Comments
smitty9112 t1_jeee8ex wrote
It's an adaptation of the nonfiction book about the murders of dozens of Osage Indians back in the 1920s. The land the Osage ended up on turned out to be rich with oil, and greed lead to a conspiracy of murder to obtain their head rights to the oil. I actually just finished reading the book yesterday and can't wait for the movie.
Misdirected_Colors t1_jeejyf3 wrote
I always thought it was just like a couple people murdered. But recently read the wiki and it was 60+?! Like a cover up type situation that got way out of hand over 15-20 years. Wild.
cocacola150dr t1_jeembpy wrote
Having read the book it’s not a cover up, it’s blatant, it’s just that nobody cared. The head rights were granted to the Osage, but they were placed into a trust monitored by white people and they had to go through those white people to get the money. There was a main antagonist, yes, but there were also many one off killers. It’s insane that it’s all been lost to history and nobody would know about it if it wasn’t for the book being written.
Theungry t1_jees4eu wrote
The saddest part is that this type of thing is just a continuous path of US behavior. This isn't atypical or out of character for any period from 1492 to the present.
The current government investment in policing around MMIW isn't going to stop or even slow MMIW, but it will absolutely result in the killing of more indigenous folks in border towns. Meanwhile fossil fuel companies are siphoning money into local police forces to pay them to attack and arrest peaceful Line 3 water protectors who are simply asking for the US to honor their treaties.
No major news networks even show up to cover these things after a brief interest in the Dakota access pipeline bullshit fizzled out.
murkler42 t1_jeg1gf3 wrote
MMIW?
Theungry t1_jeg3bkp wrote
Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women.
It's a ridiculous problem that gets exacerbated by bad policing and bad policy.
StrombergsWetUtopia t1_jegf1h8 wrote
Reminds of Wind River, phenomenal film which deals with this subject
[deleted] t1_jeg2yz9 wrote
“Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women”
murkler42 t1_jeg3b25 wrote
Haven’t seen that term before, appreciate it!
Gone_Back t1_jef2zlu wrote
It was a cover up on the part of the FBI (predecessor). They realized the corruption and murders ran much deeper but wanted to scream success, so they swept the rest under the rug to be forgotten (that’s the whole point of the last part of the book). That is literally a cover up.
meeseeksanddestroy t1_jef7pg0 wrote
Was also a cover up by all state and local parties until the feds were basically forced to get involved. At which point they prosecuted a couple of high profile people for maybe 5% of the crimes those people were known to have committed and put up the "Mission Accomplished" banners.
Gone_Back t1_jefl0vw wrote
Yeah, the whole Reign of Terror is filled with greedy, disgusting, murdering, racist, and corrupt individuals. I definitely could add even more descriptors for the vile people involved, but it would go on and on.
Misdirected_Colors t1_jefllp9 wrote
Yea fuck RoT. Toxic pk scum
TheBoyWonder13 t1_jeffyi2 wrote
In the book there definitely are cover-ups, >!Hale was mostly pretty careful to cover up his tracks, never going through the murders himself and often killing off co-conspirators he'd hired in what looked like routine accidents or paying off private eyes and witnesses to obfuscate the investigation. It took a while before Tom White and his men were able to detangle Hale's "plots within plots", it's not like they were just killing the Osages in public in broad daylight.!< But otherwise you're right, after J Edgar Hoover thought the FBI had done enough to make themselves look good they walked away and let everything else fade away to time.
Equivalent_Yak8215 t1_jeezjfr wrote
Didn't Reese Witherspoon do a movie about this topic at one point?
Shavings_in_the_RIO t1_jeeuhbq wrote
It’s hard to come up with a good estimate since it’s not known what was a murder or what was a natural death. I was told it was around 100 or so growing up. You can talk to any Osage and they will have had a family meme bet who died during that era. My great great grandfather was one of the victims.
