, plans to turn the Oyster Bay area into a bird sanctuary and a protected park made working on the highway harder, as building on such protected places is forbidden by law. Faced with growing opposition, Governor Rockefeller canceled the plans for the bridge on June 20, 1973, nine years after the first proposal by Moses.[12]

.... and then more recently

21st century

> In January 2008, this idea was revived when developer Vincent Polimeni proposed building a privately financed, tolled tunnel between Oyster Bay on Long Island and Rye in Westchester County, featuring two tubes carrying three lanes of traffic each and a third tube for maintenance and emergency access. The route would connect Route 135 (Seaford-Oyster Bay Expressway) on Long Island to Interstate 287 in Westchester County. It would cost between $12 and $16 billion[13] and would not be completed until at least 2025. The proposed tunnel would be 16 to 18 miles (26 to 29 km) long, making it the world's longest highway tunnel, longer than the Lærdal Tunnel in Norway.[14] A hearing on this proposal was held in Syosset on January 24, 2008.[15]

During his second term, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo also proposed a tunnel connecting NY 135 to Rye. This is also a highway in two tubes and a third tube for maintenance. After a polarizing debate, the NYSDOT released a statement saying the tunnel would not be moving forward at this time.[16]

....

ultimately, many people argue against it. It's been proposed over and over in several forms, but nobody wants it, but the opposition is too strong. Fuck dude... if in the 50's we couldn't get people to be alright with making a connection from Route 135 in Oyster bay through the rest of the north shore and across to Rye, we sure as hell ain't going to do it easily any time soon with way more people living through the possible path now.

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j88mso0 wrote

That sucks a ton of baloney bricks. Why in the world would people oppose it? Who cares about what they think? Have any of them thought of the loads of traffic that would probably decrease going through half of NYC just to get to NJ? If people could just go through from Connecticut, go through Long Island, go over the Verrazzano bridge, through Staten Island, it probably would save a lot of time then going through I-95, I-87, or Bronx River Parkway just to end up in the Bronx and cross the only two bridges from Bronx to Queens (which gets traffic at times), or go to Manhattan which has traffic, taking the FDR and going over the Manhattan or Brooklyn Bridge or the tunnels.

More people going through Long Island would probably mean a lot more less traffic for all the other roads/bridges in the city, I would at least hope.

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Pinuzzo t1_j89ml2e wrote

Any Oyster Bay - Stamford connection would be too expensive to build and maintain and would be too close to the existing Bronx-Queens bridges to have that big of an impact in reducing vehicle-miles traveled

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j8a93hi wrote

Sure it would be too expensive, but to close to existing Bronx-Queens bridges? Calverton is no where near the two only bridges, which gets a lot of traffic and takes up time for those trying to get into Queens easier. It would definitely have a big if an impact if cars can just get off I-95 before going into southern Westchester, besides taking up less time to travel since you'll have less traffic on the other two bridges now that the tunnel exists. Also won't have to go through all of that just to get to Queens, but instead just take the LIE to the other highways that would take you to the Verrazzano

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Pinuzzo t1_j8aear7 wrote

Well the tunnel proposal was to extend NY135 from Oyster Bay to the I287 in Port Chester, nowhere near Calverton, NY and also not even connected to CT.

Southbound traffic from I95 from CT to NJ through Queens/Long Island is unlikely to relieve much congestion for anyone since all the LIE/BQE/Belt Pkwy is already near capacity anyway.

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rick6787 t1_j88fhpk wrote

>Why is there no highway tunnel/bridge from Long Island to Connecticut or somewhere in Westchester?

Are you actually asking for a history lesson?

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j88mmto wrote

Yes, but someone has told me. Kind of sucks though.

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rick6787 t1_j88nez4 wrote

Disagree. Long island does not need any more density. And it's a great thing to have made oyster bay a wildlife refuge.

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chargeorge t1_j88vs54 wrote

I mean I have no comments on the specific infrastructure, but yea Long Island needs a ton more density.

