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PeteButtiCIAg t1_ivk5glt wrote

Reply to comment by Rage_Like_Nic_Cage in Reports of alleged voter intimidation and interference in NC ahead of Election Day by Zen1

Democracy is directly opposed to concentrated power. Why would the people at the top oppose backsliding?

Edit: and more importantly, why are you expecting them to?

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mcs_987654321 t1_ivlp1fw wrote

But even then, the incentives in a functional democracy are actually aligned to avoid collapse, if only because you have enough varying interests within the “concentrated power” crowd that refuse to concede their chance to have a turn at the helm.

Of course if you let enough nihilists who genuinely don’t give a shit either way accumulate enough money, and erode the foundational structures that keep the democratic process on track…yeah, things go downhill pretty fast.

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PeteButtiCIAg t1_ivlp96l wrote

What are you citing here? Because I'm getting strong "invisible hand" vibes.

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mcs_987654321 t1_ivltu5e wrote

Oh, a super mish mash of classical and modern political theory, probably with some unconscious influence of sub-game economics thrown in… but definitely NOT some kind of Adam Smith “it’ll all work out in the end” blue sky thinking.

But yeah: plenty of supporting evidence - even given the natural tendency for wealth and power to accrue/compound - that democracies can and do hold up pretty well, so long as you have: 1) some level of variation and competition within the 0.01% and 2) a somewhat functional rules-based system that doesn’t have obvious forum shopping workarounds.

There’s also probably a 3) in the mix that involves the relationship between political/financial and military power, but that’s outside my wheelhouse and has its own particular dynamics and forces.

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PeteButtiCIAg t1_ivlv9zu wrote

Those are some pretty big caveats. The reason I asked is because I was troubled by the cornerstone of "giving a shit". I'm honestly even more troubled now, haha. I've been looking at what we can expect post QE, especially as sovereign debt crises seem to be popping up everywhere. I can see opposed interests continuing (to some extent), but I'm not sure we have models for this level of accumulation. What are the examples?

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mcs_987654321 t1_ivm28zb wrote

Historical examples don’t work all that well as proxies, just bc of the amount of confounding factors and unique tensions inherent to a particular time/place…but feel like the British parliamentary system starting from the Carolean era is a pretty solid example.

Crazy concentrations of power and wealth, all kinds of evil fuckery (many having to do with colonial endeavours), but also a fairly stable country that has mostly rolled with the punches, all things considered.

Of course the UK is also currently shitting the bed, so that’s not exactly encouraging…but yeah: “worst option except all the other ones”.

Still think that democracy is remarkably durable, but also agree that we’re experiencing pretty extreme stresses/conditions, and that structurally flawed systems are going to collapse.

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clock1058 t1_ivscmvr wrote

>Of course if you let enough nihilists

i dont think u understand what nihilism means

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