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plowfaster t1_izgr0lj wrote

Was in a similar boat, here’s some thoughts:

The prop tax is outrageous. Sure, it’s coming off of a low base number (ie cheap housing stock) but still…. Also, there is no good news in sight. Many people left, many businesses left, the property tax cannot help but rise

The water utility rate is astronomical. Really sorry down with a spreadsheet and crunch the numbers. I live in seacoast NH and my water bill is basically nothing (maybe a few hundred?). Berlin is like 5 to 10x what you’re used to. I haven’t had it sufficiently explained to me just what the deal is, but REALLY do your diligence

Much of the housing stock is in disrepair. A cheap house or an expensive house both have the same cost to reshingle the roof or put a new water heater in. The costs don’t change because the purchase price was low. Many houses are effectively scrap, the cost to properly fix up is more than the property is worth. Be smart and honest about your initial investment and how much you’d need to put in it

The local environment is not suitable for children. You may disagree but I was not able to imagine sending my kids to the local school. It’s not bad per se but it isn’t going to be suitable for high iq or ambitious students. There, I said it

It is shockingly poor. Crime is very low (anyone not from NH laughs at us when we discuss “crime”) but tawdriness and a sort of pervasive hopelessness abounds. Many “important community figures” are the people running the rehab support group, not the small business association. Many renters are on some form of government assistance

Having said THAT, it’s next to snow mobile trails, not far from some solid hiking and skiing and overall a “B+” outdoor destination for “D-“ prices. It is very possible you’re buying into The Next Big Thing (TM)

Also, the scale is nice. If you have big ideas you realistically could matter there, whereas a Manchester or Dover you’re just another dude. There’s opportunity, I think, for a certain sort of go-getter

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boldolive t1_izguu7i wrote

Great post. Depending on your perspective, a downside to all those trails is they’re packed with ATVs and snowmobiles. Even the sidewalks are opened up for snowmobiles in the winter. For me, that’s a huge no fuckin way.

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IRLootHoore t1_izh5p0f wrote

Walking sucks BALLS in the winter because of that, nevermind the shitty snow removal everywhere else. There's a street half berlin, half Gorham, right down the middle, guess which sides cleaner.

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Many-Day8308 t1_izeuk16 wrote

It gets very cold there. There’s a bowling alley, Walmart, TSC and a huge car dealership. It’s on a river and very close to White Mountains National Park. If you are cold hardy and prefer outdoor hobbies it could be a gem.

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RedLeafRoy OP t1_izez1se wrote

thanks. sounds like it has everything I need

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Mynewadventures t1_izf57dr wrote

Don't fish in that river he mentions. The paper mills destroyed it many decades ago.

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ThunderTrundle t1_izfx8m8 wrote

It’s been cleared up for years now. You can google androscoggin fishing and there’s tons of info on the efforts.

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AlfoBootidir t1_izh6xz3 wrote

Only above a certain point. Fishing in the city I found to be very gross. Fishing it in Milan to Errol is fine tho

3

WhoWhatWhereWhenHowY t1_izelwfy wrote

Good ol' supply demand. Based off census data in1970 Berlin had a population of 15000. Today it's 10000. That means a whole lot of surplus housing.

The hard part is when housing demand drops like that, in order to maintain the same services the tax rate goes up as property values drop.

Cheap property also means not many want to drop 50k on renovations when they may only add 25k worth of value. This leads to things beginning to look a bit old.

I grew up in Coos. I loved it up there but it is remote. And cold. Very cold.

If you enjoy the area and want to buy be VERY cautious about renting. You can easily get burned by a tenant and they can just move on to the next landlord because housing is a lot more plentiful.

If you like cheap housing though and can work remote then it's not a bad option. Just do some due diligence and you will be good.

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donkeyduplex t1_izeonwa wrote

Do you like outdoorsy stuff? Do you want to use a Quad or snowmobile as a secondary vehicle and live amoung those who do?

On the unsavory side, how do you feel about heroin? Is Wal mart the only shopping you need?

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irr1449 t1_izf3nor wrote

I live very close to Berlin and we do a lot of our shopping at the Walmart there. I’ve lived all over NH and when they say Berlin is “poor” they really mean it. Sections of the city are literally crumbling. What’s a 50k house when it needs more than that in repairs? Predictably the schools struggle because of the way we tie funding to property values. There is quite a bit of “blight” that just makes it not a hugely “desirable”place to live. I wouldn’t buy there with hopes of making some great real estate investment.