DisneyDreams7 t1_jeewr92 wrote
It was all murders, none of them were natural deaths because they weren’t extremely old
Shavings_in_the_RIO t1_jeexsm0 wrote
What? I’m a bit confused what you mean but there were totally elderly tribe members, some of them died naturally. This event took place over the course of 5 years. The reason we know that there were more than just the 24 investigated deaths was because the death rate from 1920-1925 greatly exceeded the norm.
helium_farts t1_jeg18o8 wrote
I guess Red Dead Redemption 2 was realistic after all.
elitegenoside t1_jefk985 wrote
Something about Native Americans being killed makes me think it didn't just "get out of hand." Pretty sure that was the plan, so they could steal the land.
Misdirected_Colors t1_jeflq3w wrote
Idk I'm of the opinion when anyone is killed things probably got out of hand. Wew boy that escalated in a hurry
Gone_Back t1_jef1rln wrote
The book was so damn good. I even love the follow up at the end the author has on his own investigations. It shows the extent of cover up was truly never fully uncovered. I don’t want to give too much away but anyone seeing this post should read it.
smitty9112 t1_jef9bxy wrote
Yeah I'm really curious to see the format of the movie and how it will all be covered.
CousinCleetus24 t1_jeerzak wrote
Book was phenomenal.
MartyVanB t1_jeeopmo wrote
I didnt like the book that much. It wasnt horrible but IIRC it was hard to keep track of who was who
[deleted] t1_jeevvim wrote
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suzypulledapistol t1_jeeyfo1 wrote
A... are you high?
MirthandMystery t1_jeeyr4q wrote
Haha no didn’t see they replied to post with same info. Juggling a call, texting friend, reading another subreddit, and trading stocks. Deleting reply now.
eddiejugs t1_jeep12a wrote
It's a horrible story and only adding high profile actors will take away from the horrendous acts by the characters. People will want Oscars for Leo rather than an introspective look.
arcenceil89 t1_jedztou wrote
We now know it's nearly 4 hours in runtime
Blastmaster29 t1_jeejdo7 wrote
It’s 190 minutes so a little over 3 hours
[deleted] t1_jef1pex wrote
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KillMeNowFFS t1_jeekkst wrote
nah, it’s shorter than The Irishman…
Plenty_Marzipan_4477 t1_jee9xum wrote
It better be streaming...
Kylestache t1_jeeflnm wrote
It’s releasing on Apple.
[deleted] t1_jef10uh wrote
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[deleted] t1_jef1juy wrote
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thatguy9921 t1_jee4hnn wrote
This years The Whale
w_paskee t1_jeeh3a7 wrote
The Whale PART II given it released this year for some countries
Midwest-Drone t1_jeee71r wrote
I live in Oklahoma where it was shot so I can’t say that
zombifieryeet t1_jeemlz0 wrote
Im glad that in the past few years there have been more and more high budget productions in Oklahoma
smitty9112 t1_jeee955 wrote
It's an adaptation of the nonfiction book about the murders of dozens of Osage Indians back in the 1920s. The land the Osage ended up on turned out to be rich with oil, and greed lead to a conspiracy of murder to obtain their head rights to the oil. It was one of the first big cases tackled by J Edgar Hoover's Bureau that led to the rise of the FBI. I actually just finished reading the book yesterday and can't wait for the movie.
PDXmadeMe t1_jeeciny wrote
It’s based on a book
MirthandMystery t1_jeeuzou wrote
Unfortunately the story isn’t more widely known and hasn’t yet been folded into the general consciousness but is known by those who read the best selling book by David Gann called Killer of the Flower Moon (the Osage Murders the birth of the FBI). He’s an excellent author and does brilliant research. Ive long been a podcast listener and heard him talk about the story in an interview he did here in 2018:
This was riveting (if slightly dry) listen because grew up in Texas and never heard about these murders or about the calculating evil betrayal their spouses engaged in. Further, I may have a little Indian blood in my family mix on my dads side who lived in OK then (we don’t think tied to Osage but yet to be determined which tribe exactly) and hearing the story further piqued my interest in genealogy and early US history to figure out how we all got here today, why are there so few Indians left (beyond obvious and known reasons) and facts of the systematic breaking of treaties with native indian tribes was a large part of it.
When treaties and theft didn’t work the Osage murderers just outright slaughtered their Indian wives and family. All for oil and money tied to the then new industry.
Sad thing about the Gann book is it was started in 2014 but came out in 2017 just before the huge increase of True Crime podcasts so it was somewhat too early to the listening party.
