Opinions on consolidation of Hudson County into one city?

Submitted by Hij802 t3_zhlgjn in newjersey

If Hudson County (724K pop) were a city, it would be the 19th largest city, right below Seattle and San Francisco, and right ahead of Denver and Oklahoma City. It would be bigger than very well known historical cities like Washington DC and Boston.

Hudson County is only 46 sq mi, roughly the same size as San Francisco or Boston. In terms of area, it doesn’t even crack the top 200 largest cities.

Hudson is the 6th most densely populated county in the country at 15,692/sq mi. This would make it the 5th densest city (over 100K) in the country, only behind NYC, Paterson, San Fransisco, and Cambridge MA, and right ahead of Boston and Newark and would still remain the #6 county.

It makes sense for several reasons. For one, the entire county is basically one large urban landmass that you generally cannot tell where the municipal borders are. If you saw an overhead/skyline view of Hudson Co without knowing where it was, you’d think it was one big city. It would have a core downtown financial district (Downtown Jersey City), “artsy” neighborhoods (Washington St Hoboken), large food scenes (Bergenline Ave), industrial areas, and lots of parks.

Consolidation of municipal services would also help cut on unnecessary spending on having the same public services for each separate town in the county. Every city doesn’t need its own fire dept or police or public works. (This is relevant to all of NJ, which has 565 municipalities, costing us more money for no good reason. Let’s start with those donut hole towns like Freehold, Morristown, & Metuchen, and follow Princeton’s example!)

It can also help with unified services to make expanding public transit faster like light rail, PATH, or even an entire Hudson County subway. Also creating more county wide parks like the Hudson River Waterfront Walkway would be easier.

Also, each city can still retain its uniqueness in a way that Brooklyn has its own separate yet related identity to Manhattan. Hoboken and Jersey City would both generally retain their separate yet related identities.

Hudson County as a whole has potential to be one of the largest cities in the country, putting Hudson on the map as its own major city instead of people associating it as just an extension of NYC.

All in all, I see primarily benefits, and the main con I see to this is asking residents to slightly give up some of their power.

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Bonus

Adding Essex County?

Annexation isn’t uncommon, it’s how many cities grew to the size they are today, hell it’s why NYC is so big.

Area would now be 172/sq mi, ranking it #53, about the size of New Orleans. Pop Density would be 9,235/sq mi, ranking it #23, about the same as Bridgeport CT or Seattle. The population would be 1.6 million people, ranking it #6 nationally, between Phoenix and Philadelphia. Would absolutely establish itself as a major city separate from NYC. Kearny & Harrison feel like extensions of Newark already anyway.

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Big_Dinner3636 t1_iznofo1 wrote

As long as we still have stupid ass towns like Teterboro and Tavistock still existing, I doubt you'd ever see anything of that scale. You know how hard it was just to merge the two Princetons together?

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Hij802 OP t1_izql6nx wrote

It’s only a hypothetical. But yea I understand it’s difficult, although we ideally should be knocking 564 down to 300.

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JustSomeGuy_56 t1_iznxs5u wrote

Everyone agrees that New Jersey has too many municipalities, and all those other little towns should merge. But my little town must remain separate to preserve our unique character. And we don't want people in those other towns controlling our fate.

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css555 t1_iznf4m6 wrote

Having 565 municipalities is the biggest reason for high property taxes. Several towns have a Board of Education with paid employees...and no schools! They are too small to support their own schools, so they send their kids to schools in neighboring towns.

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Dozzi92 t1_iznn31f wrote

Branchburg is huge, 20 square miles, and sends their kids to 2.5 square mile Somerville's high school. It's a relic of a time when branchburg was just farms and it made sense, but as the state has grown, things have failed to maintain pace.

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Hij802 OP t1_izqkzsv wrote

Exactly! Merging Hudson County would save huge money. No need for all these different services with paid employees for the same jobs.

Also, we’re actually down to 564, Pine Valley (one of those golf course towns of 12 people) merged with Pine Hill this year.

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mookybelltolls t1_izq3vwg wrote

Jersey needs Independent school districts, the way the vast lands of the Mid and Southwest have. Unfortunately, NJ towns are built on patronage, which makes it impossible for anything like a school district to be politically independent.