Having said all that, it can still be a great place to live because it is so affordable. Certain areas and the outskirts of town are not bad. It’s close to a lot of hiking, skiing, snowmobiling, and the ATV park. Shopping (mostly Walmart, but it’s a nice Walmart) is accessible. I just don’t see it gentrifying like other areas of NH have over the last 30 years. It has a very large low income population that have no where else to go because of Berlin’s remoteness.

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AMC4x4 t1_izhr82p wrote

It's odd how some areas of the state just seem lost in time for decades while others progress. My dad and I went through some of the places we lived 40 years ago in the whole Unity/Goshen/Acworth area and it just seemed like it really hasn't changed in 40 years. Lots of really poor areas that will likely never see any kind of investment re: real estate. Same kind of low income population with nowhere to go, but local businesses in Claremont, Newport and maybe Charlestown are likely close enough to commute.

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AlfoBootidir t1_izh6nfx wrote

Lord the streets are so fucking bad that’s why there’s 5 thriving mechanic businesses lmao

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AdElegant6054 t1_izf5jzn wrote

If you plan to work 100% online, I'd recommend looking into your broadband options first.

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akmjolnir t1_izfdun7 wrote

There's no Comcast/Xfinity footprint there, so whether you like them or not, it's one less option.

Looks like Fidium isn't up there either.

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TheSingulatarianII t1_izhwvg3 wrote

My Grandmother had cable TV in the 70s in Gorham. There must be some sort of infrastructure from that.

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Sufficient-Voice-210 t1_izes1bd wrote

As someone who has looked into moving there it gets a bad rap because it’s an old mill town that lost its identity when the mills left. The town has potential for revitalization if people give it a chance. Berlin is in a hard area to live as it is very cold and snowy it takes a hardy person to live there

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italiantique t1_izfro1b wrote

I moved here three years ago. I am glad I moved here. I love hiking/etc and I am not someone who needs two dozen restaurants to choose from. (No hate to ppl who need that, I’ve just never been a city person.) As I always tell people, even the “bad” parts of NH are pretty great. I bought a super cheap house in one of the nicer neighborhoods, never had even an inkling of crimes/drugs/feeling unsafe. You’ll probably want to avoid the lower east side of the river. From what I’ve heard there is more police activity in that area. Feel free to DM me.

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RedLeafRoy OP t1_izfsn98 wrote

Thank you so much for the info and DM offer. It might be better to talk there about some things.

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Szablog t1_izeshpb wrote

Some Canadian nonprofit is allegedly planning to make Berlin a stop on a night train between Montreal and Portland/Boston. Risky investment rn but could pay off.

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Samiann1899 t1_izfd272 wrote

Can you link me to this? This would be great but I haven’t heard anything about it

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RedLeafRoy OP t1_izezcf4 wrote

Thank you. High quality comment there. I will look into it.

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Crusty_Shart t1_izeyr82 wrote

Can you provide more info on this? I’m actually very intrigued.

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Szablog t1_izfdjv7 wrote

I heard it from a friend who is an attorney in Berlin--I don't know her source. A quick Google doesn't return any more detail, unfortunately.

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AlfoBootidir t1_izh7c0h wrote

There’s always something in rumor that will save the shithole. Last it was the bio mill or something. Before that it was a casino. A railway would be really cool, more likely improve things, and is more plausible considering Berlin is mostly bastardized French people tho so I’ll give yo that

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[deleted] t1_izhss42 wrote

Honestly, if by some miracle they pulled that off, and Les Otten actually managed to reopen the Balsams (with these interest rates???), that could probably save the town. God knows the more nationalist Quebecois would go out of their way to visit the most French part of New England, even if it’s ghetto.

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AlfoBootidir t1_izirfn5 wrote

I miss the balsams. The view is one of the best in nh

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Samiann1899 t1_izfcwnn wrote

Bred, born, and raised in Berlin. Family still there so I’m always returning from the southern part of the state to visit. Berlin can be what you make it. The locals do not particularly like outsiders. It is a POOR area with not many things to do. Inflation is hitting Berlin just like everywhere else. But there’s good to it just like every other place in the world that has good and bad. If you have questions you can DM me

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AlfoBootidir t1_izfykkg wrote

If you like nothing but the outdoors, it’s fine (also born and raised in Berlin) but as a young person it fucking sucks. No good job opportunities, the schooling was far worse than southern nh (at least it was 10 years ago), and there’s nothing to do unless you’re a hick or a junkie, basically. I remember the days we would all drive a fucking hour and a half to see a movie in theaters.