The upcoming film adaptation might get more traction:
“The book was acquired for film adaptation by director Martin Scorsese in 2017. Starring Leonardo DiCaprio, Robert De Niro, Jesse Plemons, and Lily Gladstone, the film is set to be released theatrically by Paramount Pictures and stream on Apple TV+ in 2023.”
Authors website: https://www.davidgrann.com/book/killers-of-the-flower-moon/
smokinokie t1_jefwrgg wrote
I grew up 25 miles east of Pawhuska and never heard of them until the early 80s when an Osage friend of mine told me about it. He swore there were over 160 Osage murdered. Went all thru school never hearing about it.
rmac1228 t1_jeehmzw wrote
Just started reading the book, so familiarizing myself with it!
MirthandMystery t1_jeexmtv wrote
The David Gann book? (Killer of the Flower Moon, birth of the FBI)
He’s an excellent author and does brilliant research. I’ve long been a podcast listener and heard him talk about the story in an interview he did here in 2018:
This was riveting (if slightly dry) listen because grew up in Texas and never heard about these murders or about the calculating evil betrayal their spouses engaged in.
When complex iffy legal treaties for land and mineral theft didn’t work the Osage spouses just outright slaughtered their Indian wives and family. All for oil and money tied to the then new industry. Insane.
Sad thing about the Gann book is it was started in 2014 but came out in 2017 just before the huge increase of True Crime podcasts so it was somewhat too early to the listening party.
The upcoming film adaptation due out this year might get more traction.
Dubious_Titan t1_jeejoal wrote
I read the book a while ago, and we were taught about the murders in social studies class back in the 90s.
kevlarcupid t1_jefazyb wrote
I haven’t even seen the picture. I know the title and that Scorsese is involved (assuming directing) and that’s all the information I want about it.
[deleted] t1_jedxbzv wrote
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Xenomorph_kills t1_jedxeg9 wrote
Oscar season release. Makes sense
[deleted] t1_jedxvco wrote
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Xenomorph_kills t1_jedxy9h wrote
It’s actually more of a reason it’ll be great. At least worthy to win Oscars. That’s when all the Oscar potentials usually come out
[deleted] t1_jedyawc wrote
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data__lion t1_jeeo9zg wrote
Honestly one of my favourite historical non fiction novels of all time, I hope they do it justice ! The story is wild and unique to its time.
pbspry t1_jee8nik wrote
Reading the book right now and holy shit what a story. Can't wait to see what Marty does with it.
ProAssassin84 t1_jee91k9 wrote
Without spoiling what is it about
pbspry t1_jee9iml wrote
A bunch of murders in 1920s Oklahoma among the Osage (Native American tribe). Becomes one of the very first big cases to be tackled by the brand new FBI under J. Edgar Hoover.
PmMeYourNiceBehind t1_jeekmsr wrote
Is Leo playing Hoover again??
TinyRandomLady t1_jeeqi18 wrote
He is playing Ernest Burkhart.
TheBoyWonder13 t1_jefgont wrote
Interesting he was originally supposed to play Tom White but wanted to play Ernest instead, since White is definitely more of a central character in the book. I'd have to assume they'll be expanding Ernest's character a lot from what's in the book.
TinyRandomLady t1_jefjdfc wrote
Well, remember it’s a true story and he is in the family at the center of this particular murder scheme. So they will probably show more of him and Mollie’s life then what was mentioned in the book.
TheBoyWonder13 t1_jefk897 wrote
Yeah that’s what I mean, they’ll have to go beyond what’s in the source material. I’ve only read the book and haven’t done any research beyond that, so I don’t know if there’s that much real life story to tell with Ernest, but it’s possible they invent more stuff for dramatic license.
TinyRandomLady t1_jefsvtv wrote
I mean I think there is plenty to show and tell of their lives. I bet they refocus the film to center the Burkhart family and show their life and wealth and how they deal with the loses of their family members close and distant along with their relationship with Hale and his role in the community. Then will have White and the investigation and all the craziness that happened there but show him struggling with a community that is lying and benefiting from these deaths.
