> Abbott's case against DuPont is one of thousands in multidistrict litigation (MDL) consolidated in Ohio. The lawsuits claim that the company poisoned drinking water by discharging the chemical PFOA into waterways from its plant in Parkersburg, West Virginia.

Excellent now ban the chemicals since it’s been shown in court to be the cause and fine to the point of breaking these companies for purposefully poisoning our water.

Honestly a ban will do nothing, as they will only ban a specific chemical compound and the manufacturer would just slightly modify it and call it new. They've been doing this exact thing for decades.

Wait let's not get crazy here. DuPont brings in a lot of revenue and they create jobs. I mean what's the big deal anyways. This chemical is now in everyone's drinking water?

Small price to pay for job creation I say.

Also while we're at it, we need Tort law reform. It is just ludicrous that this corporation was even liable, more so that they have to pay a dime.

Who do these "victims" think they are? They don't create jobs. They're worth peanuts to the economy.

You say cancer, I say we increase the price of cancer treatments. Because, frankly, you should only live if you can afford it.

A broad ban off all chemicals considered PFOA and all similar chemicals? The language is the key. Problem is DuPont would probably get to pic the language. Hence, why we don’t have a democracy anymore.

I really hope this is satire. Otherwise the sociopath of the day just showed up.

It's too late. This shit is everywhere now. You can ban it but it's just not going to do anything.

https://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20220815/rainwater-unsafe-to-drink-forever-chemicals-study

I really wish we could do something, but with the way things stand in the US. It's just going to get worse.

Hard to tell nowadays isn't it?

Nah this is American freedom man. Everyone that's well off. Loves it

We know it’s everywhere. That doesn’t mean there should be no repercussions for those responsible.

Only when people don’t use the international symbol for satire on this site.

Anyone keeping tally? I mean, what corporation has contaminated the world population more than DuPont? Union Carbide? Monsanto? the list goes on from mining companies, to oil conglomerates to pharmaceuticals...

Every morning two bald eagles appear on my bedside. One to bring me coffee the other my slippers. Freeeeeeeeeeedoooooooooooom!

Why is Teflon even legal to produce in the quantities it is? Whereas there may be legitimate reasons to continue to manufacture the product there’s no reason, minus greed, to produce it in the quantity we do, perhaps we can just learn to scrub our fucking dishes again and leave Teflon to be used for applications that aren’t merely a matter of convenience?

The double standards are disgusting, Teflon is actively fucking up the environment but because it’s DuPont, just pay a few bucks and carry on.

DDT on the other hand was forced to go the way of the dodo based on poor science and the subsequent public outcry from it, similar to Teflon much of the problem stemmed from wild overuse, though DDT comparatively was still much less problematic, so instead of reigning in the matter reasonably they just banned the shit in spite of having potential to save millions of lives if used correctly.

And just to be clear, I’m not claiming DDT should be considered safe, sadly though most of what people think they know about it is based on erroneous information. DDT held the promise of preventing untold amount of Malaria before other options existed and to this day it could still turn out to the the most effective means to diminish a major outbreak.

There’s also Zika but because of the time I’ve spent in traditional malaria hotspots it’s the illness I immediately think about in regards to DDT.

[removed]

Better than the amount getting even larger isn't it?

I really wish I shared your optimism.

It’s not just used for Teflon. It’s used for pretty much all waterproofed items you have. Shoes, clothing, stain prevention sprays, lens coatings, fire fighting foam. A bunch of stuff. It should all be outlawed. Teflon is probably the minority of peas use now a days.

[removed]

[removed]

[removed]

That's pretty much what they did with that spice stuff everyone was smoking for a while. Changed the compound so much they started reacting like they were smoking bath salts if they didn't end up in the hospital. So yeah, sounds like exactly what a company like this would do

Is that a good argument for allowing it to continue?

What I would be making is an argument for changing the system entirely.

Do you actually think this is new? Or that DuPont didn't know? Do you think that their lawyers didn't say sales > liability cost? Or that they are one of the big proponents of tort law reform? Do you know what else is out there that you'll find out about decades from now that they know about already?

But at any rate yeah let's pass some pissant regulation and keep at it every time something harmful is discovered. Surely the problem will fix itself, if anything it'll make the voters happy.

[deleted]

Yeah they should pay all the rest of us now, since we can’t escape it.

Yes and I'd go even farther and have independent investigators review everything including privileged communications to see what else needs addressed.

[removed]

[removed]

PFAS constituents have been detected in the hydrosphere, with detections in the Himalayan plateau above current EPA RSLs.

Use of PFAS in manufacturing has been decreasing since the early 2000s, but legacy contamination of PFAS is an issue, and current disposal methods are "learning as they go" so to speak.

We will be dealing with this class of compounds for a long time, and as with early contaminants in the 80s/90s (TCE, VOCs) we will likely see revised health advisory limits as more research is conducted into their lifetime exposure limits. Basically, these are the "hot" new containment and they are hard to degrade, we will be dealing with them for a long time.

> What I would be making is an argument for changing the system entirely.

This is so vague so as not to mean anything. Would you mind expanding on what you mean here?

Regulation could be written so as to encompass all of those PFAS-like compounds rather than playing whack-a-mole with specific formulas.

>Regulation could be written so as to encompass all of those PFAS-like compounds rather than playing whack-a-mole with specific formulas.

Right. Because this has absolutely worked so far.

>This is so vague so as not to mean anything. Would you mind expanding on what you mean here?

Seriously? Nothing, you can ignore that. Just keep voting blue. Neo liberalism will fix this.

Decent argument for drugs, not for poisoning water.

