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War_Hymn t1_izp9zyi wrote

Reply to comment by Law_Equivalent in The Japanese cigarette brand weaponised against Chinese smokers in wartime by zhumao

>it's impossible morphine is "harder" than opium, the reason opium gets you high is because of the morphine naturally in it mainly.

So you're going to tell me a glass of whiskey (40% ABV) isn't harder hitting than the same size glass of beer (5% ABV)?

Refining opium into morphine or heroin removes the non-narcotic components and impurities in the natural product. The resulting product is much more concentrated in psychoactive agents, hence has a stronger effect for a given dose.

>Morphine was never developed

Morphine was first isolated in 1804/1805 by German chemist Friedrich Serturner - by 1817 he had started a pharmaceutical company to produce and market the new drug as an analgesic. Heavy use of morphine in medical treatment during the American Civil War (and the mass opiate epidemic it spawned in its aftermath) is so well documented that I'm surprise anyone would even try to refute it.

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Law_Equivalent t1_izv08ha wrote

"The resulting product is much more concentrated in psychoactive agents, hence has a stronger effect for a given dose. "

If stronger effect for a given dose determines how "hard" a drug is than LSD would be a harder drug than meth or heroin...

Do you think LSD or Meth is a harder drug?

Meth?

Ok than why do you keep repeating this nonsense about potency determining how "hard" a drug is?

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War_Hymn t1_izw3v1m wrote

>Do you think LSD or Meth is a harder drug?

Which ever has the stronger psychoactive effect. If you say LSD, than I guess it's LSD.

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Law_Equivalent t1_izv24ws wrote

From this peer reviewed article it says

"The effects of opium are essentially those of morphine but unexpected toxicities, suck as oesophageal cancer associated with “dross opium” and polyneuropathy due to deliberate addition of arsenic, are problems in some specific regions"

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1360-0443.1997.tb03197.x

If the effects are the same between two different substances but one has more risks than the other the one with more risks is the harder substance, Therefore opium is harder than "morphine ".

Both dextroamphetamine(an ingredient in Adderall) and meth have the same exact effects but meth is known as a harder drug because of the risks of using it.

Don't believe me?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3475187/ Concordant with the literature obtained with laboratory animals, direct comparisons of the effects of oral methamphetamine and d-amphetamine in HUMANS indicate the drugs produce overlapping effects on measures of cardiovascular activity, mood, and drug discrimination 14,1516 Finally, data from studies comparing the two amphetamines on measures believed to be predictive of abuse potential (i.e., drug discrimination and self-administration) indicate that equivalent doses of the drugs produced similar responses, further indicating that the drugs are equipotent 11,12,13 Recreational methamphetamine use is purportedly used in larger doses via routes of administration that produce a more rapid onset of effects (e.g., intranasal, intravenous, and smoked: [17]). The onset speed of drug-related effects is a critical determinant of the intensity of mood and behavioral effects of a drug 18,19. Thus, it is possible that potential differences between methamphetamine and d-amphetamine may only be detected following a route of administration associated with a faster onset of effects

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War_Hymn t1_izw3nsj wrote

>If the effects are the same between two different substances but one has more risks than the other the one with more risks is the harder substance, Therefore opium is harder than "morphine ".

I'm sorry friend, but I assumed it was obvious that I was pointing to the narcotic effects when I suggested morphine/heroine to be "harder" substances. I didn't think most people would think I was talking mainly or solely about chronic health effects of said drugs when I use the adjective term.

On a side note, if you're some sort of avid heroin/morphine/drug enthusiast or proponent that I somehow offended with my academic take on the historic opiate trade, then you should know that I don't have any personal "experience" with the narcotic substances that we are discussing here. I don't smoke tobacco, used marijuana maybe a few times in college, and barely drink as it is. My interests in the discussed drugs are purely academic, and I didn't post my comment with the intention of pushing any sort anti-drug "heroin or morphine is evil" agenda. All I know is refined morphine has more morphine than raw opium / cocaine has way more cocaine chloride than coca leaves. How they affect people when partake, I have to take such info from others.

PS: Now that I think about it, I did get some IV morphine during a surgery and recovery in my young teens. It was pretty good stuff, and helped take the pain off my collapsed lung and broken ribs.

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