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billcurl t1_izgpdr2 wrote

don't forget Berlin is one of the coldest spots in the country

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AlfoBootidir t1_izh21xz wrote

Anywhere above the notch is a different animal. In Dummer I came across one of those trees that exploded bc it got cold so fast the water internally expanded while freezing. I know bc splinters impaled the ground like shrapnel.

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-Codfish_Joe t1_izegijn wrote

I don't know where you are, OP, but drive through Berlin sometime.

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RedLeafRoy OP t1_izehfxo wrote

I've driven through many times. Some have stated you don't want to live there sans explanation.

As one of stated here, years ago there was the stench of the paper mill. But I think that's gone now.

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CheliceraeJones t1_izejp8y wrote

It has one of the highest property tax rates in the state and one of the worst school districts in the state.

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nullcompany t1_izel3eh wrote

True, but it's a 10 minute drive to Vermont, 20 minutes to Lebanon, and even Newport next to it on the east side.

edit: ok, my Claremont joke fell flat. i deserve it

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New_Sun6390 t1_izen40y wrote

Um, no. Berlin's is near none of those places, but Claremont is.

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Mu5tBTru3Redd1t t1_izgdn37 wrote

Triple check your internet access. Seriously. Don’t just search if a provider services an area. Call with exact address as if attempting to connect. And ask for a speed test. If you work from home, super important ;) (same if you rely on cellular connection )

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BothCourage9285 t1_izet6oq wrote

It's been a dying town for some time now. The prison may have actually helped some.

My grandmother used to live there back in the 80s and we would visit regularly when I was a kid and it was pretty rough back then. All the houses on her street were abandoned and about half burned out and boarded up. It got worse in the 90s, but think it's actually on an uptrend now. Drove thru last year and it was way cleaner and busier than I remember.

Maybe rent and see before buying. Real estate is on the way down in the northern New England so you'll probably find better deals next year.

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RedLeafRoy OP t1_izez6ve wrote

thank you. Very valuable info. If it is on the uptrend then now could be the time to buy

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ThunderTrundle t1_izfwqni wrote

I spent a lot of time there in the 90s and 2000s. It’s a beautiful area but it’s very small and everyone knows everyone.

Not a good or bad thing, but the population is ridiculously of French Canadian descent.

I personally think it’s a great time to buy property up there as I’ve seen a lot more people moving in the past, but don’t expect it to be an investment property.

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AlfoBootidir t1_izfxde0 wrote

If the only thing you like is the woods it’s fine. If not prepare for heroin or old lady stuff to be the only activities around. Also nearly all restaurants close by 8. Movie theater? Yea you’re gonna have to drive to Conway or bethel for that.

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FuhWyPeepo t1_izgzdrq wrote

If you had to be in northern NH I'd shoot for Littleton if you could afford. Much more vibrant town.

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Ninja0978 t1_izfecdd wrote

Buy some land in berlin instead 😎10-15 years youll prob. 4x yoyr $ when people get tired of north conway and lincoln being so packed theyll go further north. I watched it happen with winnepesaukee to lincoln from childhood. It was WAY less packed in the white mountains 20 years ago. My prediction is theyll keep going north

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occasional_cynic t1_izg6cqk wrote

> I watched it happen with winnepesaukee to lincoln

Lincoln booming has nothing to do with Winnipesaukee. It's due to its two hour proximity to Boston, proliferation of local restaurants combined with a central location to hiking, and most particularly skiing at Loon.

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Ninja0978 t1_izg6yfl wrote

What i was getting at is lincoln is now as crowded as winnepesaukee was in the 90s- 2000s and still is. But yes all those other factors play a part too.

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RedLeafRoy OP t1_izfsxfb wrote

thank you. I'm no real estate whiz but thought the same.

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Ninja0978 t1_izftiis wrote

Im no expert either. I just bought my first house. But seeing the trends before my eyes makes sense

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schillerstone t1_izee9so wrote

Not sure about Berlin but most small towns have nothing going on no services. This is the price we pay to keep nature in tact and the skies dark at night to reveal the milky way.

