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waitforsigns64 t1_iucmnyn wrote

Grew up in Richmond fro 60s to 80s. Lived in Henrico which was one of the original white flight areas after Richmond integrated. I went to school and college with the casual racists like Young and his blackface. My high school played Dixie as our school song and waved a rebel flag. I never thought I would see this day. I cried tears of joy when they took Lee down. Monument avenue now does not make me cringe.

It's about time.

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worthing0101 t1_iue63jk wrote

I lived in Richmond from the 70s to the 90s and experienced some of the same. (Lived in Lakeside then Glen Allen) I remember having to visit the monuments and do book reports on them in school. It brings me great joy that these statues are finally gone.

It also makes me laugh that the only statue left is the statue of Arthur Ashe .

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waitforsigns64 t1_iuhgp9w wrote

Yes! I love Arthur being there too! I remember it was a big deal when that statue was placed.

Wonder what they will put in those spots. Anything? Nothing?

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Remarkable_Swim5520 t1_iue9crv wrote

Why is the removal of historic monuments a good thing?

−40

worthing0101 t1_iuedl4a wrote

If you don't already understand why we shouldn't honor men who fought to preserve slavery then nothing I say is going to help you understand.

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Remarkable_Swim5520 t1_iuem5t9 wrote

They were not fighting to preserve slavery.

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mattaw2001 t1_iuep5iq wrote

They certainly thought, campaigned, gave speeches and wrote that they were. What evidence do you have that they didn't?

For example, in his widely reported and printed cornerstone speech declaring the independence of the confederacy Alexander H. Stephens, the Confederate vice president and one of the most perceptive and brightest men in the Confederate government declared that, “Our new government is founded upon . . . its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery – subordination to the superior race – is his natural and normal condition.” Stephens denounced the northern claims (which he incorrectly attributed to Thomas Jefferson) that the “enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically.” He unabashedly asserted: “Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea.” Stephens argued that it was “insanity” to believe “that the negro is equal” or “that slavery was wrong.” He proudly predicted that the Confederate Constitution “has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution-African slavery as it exists amongst us-the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization.”

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easy_Money t1_iuenv8e wrote

Whether or not it was the primary reason they were fighting, it's still one of the reasons. Not all Nazis were fighting exclusively to exterminate the Jews either. Stop being an apologist for racist traitors.

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Malaix t1_iuccc94 wrote

Statues are more propaganda than history in most cases.

A statue of a historic person in a heroic pose with a short plaque that leaves out the uglier details of their past does more to distort history than preserve it.

Its why any authoritarian regime that is interested in banning books or ideas tend to be more than happy to erect statues everywhere.

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GoochMasterFlash t1_iud1i2c wrote

Before about the 1890s in the US there were very few monuments built to anything specifically because early Americans did not want anything to be revered above the institution of democracy. That in and of itself was people’s source of patriotism.

In order to control people during tumultuous times of social and economic strife during the 20th century the government started building tons of monuments and designating places as historical, specifically in order to push the myth of American progress and narratives of patriotism as methods of controlling the populace. Many of the monuments that you will see throughout the country were built either following the Great Depression or during the Civil Rights Movement/ Cold War era. Local places bought into this government push because of the rise of auto tourism, creating an opportunity to make a big business out of retelling history.

Of course neither the government nor people building tourist traps want anyone to remember the past for what it was, and instead would rather us exercise a highly selective memory. Monuments rarely provide any actual lessons about history, nor do they tell us the hidden truths about why they were constructed. Some of these monuments need to be torn down, but many of them would better serve society if they were given context that explains both the actual history they obscure as well as the underhanded creation of the monument. Its the only way to undo the damage that monuments do to society, especially how they separate us from the actual past by presenting us with feel-good bullshit that doesnt connect to our actual lived experiences and relationships to historical events

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lurq_king t1_iubko75 wrote

As a VA resident I say knock it down!

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immalittlepiggy t1_iuc7jqa wrote

As a TN resident, I request y’all’s services talking some sense into our state government.

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Randy_Magnum29 t1_iudtnx4 wrote

The Venn diagram of people wanting these statues to remain up, “so we don’t forget history,” and the people against teaching about the history of racism and oppression in this country is a circle.

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Kroxursox t1_iubmme9 wrote

As a richmond resident, bring it down. Put it at a battlefield, or smelt it down.

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waitforsigns64 t1_iudju8u wrote

Maybe a museum. We can't forget what we did.

0

Kroxursox t1_iudk0rh wrote

I would have said that, but I doubt it will fit, and I'm not sure what museum in Richmond it would fit in.

I prefer to smelt it down, but a battlefield is a solid option.

We don't learn anything from a statue. We learn in museums, school, and books.

Also, its not We. I didn't do that shit.

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twitch1982 t1_iudvxmw wrote

The museum of Soviet Socialist Art in Sophia is where the Bulgarians put all thier Soviet statues, the court yard has large statues, and indoors is painting and smaller busts.

We could make one for the traitors, and put all this junk there.

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Kroxursox t1_iue2zye wrote

I'd rather not make a museum just for confederate shit that has literally no purpose. These statues were put up in tye 20th century.

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victorfiction t1_iuj1wh5 wrote

The purpose would be “this shit really happened and these people were despicable. Here they all are in one convenient museum of awful human beings.”

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Kroxursox t1_iuj20tj wrote

Yeah. I'll pass on that.

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victorfiction t1_iuj2irp wrote

Yeah well, we’ll know who to thank when the slavery/civil war deniers start gaining traction on facebook… 🤷🏻‍♂️

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Kroxursox t1_iuj2m8p wrote

I won't know cause I drop that shit years ago.

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victorfiction t1_iuj31sv wrote

Yeah but Kanye didn’t and he’s got more followers than you… that’s why it matters.