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lost_in_life_34 t1_izoesxr wrote

people say that but before I bought in NJ i checked out NY as well and the taxes are the same

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JeromePowellAdmirer t1_izpvz5u wrote

NY suburbs are not exactly a mecca of municipal efficiency. NYC itself has way more services provided for the taxes

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_TommySalami t1_iznr7wz wrote

This needs to be done across the state, but who’s going to employ all the politicians’ cousins put out of work by it? Christie got elected on it, then gave up immediately. I’d also say racism is a factor, the little white enclaves are never going to go in. However sometimes it happens, like in South Jersey, there’s Gloucester Township which includes Laurel Springs (94% white) and Clementon (69%) and I don’t hear towns trying to secede. 541 municipalities. Brian Donohue of News 12 did a good piece on it. Like the town of Hi-Nella, which is run from a trailer by two or three people.

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Ieatzdabootyy t1_izmvmkf wrote

Always thought this, driving by Edgewater, West New York, North Bergen. Those towns are absolutely tiny there's no reason to have so many small towns.

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Hij802 OP t1_izmxiaa wrote

Guttenburg is the 20th densest city in the world, and 1st in the US, which I guess is cool but is completely unnecessary. The entire city is 4 streets wide. Absolutely pointless. I mean its four streets are literally called 68th-71st street ffs!

The only city that you can actually tell there’s a border is Hoboken, which seems to be surrounded by the Hudson Bergen Light Rail tracks.

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dualOWLS t1_izn7xop wrote

Did you know we have a Wikipedia page (albeit about Bergen county mostly). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boroughitis

I am for less municipalities and less balkanization. It makes zoning, transit, and urban planning worse and fractured. Look how long it took to get Citi bike in Hoboken/JC... for the bike lanes to even connect. The annexation can have negative consequences as well, like Toronto had after joining with the suburbs of the city but I think in the long term it's best.

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Hij802 OP t1_izn9zj9 wrote

Thing with Hudson County is that the entire county is pretty much medium-high density and won’t have any problems absorbing low density suburbs like other sprawl cities. It’s so well connected. Only Secaucus, Harrison, and Kearny are separated, but considering the PATH it’s not too bad.

We need reverse boroughitis

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dualOWLS t1_iznb87s wrote

Oh I absolutely agree! The old infrastructure that used to connect them all is still in place, well many of the old right of ways at least. One of them for instance is the Hudson-Essex Greenway which goes over to North Arlington and could feasibly connect right to the newark light rail from Jersey City, as could the HBLR to the ironbound. It is just a matter of political willpower to properly connect NJ to itself (like any good city!) by reinstating public transit within these places in order to move people around- and not just back and forth from NYC like these old lines used to.

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Hannibam86 t1_izpcdo1 wrote

I've always argued this. Hudson County should be one city. Eastern Essex can merge I to Newark (Irvington, East Orange, South Orange, Nutley, Belleville for example.) Southern Passaic can merge into Paterson (Clifton, Passaic, Totowa, Woodland Park/West Paterson, Hawthorne, Prospect Park) I'm sure there are other cities that can consolidate as well.

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extraORD1NARYmachine t1_izn1ryb wrote

Secaucus here- we have clear borders and low taxes, leave us alone.

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stickman07738 t1_iznc92w wrote

LOL, The only place in Hudson County with clear borders is Bayonne - everything else runs together.

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DavidPuddy666 t1_izo4x9t wrote

And Bayonne only has clear borders because of a highway built in the 1950s! Your average person would not be able to tell you where Secaucus ends and the industrial parts of North Bergen and Jersey City begin.

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Yzelski t1_izqaiuc wrote

Exactly. Why would you want JC's problems and higher taxes.

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Hij802 OP t1_izuzym9 wrote

Taxes would go down with consolidation. Half of our 564 municipalities are pointless and only serve to make our taxes higher than they should be.

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Yzelski t1_izv8s9q wrote

You're right. Start with the small towns, not an entire county. Donut Hole towns like Metuchen. Towns with the same name like Boonton borough and township. BTW taxes never go down, this will slow the rise.

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Hij802 OP t1_izwcprl wrote

Oh yeah I know, those should be first to go. There’s like 30+ donut hole towns, and then on top of that there’s easily another 60+ small towns that are either surrounded on 3 sides by another town or sandwiched between two large towns.

Just look at a municipality map of NJ and look around for like 5 minutes. Easily can spot like 100 towns that should be annexed by another one. The majority of them have very few residents.

This was just a hypothetical though. Even if taxes don’t go down, they will absolutely be far better utilized since municipal services will be cheaper to operate, leaving a surplus to spend on other things.

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hopopo t1_izndxhc wrote

Hudson county is not unique in this. Same can be said for the at least 15-20 mile radius of where Bergen, Passaic, and Essex counties meet.