Did you ever watch the short documentarymade about this? It aired in PBS.
NerdBro1 t1_jefkaen wrote
Yeah I was surprised when I read the book because Ernest isn’t your typical Leo character at all.
ryanredd t1_jefmrzf wrote
White is central but doesn't have much depth as far as character, he's pretty much just a good cop. I can see why Leo would be attracted to the husband's role, especially if its expanded.
seven1six t1_jegudq6 wrote
damn didn't know he was playing Ernest. I thought for sure he'd be white. now looking at the scene photo I see Ernest
[deleted] t1_jef7cmz wrote
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LordPoopyfist t1_jeg2xvl wrote
He’s actually playing the Native American chief. Scorsese tried to stop him, but he’s insisting he needs to wear redface and full tribal garb.
[deleted] t1_jeesqhv wrote
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goodbytes95 t1_jeeuk60 wrote
Spoiler dawg
SJdport57 t1_jefgfq9 wrote
Interesting fact: the Drummond Family (as in Ree Drummond “the Pioneer Woman”) acquired much of their tremendous wealth in the aftermath of this killing spree.
TinyRandomLady t1_jeeqdc9 wrote
It’s a true story.
[deleted] t1_jefqo9d wrote
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Misdirected_Colors t1_jeek3rj wrote
60+ Osage Indian people murdered over 15ish years to get land rights for oil.
thatoneguy889 t1_jef3hpq wrote
To add to the other comments, this case was kind of the last straw that lead to the creation of the FBI. Before, it was the BOI (Bureau of Investigation) which could literally only just investigate and take their findings to local authorities who would decide whether or not to do anything with it. BOI personnel had no arresting power and weren't even allowed to carry weapons when acting in their official capacities.
MirthandMystery t1_jeey2hn wrote
Unfortunately the story isn’t more widely known and hasn’t yet been folded into the general consciousness but is known by those who read the best selling book by David Gann called Killer of the Flower Moon (the Osage Murders the birth of the FBI). He’s an excellent author and does brilliant research.
Ive long been a podcast listener and heard him talk about the story in an interview he did here in 2018:
This was riveting (if slightly dry) listen because grew up in Texas and never heard about these murders or about the calculating evil betrayal their spouses engaged in.
Sad thing about the Gann book is it was started in 2014 but came out in 2017 just before the huge increase of True Crime podcasts so it was somewhat too early to the listening party.
The upcoming film adaptation might get more traction:
“The book was acquired for film adaptation by director Martin Scorsese in 2017. Starring Leonardo DiCaprio, Robert De Niro, Jesse Plemons, and Lily Gladstone, the film is set to be released theatrically by Paramount Pictures and stream on Apple TV+ in 2023.”
JustWill_HD t1_jee9gfw wrote
"The Apple Originals feature, an epic about the serial murders of the members of the oil-wealthy Osage Nation in 1920s Oklahoma, stars Leonardo DiCaprio, Robert De Niro, Lily Gladstone, Jesse Plemons, Cara Jade Myers, JaNae Collins, Jillian Dion and Tantoo Cardinal, all of whom are expected to attend Cannes for the May 20 premiere, alongside Scorsese."
It's literally in the article...
qtrikki t1_jeeh9jd wrote
It’s better to ask someone who is actually reading the book than read a synopsis in an article.
SlippersLaCroix t1_jeelyz3 wrote
I’m reading it too. It’s great
BrownieEdges t1_jefkx0d wrote
Great book.
o7baseball t1_jeg6bhr wrote
You say Marty like he’s your friend lmao
Billfrown t1_jeelsto wrote
Ernest is such a good character for Leo. And can’t wait to Jesse Plemons portray Tom White. I’m a little worried about DeNiro being in it though. That casting doesn’t really fit at all. Seems like Marty just trying to shoehorn his buddy in and could torpedo the whole thing.
Corby_Tender23 t1_jeemb58 wrote
I don't think we have to worry at all about DeNiro torpedoing a Scorsese movie.
-ccp t1_jeerbvz wrote
Eh, De Niro is one of the greats and from the pics on set he looks the part. He can absolutely play a conniving villain.