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Kroxursox t1_iuj352a wrote

Of course he has more then me, im not on the platform.

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waitforsigns64 t1_iudlo5b wrote

We as the human race. I think you qualify

Eh, museum of the confederacy grounds. Or their basement vaults.

−6

Kroxursox t1_iudlr14 wrote

So the slaves were not humans? Lol interesting take.

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waitforsigns64 t1_iudmvhc wrote

Oh come on. All humans are capable of such horrors. Haven't we proved that over history? I didn't gas Jews but I think a Holocaust museum is good for everyone. Don't you agree?

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Kroxursox t1_iudpctz wrote

That's not what you said though. In context, yes I'm pk with museums showing human history.

I'm not ok grouping all humans as being monsters because of things past humans did.

I do not think we all have that in us.

I also wouldn't lump myself in with slave owners and nazis, simply because we are all humans. Reality is not black and white.

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waitforsigns64 t1_iudquz9 wrote

I think most of us do. I'm cynical. I've seen so much shit by so many people and countries on each other and the rest of the planet. Just in easily accessible news.

Change is the work of our lifetimes.

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Kroxursox t1_iudrg5r wrote

I'm skeptical, try that over cynicism. It leads to more correct conclusions.

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WorldClassShart t1_iuf5mzu wrote

> I didn't gas Jews but I think a Holocaust museum is good for everyone.

The Holocaust museum doesn't celebrate the Holocaust, it shows the horrors of what happened.

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twitch1982 t1_iudw16f wrote

Jesus, thats a twitter level jump from what they said.

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Kroxursox t1_iue2v7l wrote

Its not really. Its just an awkward take, which I'm all about

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UncleMeat11 t1_iuefvzp wrote

It wouldn't be relevant for a museum of the confederacy. As a historical object it is relevant to understand the people who created it, not the people it depicts.

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Adequate_Lizard t1_iues6sb wrote

It's too bad we tore all those statues of what's his face so we don't know who the American Revolution was fought against.

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smarshall561 t1_iud8vlr wrote

Live in Richmond. Nobody except racists cared about the statues before and nobody misses them now that they're gone. Our monuments are the beautiful murals painted around the city with new ones going up all the time. Monument avenue was for rich assholes anyway.

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melouofs t1_iudlm6f wrote

They should never have been erected in the first place. This was a failed regime that sought to destroy this nation. They should never have been allowed to show any symbolism or anything of the sort ever again, outside of a history book. If the political leaders at the time had gone hard on the whole episode, perhaps our "leaders" today would understand that making nice with those who seek to destroy your nation doesn't work and January 6 would be handled much differently.

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upsidevalue t1_iucruca wrote

Statues of people who staged a rebellion against the United States over slavery are being taken down? That’s so un-American /s

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sistahmaryelefante t1_iufatxs wrote

My ancestors came to Virginia in the 1700's were slave owners and fought in the confederacy and I'm on board with removing these monuments. We should not glorify our past.

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Sumutherguy t1_iudcfvd wrote

A good day to be a Virginian. Took us long enough.

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TheThebanProphet t1_iue4xep wrote

Now rename US1 something other than "Jefferson Davis Memorial Highway." Thought it was pretty disgusting to see driving between Richmond and DC and hopping on to US1 to dodge the I95 jam

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red2play t1_iufs10e wrote

At most, they belong in museums. Many of the statues were put up to protest Blacks gaining access to colleges and other institutions. More importantly, taxpayers are having to pay for the maintenance of the statues, no matter what color you are.

There's no argument for keeping these statues in front of Gov't buildings, State parks, etc as everyone knows they can just be put in Museums, that way you can see them if you want, or just walk past the Museum if you don't want to see them. The Gov't is supposed to represent all persons.

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ddrober2003 t1_iuedyfl wrote

Good smelt it down, recast it as people that helped in the underground railroad or civil rights activists or the like, and then put those up in their place. Better to have some people that did good over statues of treasonous vermin and betrayed and killed their countrymen to own other humans.

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nekochanwich t1_iugr5z4 wrote

Ha ha, go shit yourselves, racists

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jethrotbartholomew t1_iubypa1 wrote

Chinook it up to SPTF and drop if off. Pretty sure they could use it for target practice.

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twinsrule t1_iudw4ul wrote

Is the Army going to rename Fort A.P. Hill?

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Comprehensive-Ad3963 t1_iuet55y wrote

Take the statues down and give them away on a first come, first served basis, or give them to one of that person's descendants.

Then someone can put it up in their yard or something.

Everyone wins.

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Karlend41 t1_iuc01fx wrote

I think he's actually more famous for making that intersection have a roundabout then for anything he did in the civil war. They are absolutely shitting on this guy's legacy.

Edit: To be clear for the angry commenters and downvoters, The legacy I'm talking about is the roundabout. A.P. Hill is better known for causing that traffic nightmare then he is for his civil war record.

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Guilty_Chemistry9337 t1_iudyk2i wrote

AP Hill's legacy was as a terrorist who murdered thousands of American service men.

His legacy deserves to be shat on.

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Karlend41 t1_iufhayl wrote

It seems I wasn't being clear, the legacy I was referring to was the roundabout. That was one of the most hated roundabouts in the country.

Edit: Just to make it clear, it was only there because of his grave and they're probably going to just turn it into a normal intersection now.

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Guilty_Chemistry9337 t1_iufip6j wrote

You were very clearly talking about AP Hill's legacy. But yeah, go ahead and weasel out of it.

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Karlend41 t1_iufl9g5 wrote

>I think he's actually more famous for making that intersection have a roundabout then for anything he did in the civil war

Yeah, that's a statement just screams respect for his legacy. Saying he's more famous for his grave fucking up traffic.

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