You can leave Eglewood or Ridgewood and drive to Elizabeth or West Caldwell, and well beyond without ever leaving local streets or being able to draw a clear-cut line of where one town should end and other begin.

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Hij802 OP t1_izqksnt wrote

But all of those counties are a mix of higher density urban areas (Newark, Paterson, Fort Lee) and low density suburbs (Paramus, Ringwood, Fairfield). Hudson County is the only one that’s one large continuous high density urban landmass. It is basically the equivalent of the Bronx, Brooklyn, or Queens. There’s a reason they call it the “6th borough”

New Jersey is the densest state and all these suburbs are on top of each other. The fact you can’t tell where the borders are is an argument for consolidation of a LOT of municipalities, I can think of so many that deserve to be merged. We could easily go from 564 to at least 300.

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hopopo t1_izsrqen wrote

Bronx, Brooklyn, and Queens all have various levels of urban as well. From big high-rises and housing developments to large properties with single homes and everything in between.

Maybe only significant difference would be a number of golf clubs, hiking trails, and parks, but that is not a bad thing.

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Hij802 OP t1_izuzszn wrote

I would’ve said Manhattan but it’s nowhere near that level of high density. It’s pretty much a medium density version of Manhattan in a way, just with a bit more industry.

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Brudesandwich t1_izq4qrn wrote

Consolidation would solve so many of our problems in NJ but many residents, especially older ones, will always vote against it. Most common I've heard is because their town will lost its identity (but they always just say close to NYC) or having a smaller municipality is more properly governed and yet we are constantly one of the states with the most mismanagement.

There is absolutely no reason for majority of these small ass places to exist other than to allow for corruption. Nothing won't happen unless the residents start pushing for it and make it a priority

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Army_of_blood t1_izsiq88 wrote

99% of small towns in NJ already have no identity. Just a generic McDonalds mid-Atlantic small town. In Essex County, sure, Montclair and Glen Ridge have an identity. Wood-Ridge and Teterboro in Bergen? Not so much.

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Hij802 OP t1_izuzfp1 wrote

The only suburbs I think that actually have an identity are generally those that are historic or are college towns, meaning they existed prior to the boroughitis of the early 20th century. Ones that generally have a unique small downtown/Main Street. Freehold, Morristown, Cape May, Princeton, Montclair, etc. Cities, even small ones like New Brunswick, all tend to have an identity too.

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Hij802 OP t1_izqm17w wrote

I always find that argument funny because it’s not coming from people in cities like Newark, Atlantic City, New Brunswick, etc who actually have their own unique identities, no it’s coming from generic cookie cutter suburbanites from places like Summit or Middletown.

Luckily some towns are merging. Princeton was nearly a decade ago but Pine Valley and Pine Hill just merged this year, although Pine Valley was a golf course town.

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toughguy375 t1_izomhtp wrote

It's a good start. Bayonne to Fort Lee (at minimum) should be one city.

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badquarter t1_izoppok wrote

What is artsy about Washington Street?

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Hij802 OP t1_izqljvw wrote

Artsy definitely wasn’t the right word, but Hoboken is usually seen as the “hipster” town of NJ. In this hypothetical city, it would be the equivalent of like Greenwich Village or something like that. Washington St is just the main thoroughfare with all the shops and restaurants and whatnot.

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badquarter t1_izqnozu wrote

It is certainly not seen as a hipster town! I think you mean yuppie?

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lost_in_life_34 t1_izoeq7j wrote

if you really want it then find others who feel the same as you, begin a movement, push it on social media and maybe add it to the ballot one year or lobby the local governments or the county or the state or whomever to pass this

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Minimum-Fun1843 t1_iznls38 wrote

> Would absolutely establish itself as a major city separate from NYC

No it wouldn't

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thirstyquaker t1_izukkp7 wrote

I have been telling my friends for years about how a consolidated Hudson County would be great. Unfortunately I don't think people would vote for it, but it would be a great boon to the city.

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Waffle-Toast t1_j0hpgty wrote

Doubt it would ever happen, but I think it's a great idea. We have 564 municipalities now, and I'd love to see that number get cut in half. One of the things I genuinely dislike about this state is its lack of any major cities. We messed up about 120 years ago and fragmented all our towns and cities into a million pieces, to our detriment.

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Hij802 OP t1_j0hu0j0 wrote

I mean it does kinda suck that we don’t have any big number cities but like I said in the post places like Hudson county are kinda one big conglomerate of cities that blend into each other, so even if we did merge them they would look that much different aside from some name changes

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dsutari t1_iznvv5y wrote

My honest reaction is “Oh fuck off back to Cleveland dude…”

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