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veed_vacker t1_izgmgz4 wrote

Buy up property, rent out to avant guard artists create a small restaurant scene, eventually gentrification happens, you can sell off then. That is what brattleboro area is doing.

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RedLeafRoy OP t1_izgs5kr wrote

awesome. I'm ordering a beret and a sax on Amazon right now

joking aside I think it could happen

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IRLootHoore t1_izh6v82 wrote

It's where the dad (Jack) from the shining is from, artist written all over it.

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AMC4x4 t1_izhqfml wrote

Claremont is jealous that Brattleboro saved its Latchis.

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Stunning_Ad9784 t1_izep780 wrote

Berlin is still a biomass mill town, that can mean heavy truck traffic and slight odor on bad days. Had a relative go to college there and visited them for a weekend. Needless to say it's an interesting mix of rundown poor to working lower middle class. After first year she was there downstairs neighbor shot himself out of depression. ( he lived) but drug use at the time was high in the area. Visit it before you really buy anything. Towns can clean up, and places can turn around. Cheap market though.

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RedLeafRoy OP t1_izg02g5 wrote

Do you mean the biomass power plant? And what does that smell like? Similar to a wood stove?

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AlfoBootidir t1_izh7uhh wrote

I don’t feel it’s as dangerous as people claim but the neighbor shooting himself is definitely more of what you’re in for as opposed to being mugged in the street or something. Even in on the East Side. I think it’s like Delphi Indiana in that if someone were to commit a random brutal act of violence, all eyes would be on it bc everyone does know everyone.

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kberson t1_izekkj9 wrote

The number one rule in real estate: location, location, location. It’s a stone’s throw from Berlin to Canada, and outside of Berlin, there’s not much else there. Anything to do is long drive, even to the highway.

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joostadood526 t1_izefjy5 wrote

You'll drive 20 to 30 mins to get anywhere. Gas station, grocer, restaurant, mechanic. Anything, 20 mins away.

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Sufficient-Voice-210 t1_izejj7n wrote

Shit I’d prefer that

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[deleted] t1_izejwon wrote

[deleted]

0

Sufficient-Voice-210 t1_izekdwg wrote

Just enjoy being remote

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[deleted] t1_izeq3gt wrote

[deleted]

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Sufficient-Voice-210 t1_izer206 wrote

I lived in a small town and now live in another with the same situation and I lived it. I know Berlin as my wife’s family is from there and we’ve talked about moving there it’s not that extreme there are multiple gas stations in town, a local grocery store and the closest Walmart is only 5 minutes give or take a couple depending on where you are in town.

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irr1449 t1_izf1ijl wrote

No way. Berlin had 10k people. It has more amenities than Conway to the south.

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jennarose1984 t1_izh75al wrote

Berlin is OK but it’s just so far from anything. I guess if you’re a homebody it’s just as good as the next place, but I personally hate driving north of the mountains. It’s like, what’s the point.

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Shirt-Medium t1_izgi4hv wrote

Thats where the Prison is.... Lots of families move there to be close to there loved ones in Prison and with that you get some not to great types of people

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bridgetlabrie t1_izf1rlk wrote

Check on the tax rates as well. The house/property may be cheap to buy but what is the yearly commitment after.

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CrotchetAndVomit t1_izgbu0t wrote

Property taxes in Berlin are high. The majority of households incomes there are in the 60/70k a year range total it's one of the poorest areas in the state. Poor owners and high taxes makes for hard times

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[deleted] t1_izhscuc wrote

Doesn’t really matter how high the property tax rate is, when your property is borderline worthless.

The cost of local government services doesn’t vary that widely from town to town. Conservative towns will spend like drunken sailors to maintain their sprawling infrastructure. Liberal cities will have more budget for “wasteful” services because sprawl isn’t bankrupting them.

Berlin is a special case because it has the classic Rust Belt problem. It’s a sprawling mess of a town, and all the dilapidated infrastructure they’re barely maintaining was built for twice as many people. It is a very difficult problem to fix that kind of fiscal death spiral, and the people of Berlin are really not up to the task.

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KrissaKray t1_izelfab wrote

I love that area and it's perfect for introverts. But it's far away from everything lol.