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j88nrep wrote

Density? Better traffic flow is what matters to me, and thats something NYC doesn't always have, for the most part. I would rather we try to build somewhere else instead of Oyster Bay.

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rick6787 t1_j88pndx wrote

When you increase access to a place, you increase population. What is it you're trying to accomplish with a long island sound bridge/tunnel?

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j88qls8 wrote

Less traffic on I-95 mainly through the Cross Bronx expressway, on the Whitestone, the Throgs Neck Bridge, any bridge/tunnel going Manhattan to Queens/Brooklyn, I don't think it will make a big difference in population from a new tunnel, since everyone's mainly just passing through. It would save time for people from Northeastern states above us from having to go through the Bronx and Manhattan, to get to Queens/Brooklyn, just to get to NJ on the most left side. Do that, and traffic flow should be a bit if not a lot better for New Yorkers.

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rick6787 t1_j88tmna wrote

You think building an entirely new route is cheaper/simpler/more feasible than just expanding I95, if that's your goal?

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j8a9r6h wrote

Of course not, but say that you expand I-95, the Throgs Neck and Whitestone will still have just more traffic, and the GWB? Well skip that, just the bridges and tunnels connecting from Manhattan to Queens/Brooklyn would definitely receive less traffic from Connecticut/Northern Westchester

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EquivalentBarracuda4 t1_j88zw7y wrote

Have you heard about the term “induced demand”?

Less traffic -> motivates new development -> more population -> more traffic.

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j8a7gqv wrote

Well, I've heard of new roads/bridges being opened to lessen traffic on an existing road way or so, and so say that they did build a tunnel on LI. Would people really care to live there now if the tunnel is completed? They could've been wanted to live there, why now with a tunnel?

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EquivalentBarracuda4 t1_j8a7v5a wrote

Please read how induced demand works. There are plenty of videos on YouTube about this topic. Adding more lanes, bridges, etc solves traffic only on the near term. In the long term it will never work.

Ask yourself: how come that we still have traffic with those fancy multi lane highways? How come adding more lanes did not solve the traffic?

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j8abn4i wrote

It does work long term? Extra lanes doesn't do much, no, but more roadways/bridges have shown to reduce traffic, depending on where traffic really wants to go. Adding more lanes didn't do much because everyone's going that same way. Add another road, you'll have less people going that way. I've played Cities Skylines (which doesn't mean much), but adding more lanes does change a bit, but definitely not enough at all. For example, have one highway in a city for people to get in and out. You'll get traffic.

Adding a lane won't change anything because it will just allow more cars to fill in, but still traffic. Add another highway on the city's border going a bit of a different direction of that highway, but still having a similar route, more cars that are closer to that roadway, or people living near said roadway, are more likely to go on that route, reducing traffic on the other highway.

Say that you live on LI, now you have to drive all the way down through NYC, to get to Connecticut, instead of simply just going to Connecticut. Add an extra lane on the bridges, it won't change much, you're still going to add on to the rest of the cars on the road. Tunnel? Avoid those bridges, won't even need an extra lane, because you're one less car on the road.

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TeamMisha t1_j88mmvl wrote

No one wants tunnel portals and highway approaches in their backyard. Northern Long Island has some of the wealthiest areas in the country with vocal opposition. They understandably don't wanna transfer congestion on I-95 in the Bronx to near their towns instead.

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j88n0jy wrote

I see, but that's not understandable for those who live in the Bronx and Manhattan that has to deal with said congestion now, and the bridges as well.

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pompcaldor t1_j896u1i wrote

> I thought the Penn Station access development was recent, not many years ago. I question why did it take so long?

Because Penn Station is at capacity, and the only way to add new trains is to divert existing ones. Now that East Side Access (Grand Central Madison) is open, you can divert them there.

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Best_Line6674 OP t1_j8a713c wrote

I see, well will ESA actually connect with the Bronx?

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ECK-2188 t1_j88ez7i wrote

One thing is as certain as seeing taxes out of your check:

Outer boroughs will always be left out in the cold.

No surprises.

3