Shavings_in_the_RIO t1_jeetsbb wrote
I have been looking forward to this movie for a while now and it makes me really happy to see other people excited too. I am Osage and I have family who was murdered during the Reign of Terror so the book is something that hits close to home for me. My ancestor is mentioned in the book as one of the murdered Osage. I’m hoping this movie does this horrible era justice but from what I have heard, it will. A lot of research has been done for this movie and a lot of time was spent on the Osage reservation. I’m glad these atrocities are being learned about outside of my tribe.
cbandy t1_jef8dga wrote
I live in Tulsa. I was a background actor and drove to Pawhuska every morning for about three weeks. It was one of the best experiences of my life.
You could tell how seriously they were taking the story. I saw Marty talking with Osage consultants regularly. They were meticulous about our costumes and props being period-specific. (I couldn't even wear my rose gold wedding ring, which I seriously doubt would have been visible on-screen.) The main actors were kind. Producer and 1st AD Adam Somner was fantastic in how he ran the show. The vibe was infectious in general, and Marty's obvious love for cinema and dedication to telling this story rubbed off on everyone.
I am not Osage, but I'd estimate about a third or more of the extras were. Everyone was respectful and reverent of the story they were trying to tell. It was an electric environment to be a part of. Maybe all movie sets are like that, but it felt to me like we were making something special... or at least attempting to.
Shavings_in_the_RIO t1_jef8vnm wrote
That’s really great to hear! All I knew was that they had consulted the Osage and that a lot of the extras were Osage. It’s great to hear how meticulous they were and it gives me a lot of hope for the movie!
willington123 t1_jegnpqd wrote
This is really interesting to hear. Any other insights about working with the actors and Scorsese that you’re happy to share?
creative_deficit t1_jeee5j4 wrote
This book is so good. Excited to see what they do with the movie.
For anyone who likes this book, check out Empire of the Summer Moon. That book was incredible as well.
ForgetfulLucy28 t1_jeekj7x wrote
So much earlier than it’s release! Why did they push to October?
AlanMorlock t1_jeelsvn wrote
Fall awards season. Similarly, Once Upon a time in Hollywood played Cannes, released in September. Parasite released in the US in the fall as well.
KiritoJones t1_jeergcu wrote
Interesting choice, since the movie that just dominated the awards season didn't have a fall release and there was a lot of talk about how that may have actually helped it in the long run.
AlanMorlock t1_jeeryyp wrote
Very deeply not the same kind of movie.
KiritoJones t1_jef2dxx wrote
Very true, I was just curious to see if the meta was going to change at all since streamers are a large part of the game now and apple is helping to distribute this
dolphin37 t1_jegy5d1 wrote
Is a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. If you’re making a big movie you target those months and those months are most likely to win!
My cynical view is that a movie like this is similar to The Revenant. A good movie with good performances but one that does not last long in the mind and needs to be released close to the awards season to be remembered. Everything Everywhere sunk right in to everyone’s brains and didn’t leave!
nayapapaya t1_jeew7rg wrote
So much of what happened with EEAAO was an anomaly though. It's hard to say how much of a change its campaign and win will bring to awards season just yet. It would certainly be nice if it became more typical for awards contending films to be released throughout the year but so many of them use the fall festivals to build up buzz that it's hard to see that changing so soon.
KiritoJones t1_jef2t0b wrote
Completely true, I was just curious to see if the meta would change at all, especially since Apple is helping distribute this move (I'm pretty sure?).
I think the only way for EEAAO's full year strategy to work is if the movie is extremely rewatchable, and idk how rewatchable a 3 hour movie with this subject matter will be.
RomanReignsDaBigDawg t1_jef1u9m wrote
OUATIH came out in July
Metricop78 t1_jefsh4f wrote
Once Upon a Time In Hollywood was released in July not September.
Jain_Farstrider t1_jeemehk wrote
Apparently this story involves family history of mine! Pretty cool.
kept_calm_carried_on t1_jef3a71 wrote
Noal?
Jain_Farstrider t1_jeg06lt wrote
Still struggling with darkness even in this bloody age!
campersin t1_jegy9jh wrote
You should read the book if you have a chance - easily one of the best nonfictions I’ve ever read.