If I could work 100% remotely, I'd live in that area because the cost of living is so low, but I don't have that privilege :)

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MaidenKitsune t1_izfgpqd wrote

I recently moved to NH and was initially looking to move to Berlin due to how cheap it is. But my real estate agent and now other people I’ve asked about it say that it is not a safe area and there is a large drug problem. I’m not sure if that’s accurate but it is what I was told. Everyone I spoke to advised against it. Also there really isn’t anything up that way from what I can see, which isn’t a deterrent for everyone.

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AlfoBootidir t1_izfxsi3 wrote

Grew up there and hate it still. Schools are particularly bad. The education compared to Southern nh was laughable

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FenwaysMom t1_izhgx4j wrote

I actually said to myself about an hour ago the houses in Berlin are expensive! The houses were much cheaper pre-COVID.

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poLkadoTr t1_izr8n2m wrote

Second thissssss I’m down the road a bit in Jackson and can’t believe the Berlin real estate

2

trailing-edge t1_izep001 wrote

Used to be there was a really strong odor from the mills that would be a deal-breaker for me. Hasn’t been noticeable the past 5y or so, not sure if that’s because plants are shut down or they changed the process or what. Maybe that smell could come back?

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thentherewerelimes t1_izhe99c wrote

Voted #1 Most Likely place to give you cancer in NH!

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Happy_Confection90 t1_izhtfr1 wrote

Are you sure it's not Concord? I know 3 people who have had survivable brain tumors and 4 with other cancers. 5 are coworkers at the same office in Concord and the 6th and 7th are the husband of a 6th coworker and the young son of a 7th coworker from the office.

I hope that the rest of us started working from home in time...

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Reddoggfogg t1_iznnvhb wrote

Good Lord. What/where in Concord is this office?

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Happy_Confection90 t1_izqi0l7 wrote

A seemingly normal office park just off of Manchester St.

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schillerstone t1_izsxq4x wrote

Is it near the airport? Small planes still use leaded gas. Concord has a trash incinerator also

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Happy_Confection90 t1_izv1ygx wrote

Yes. Less than a mile and a half away.

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schillerstone t1_izvn6cn wrote

So sad. It's absolutely insane that aviation is allowed to still use leaded gasoline. Supposedly the FAA is working on an replacement, but they are taking their Mtha Fn time.

1

SillyIce t1_izehry7 wrote

I don’t know, the place is kinda rundown?

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RedLeafRoy OP t1_izejl3j wrote

Some are and those are ultra cheap. Others look good (in online photos) but price is 1/2 of other areas.

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Spoonblade t1_izek6e9 wrote

I think they mean that the town is kinda run down

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SillyIce t1_izeom0m wrote

I've driven once and it was quite depressing, run down, abandoned buildings, houses. The price is down for a reason.

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FTheOldWest t1_izeqv0d wrote

As many have said, Berlin is typically a poor town. There isn't much going on there. It's pretty out of pocket from services also. I sent you a dm!

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Still-Sun-4560 t1_izftt6a wrote

Lincoln is a lot better

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RedLeafRoy OP t1_izfv5ld wrote

Thank you. But I see no houses listed online for sale in Lincoln. I could watch for some, I guess.

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occasional_cynic t1_izg78t9 wrote

Prices in Lincoln/Woodstock and Conway/Bartlett are ludicrous right now. Good locations but please wait. The market is starting to turn.

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Stunning_Ad9784 t1_izg6355 wrote

It's got a wet woody smell to it. Nothing compared to a paper pulp mill, but still noticeable if buying closer to it.

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eldragon225 t1_izh9yny wrote

Berlin is a big bowl, in the winter everyone burns wood and the air pollution settles around the city making for poor air quality.

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MeanFluffyBunny t1_izix0db wrote

I’m from Colebrook, about an hour north. There’s nothing in Berlin really for fun small town stuff. But there’s some of the best hiking in the country nearby.

If I moved back to Coos, I’d probably go with Littleton. Driving through Berlin is a little depressing

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Environmental-Buy460 t1_izf7d0t wrote

It's the New Jersey of New Hampshire.

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1moosehead t1_izfsk4k wrote

You make a lot of money but cost of living makes it unaffordable?

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[deleted] t1_izhr5se wrote

No, it’s the West Virginia of NH. It’s a small poor white trash mountain town where everyone’s either in jail or addicted to heroin.

