objectimpermanence t1_j1sm7un wrote on December 27, 2022 at 1:59 AM

Reply to comment by BookOfMormont in JC or Brooklyn? by Amsterdaamed

>And you’re two stops from Grove to the WTC. That essentially makes downtown Manhattan part of your neighborhood. People travel further than two stops in NYC and still consider themselves on their home turf, but somehow the state line predisposes people to think they’re further than they actually are. I blame the MTA map.

The problem is the infrequent PATH service on nights and weekends. That 10 minute trip from Grove to WTC can easily turn into 30+ minutes if you don’t time the trains correctly. Psychologically, standing around on a station platform and waiting for 20+ minutes is kind of a big deal. Adding a subway transfer to that trip will turn off a lot of people.

The NYC subway runs trains frequently enough that most people never feel the need to consult a schedule. Once you have to consult a schedule before riding a train, it is no longer a seamless experience.

That’s why New Yorkers make such a big deal about coming to JC. Coming here via PATH is not a seamless experience unless they’re traveling during weekday rush hours.

It would be a game changer if the WTC line ran every 7-8 minutes from 9am to 9pm on weekends.

RosaKlebb t1_j1v0i6b wrote on December 27, 2022 at 4:41 PM

Exactly, the PATH being a commuter rail first throws a lot of stuff for loops when it's not during that time.

It's not the most convenient and gets a bit annoying when you hit the bad hours and constantly have to anticipate and factor in that your en route time will account for waiting for 35+ mins for the PATH.

And that's not even factoring added time that can be attributed to PATH stations closed/skipped, lines closed, maintenance, accidents etc that can turn waits into a bigger hurdle.

Also if you got friends returning back to different parts of NYC from JC, nobody likes to have things be a science project of having that longer wait that can throw their entire trip for a loop because of how they weren't moving for 40 some odd minutes. Just because the PATH runs up near lines in Manhattan doesn't necessarily mean it is convenient for everyone's route back home when they already got other transfers to worry about.

I used to work deep in Bed Stuy and Ridgewood at off hours from Journal Square and the final leg with the PATH was always the biggest pain point in either direction with stuff because there wasn't really any backup plans in the event something went wrong.

I'm not gonna argue that the MTA is somehow immune to similar issues but when you're trying to get back to or leave Jersey City, your options are severely limited in the event something is taking too much time or went wrong; are you really saving much money when you're defaulting to the 50+ dollar cab ride back home when you just wanna get back across river?

I don't mean this as any disrespect for people's social lives but whenever these discussions on this sub often come up, I'm forever reminded of that one post from a few months back where a majority of people responding said how they pretty much only go into NYC for work things and light socializing(if at all), and it was pretty telling why so many people on here don't think it's that bad because they sparingly ever deal with the PATH when it is at its most inconvenient.

BookOfMormont t1_j1stx97 wrote on December 27, 2022 at 3:01 AM

I don't disagree at all on lengthy platform waits being an absolute drag, and an important consideration to over-all travel times. I've just also lived in Brooklyn, where latenight trains have the exact same problem. Maybe if you're in midtown Manhattan you can expect a train every few minutes at any time of day, but OP is considering like Sunset Park. I have friends in Park Slope, Gowanus, Boerum Hill, and Bay Ridge and we don't assume late-night trains will be convenient.

The Grove - WTC Path is as reliable as any outer-borough subway line that I personally have ever had to rely on.

objectimpermanence t1_j1surp5 wrote on December 27, 2022 at 3:08 AM

The subway connections to the outer boroughs might be just as infrequent as the PATH, but at least those people don’t always need to make transfers or pay double fares.

For example, WTC might be a quick 10 minute trip from JC. But how many people actually have the WTC area as their final destination? Most people are probably going to need to transfer to a different part of the city. Those kinds of trips are less desirable than a simple one-seat ride between Manhattan and, say, Park Slope.

BookOfMormont t1_j1sw9qo wrote on December 27, 2022 at 3:21 AM

The double fare sucks, for sure. I really wish the relevant authorities could coordinate on that. At least you don't need a whole new card anymore, that's an improvement.

But like I said in my original post, there are a lot of problems that a five figure savings in taxes will solve. There are worse places my money could be going than funding transit agencies, so I ain't real mad about it.

A one-seat ride is awfully nice and convenient, but just being on the MTA doesn't guarantee that. When I lived in Brooklyn, most of my trips were not one-seat rides, and the same is true when I visit friends now. The convenience factor tends to be (for us, these days) that we'll use transit on the way there, with books in our bags if need be, and if we stay out pretty late we'll take a car back. There again you've the cost of the tunnel compared to Lyfting between two spots within the city, but again, we'd have to be a lot more social than we are to make a noticeable dent in our overall savings living in JC.

So money aside, for us it's a time question, and Jersey City via the PATH is as close in minutes to anywhere we'd want to go as southern Brooklyn would be.

Aggravating_Rise_179 t1_j1xwpnq wrote on December 28, 2022 at 5:13 AM

Hell, its not even a given when living in Manhattan. I lived on West 191st and the amount of times I had to switch to a shuttle bus after a late night out or deal with slow trains after 42nd street was crazy. Literally, after 1am, all the trains are shit and its just as difficult to get around with the same wait times as the path. I take knowing my train will be here in 40 minutes over the "next train in 15 minutes", but its actually 40 minutes of the MTA.

Plus, at least the path is 24 hours... yes you have to wait a bit if you dont make the connection or the subway takes a bit longer to get you where you need to go, but atleast its not Metro North or NJ Transit were if you miss the 2 am train you are pretty screwed until 5. Its not seamless, but you really dont have to consult a schedule. You are not locked out of leaving NY until early morning if you so happen to miss the last train because the Path doesnt have a last train.

I get that it sucks to use the path overnight or even during the day on weekends, but again, unless you are in Midtown-Downtown Manhattan, shitty weekend and overnight service is pretty universal throughout upper manhattan, the other three boroughs and urban jersey near the path train