GeronimoRay t1_jefibpg wrote
How the hell do they still not have a different promotional image? I've been looking at this same still for the past 5 years.
renothedog t1_jeeweiq wrote
This was an amazing book. I hope this movie does it justice. And that the movie may bring more attention to this historical crime against the Oklahoman Indian population.
guydog t1_jeebdlm wrote
Great book. Can’t wait to see the movie.
Max1miliaan t1_jefqnam wrote
Can we get a trailer instead of this single photo plz?!
Dix3n t1_jeen7w5 wrote
Not sure why but I always thought this was about H. H. Holmes and his murder castle.
Edit: That was The Devil in the White City, which was to be directed by Scorsese and starring DiCaprio. No wonder I got them mixed up.
crushing-crushed t1_jeggru1 wrote
I wish that had ever gotten made... Such a great read.
TheHeyHeyMan t1_jeea7m8 wrote
What they didn't say is that it'll be debuting at the Cannes Film Festival in 2025.
Misdirected_Colors t1_jeek9pk wrote
Iirc it already has a October 2023 release date
KillMeNowFFS t1_jeekqmq wrote
good one.
ThePhantomEvita t1_jees6t9 wrote
Read this book a couple weeks ago, probably one of the best nonfiction books I’ve ever read. It was a very quick read, and I hope that the movie reaches more people so the victims and their stories are known.
MidichlorianAddict t1_jefasg9 wrote
I am in absolute love over the name of this movie, the title rolls off the tongue so well
campersin t1_jegyg9g wrote
I know it’s a mouthful, but it’s taken from the title of the book it’s based on, one of the best nonfictions I’ve ever read. If not the best.
bilzui t1_jefr0sy wrote
just give us another still already
imeanrenaissance t1_jef2b19 wrote
Where’s the damn trailer? Been waiting for this one.
thatoneguy889 t1_jef4w4g wrote
I'm curious how much they'll go into Vaughan's disappearance because the author pretty much pieced together what happened just by reading some public records in an archive and it's still "unsolved" because basically no one has bothered (intentionally or not) to look into it.
NormanBates2023 t1_jeejz0u wrote
Looking forward to this gem.
[deleted] t1_jeelic6 wrote
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leroi7 t1_jeelvsg wrote
The real question here is…will it have Rolling Stones music?
EvilioMTE t1_jeh1rjl wrote
Did Silence?
ElTunaGrande t1_jef5kzr wrote
The book kicks ass. This movie should be awesome.
smurf_diggler t1_jef5yq7 wrote
I need to finish this book. It's crazy I never even heard of any of this before and I live in a area where t native population is huge. We were never taught about any of this in school.
[deleted] t1_jef7dd1 wrote
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AztecHoodlum t1_jefpe6o wrote
Does that mean it’s going to be cut to be under 3 hours? I think I read in a previous article that one of the hurdles in getting it to Cannes was its long runtime that they didn’t want to have to deal with.
animatedvegetation07 t1_jefrs5n wrote
Can't wait to see what Marty does with it
proudkingdom_69 t1_jeg6wgb wrote
Reading the book right now and holy shit what a story.
goliathfasa t1_jeg9i8q wrote
Naw man. Geoff gonna snatch that World Premiere up for TGA.
Angry_Walnut t1_jegav39 wrote
Finally! I read the book in anticipation of this coming out around the time I finished it. That was like two years ago.
tintedsemiconductor t1_jegf8yi wrote
I can't wait to see how Marty will utilize it in his work.
d33pf33lings t1_jegr6oj wrote
When is this?
[deleted] t1_jee6834 wrote
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downcoldcoaster49 t1_jeg8hdp wrote
Without giving too much away, this is about
heady_billing10 t1_jegcfdt wrote
Without giving too much away, this is about
shakespearediznuts t1_jeelz96 wrote
so silly 2 hour standing ovation incoming?
Dinosar-DNA t1_jef0rcw wrote
And only this picture displayed.
ChamberTwnty t1_jefrciq wrote
I won't be there. Thank you for this useful information.
Xenomorph_kills t1_jedwgtu wrote
Who else has only seen this photo of the movie and know nothing else about it?