I honestly have no idea what the connection to NJ is supposed to be. NJ is a high tax, high cost of living, diverse, heavily urbanized state. It’s about as polar opposite from NJ as possible, while still being in the same country. Hell, even Louisiana would be a better analogy, due to the French language connection.

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TreeHuggingHippyMan t1_izfa18g wrote

Is the paper plant still open and does it still smell?

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SadSecurityGaurd t1_izfc3ud wrote

Some of the locals claim some days you can still smell the odor from the mills, I wonder if the soil/air is a bit contaminated from all the industry there in the past.

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Cantide756 t1_izgmfzj wrote

I know it's in the buildings, also of the wind is just right (or wrong) the Rumford mills can be smelt

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RygarHater t1_iziz0y4 wrote

i'd like to piggyback on this by asking why Gorham, literally right next door, is such a (seemingly) nicer town. they're both very remote and have little industry.

i had some work driving thru both towns and found Gorham super charming. I always thought they could complement each other nicely... Gorham the upscale town w nicer restaurants etc and Berlin the more industrial side but not "worse" per se, but each playing a role. there you'd have your nucleus for a nice little area.

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kdubee t1_izizsx8 wrote

I personally would LOVE to live up there being outdoor enthusiast, great mtb, hiking, skiing close by…

5

dorvann t1_izhp5sv wrote

FYI at the height of the lumber/paper industry in 1930 Berlin's population was 20018.

Berlin's population in 2020 was 9425 so it has lost over 50% of its population over the past 90 years.

4

JMH-0911 t1_izhvv34 wrote

I started looking at real estate in Coos County in late 2019/early 2020 & many of those same houses, both single family homes & multiplexes, & they were much cheaper then than they are now. Some of them have tripled in value without any work being done to them. I'm still considering buying something up there eventually but definitely not in this current market.

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DirtMobile35 t1_izege5c wrote

I've asked people from there the same question. Apparently the remoteness, and the stink from the paper mill drove them away. The paper mill is gone now.

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SadSecurityGaurd t1_j1ioqrd wrote

I know this post is old now but I wonder if OP is here right now

1

RedLeafRoy OP t1_j25qt6a wrote

I am now. Is there something you want to talk about?

1

wallflowerattheorgy t1_izeltd8 wrote

The reason it's 20 miles from nowhere and doesn't have anything going on is because it's a prison town. Most of the people who live there have family on the inside and stay close to visit. Do with that information what you will.

−6

threepawsonesock t1_izenk57 wrote

Most of the people who live in prison towns work in the prisons. It’s exceedingly rare for families to move to a town to be nearby an inmate. You think poor people from Manchester are going to move away from their support systems so they can live in Berlin?

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Arthur-Morgans-Beard t1_izf3hvq wrote

My wife is from Berlin, saying that "most" of the people who live there have family on the inside is not even close to true. Off the top of my head I know fifty people who live there and none of them have any ties what-so-ever to the prison.

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Samiann1899 t1_izfdkv7 wrote

That is entirely not true. People do not move cities to be close to an inmate. Certainly not 10,000. I don’t know anyone who has a family member on the inside and neither does my family, who have lived there since before the prison was built. ‘Most’ people in a ‘prison town’ would work for the prison not be visiting inmatws

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zetterbeauty t1_izg4e2r wrote

This is a spectacularly bad take. Prisons more often than not are big providers of jobs in prison towns.

8

kevn69 t1_izgolgj wrote

No, fuck that. Anything north of Concord is dead regarding resale. It's pretty, sure. But you're great great great great great grandkids will only benefit from it, IF your descendents hang on to the property

−22

Beneficial-Hand4310 t1_izgpsc6 wrote

"Anything north of Concord is dead regarding resale"

You sir ...are a fucking idiot

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kevn69 t1_izgpye8 wrote

True, if you guys like trees and rocks it's great

−20

AMC4x4 t1_izhqcro wrote

I'm looking for said "dead" property near North Conway/Glen/Bartlett. Any idea where I can find these "dead resale" properties you're talking about? Anything decent I'm looking at is around half a mil.

Thanks in advance!

6

abriannaic t1_iziiuaz wrote

It’s almost like most people who choose to live in NH actually do like trees and rocks

4

bipolarbear326 t1_izgz7le wrote

Are you aware that the lakes region exists? My lakehouse property value disagrees with your statement 🤣

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