[removed]

That kinda ruins the joke though. Unless your comment includes some sick hyperbole with your sarcasm like “kill jews” or some violent shit than /s shouldn’t be necessary.

>Right. Because this has absolutely worked so far.

I wasn't aware one had been written and passed. Can you link me to it?

>Seriously? Nothing, you can ignore that. Just keep voting blue. Neo liberalism will fix this.

Classic. When asked to get specific you have nothing. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously until you can actually explain what you mean. Just keep suggesting "changing the system". That will fix it.

I'm a socialist. Would you like a link?

>I wasn't aware one had been written and passed. Can you link me to it?

This is freely available on the internet. There has not been one for pfas but it is irrelevant. Any shit attorney can tell you how to sidestep it, also with the neutering of the administrative state, regulations are even more worthless nowadays.

Why would it need to get to that extreme? Being sarcastic about anything is more difficult for people to get in text form because there is no voice manipulation to explain it.

A person agreeing with a corporation isn’t fantasy either. What group of people decided to give them more rights than the actual humans of this country? Corporations have been treated more like people and with more respect than the black community in this country. Being a sociopath isn’t cute.

>There has not been one for pfas but it is irrelevant. Any shit attorney can tell you how to sidestep it

By making a slightly different formula? Yeah, I preemptively addressed this argument by suggesting a reg to "encompass all PFAS-like compounds rather than playing whack-a-mole".

Or did you mean something else?

>also with the neutering of the administrative state, regulations are even more worthless nowadays.

I agree that a weak administrative state isn't good. What I'm arguing for is better regs and I suppose by extension as a neccessary prerequisite, better government.

Edited.

Free doom?

>By making a slightly different formula? Yeah, I preemptively addressed this argument by suggesting a reg to "encompass all PFAS-like compounds rather than playing whack-a-mole".

I mean how far would it go? I think now we're entering into a pretty interesting technical argument.

I'm not going to be a donkey and say that what you wrote is the regulation and stick to it to the death. But I want to point out the word like. Are there any derivatives? Are they useful and not harmful? What if they change the compound to something useful and harmless?

With the useful and harmless, it would take generations to even know right? Would regulations such as those create issues with development such as a new vaccine, or would that be granted just for emergencies?

How far would the regulation go and how much would it affect? Regulations written broadly do not really survive the courts. That's part of the problem there by the way.

Also enforcement... If sales = 1 billion and liability = 100 million. Which CEO would say no to that? There should be much much much steeper penalties involved. Not just a game of legal delay until they die because it's a cheaper bill. Yes, that's actually a legal strategy. Regulators should be able to just shut them down.

But then here we are with DuPont that holds a stranglehold on many products. Shut them down and then no more useful products and we start having exponential effects.

Just a side note, I am a socialist and an attorney too, I'm not simping for this corporation. If anything the opposite, but we are limited to the discussion with the way things are right now, sadly. Because while you and I can imagine a better future and how to get there (whether different or not) until it at least begins we're stuck with this.

Yes, but can your Casio watch run it?

[removed]

We will all die just so Dupont and other companies can continue to profit off this poison

I’d love to know the concentration or dose needed to increase the risk…. Regardless of whether no amount is safe…. I mean how many hundreds of feet of Teflon thread seal tape have I used in my life alone. It would be nice to know an alternative to even that and what a dangerous amount actually is if it’s this bad… let’s just say I’m washing my hands with strong stuff after I use it. But it’s in so many other things… they were putting maybe still are into snowboard wax I used during my racing years… used that all the time…. Smoking hot wax everywhere

The items themselves are probably not dangerous at all, assuming you don't burn the items. But the liquid used to dip them into sure is. And they have been dumping that used liquids in pits and waterways for 75 years. And for the last 10 years they have been incinerating it near kentucky, which unfortunately does not change the chemical composition, it just makes it an aerosol. Which then comes down as rain all around the world. Affecting all the water supplies, inundating the crops being grown, and the people and animals. Bioaccumulating in greater and greater concentrations since the human body has no way to get rid of it once it is absorbed. So buying pfas dipped products is not itself harmful, but it almost assuredly is putting money into the pocket of a polluting company that is destroying the world.

https://cen.acs.org/environment/persistent-pollutants/Incincerators-spread-break-down-PFAS/98/web/2020/04

[removed]

Is “$40 mln” a normal way to write that out? My brain reads it as “forty dollar miln.”

I’m used to something like $40M

Also, PFOAs and their derivatives are literally everywhere, not the degraded state but on everything. Phone screens, fast food wrappers, clothing, teflon, carpet, floor treatments. If it says stain, water, or mildew resistant, its PFOA or similar

[removed]

Yeah some people really really need it.

I’m from that area, they banned C8 and basically relabeled it Gen-X.

About 20 years ago they offered residence $400 for a “simple” blood test but they also signed a waiver those that took the money couldnt sue.

Of course preying on a community with low income many participated, the fucked up thing is they allowed children to participate and the paperwork included they couldn’t sue either so basically parents signed their life/decision away for a measly $400.

They’ll ban it and just keep coming out with something new that takes years to research.

Reverse osmosis helps, one water company asked DuPont to pay for the city to have a RO installed at their local water plant and they said no and offered carbon filtration instead which literally does nothing for the new gen-x.

At the very least they should pay up to redo all public water works to RO or offer some kind of credit back to residence that have individual systems installed in their homes.

DuPont/Chemours can get fucked.

With that and leaving on a positive note, donating blood/plasma has shown to reduce the levels of forever chemicals found in one’s body. Of course you’ll just pass it onto someone else who needs it but that’s probably not a concern obviously for the person needing a transfusion.

r/castiron if you’re looking for alternatives. It’s all I cook on.