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LeoSolaris t1_ix9dt16 wrote

250 years old is not really that ancient. Especially for a culture that is several thousand years old.

Edit: 150 because I can't both math and type at the same time.

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kruzer912 t1_ix9fd1y wrote

Actually if I’m reading it right they wrote it’s about 150 years old, so more in the timeframe of Ancient US President Abraham Lincoln

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Calcaneum t1_ixacnv4 wrote

> Experts said that the merchant ship dates back to the reign of the Qing Dynasty Tongzhi Emperor (1862-1875).

147-160yrs, for anybody reading your comment and wondering!

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Terrh t1_ixbjkvp wrote

But that's when it was built, not when it sunk.

They aren't sure when it sunk and it might have been less than 100 years ago based upon some of what has been found on board.

So not really all that ancient, but still really really interesting!

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Jak_n_Dax t1_ixa16xr wrote

You mean ancient Egyptian Pharoh Abraham Lincoln?

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GrantMK2 t1_ixa7n05 wrote

That's a really under-appreciated part of the Book of Exodus.

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Jellicle_Tyger t1_ixdesk6 wrote

It really sets up the ironic reversal when he signs the emancipation proclamation millenia later.

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mekatzer t1_ixbtj7r wrote

You mean like in the Ken Burns cave paintings?

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mauganra_it t1_ixa8l6q wrote

It can be argued to be a translation error, but Chinese history does not share the sharp divide in Western history around the 5th century when the Western Roman Empire collapsed. For the Chinese, modern Chinese history starts with the Opium Wars. Everything before that is considered ancient Chinese history, as the Opium Wars are the harbinger of the eventual demise of Imperial China.

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RollinThundaga t1_ixabtd4 wrote

Then an interpretation error on part of the translator; if it's being translated for an English-speaking audience, then they won't pick up on that cultural difference.

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Roastbeef3 t1_ixaoz7z wrote

But this ship post dates even the opium wars. Not by a lot, but it does

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jonnycash11 t1_ixbgmwz wrote

I think you mean “Feudal China” not ancient.

Ancient China would be the Zhou or Shang dynasties, maybe even the legendary Xia dynasty.

The Chinese 古代 period ends about 2000BC, based on this baidubaike (Chinese Wikipedia) article.

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Maleficent_Moose_802 t1_ixctgo7 wrote

Indeed, to the Chinese, if a historical period still have detailed and believable records, it is not ancient enough.

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Naritai t1_ixba4qw wrote

The word 'ancient' has certain meanings in the English language, and 150 years old isn't ancient.

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the_very_next_day t1_ixc3jrw wrote

I'd have thought that modern Chinese history starts with the fall of the qing dynasty, but anyway there's a difference between "not modern" and "ancient"

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mauganra_it t1_ixc53ba wrote

The decline of Chinese civilization during the 19th century is a major departure from the flow of Chinese history until then. China has been conquered many times, but so far the conquerors always assimilated to Chinese civilization. Colonization by foreign powers and the Unequal Treaties were a new pattern, and these events still loom large in the collective psyche of the Chinese people.

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Eurymedion t1_ix9mmi9 wrote

Early Late-modern period shipwreck is more appropriate.

Probably a translation error.

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LeoSolaris t1_ix9ohr8 wrote

Highly likely a translation error. I'd be curious to know what the original phrase was and what shades of meaning it had originally

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phenyle t1_ixbxfw6 wrote

It might be the character 古, which can mean either simply "old" or "ancient", depending on the context

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dusmeyedin t1_ixdbgxd wrote

I'd agree, China has plenty of artifacts from the times of the "ancients" (e.g. Shang Dynasty bronzeware, from 1600 BCE to 1000 BCE) that are far older than this.

If we're talking archeological eras, then this might be best termed "pre-Industrial", since the Qing Dynasty resolutely resisted industrialization.

However, from the viewpoint of a modern Chinese person, it's also worth noting that in the space of 150 years they had a collapse of a dynasty, the rise and collapse of numerous warlord states, the failure of a new Republic (complete with an abortive attempt by the president to name himself new Emperor), and finally the establishment of a Communist state.

The fact that the Communist government has held power for a (comparatively brief) 70+ years still puts it at one of the more stable forms of government in the past generation or two.

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toyyya t1_ixc51pt wrote

Even we here in Sweden have raised a pretty darn big ship from the 1600s and have since put it on display in a museum.

We did that in the 60s, it ain't exactly a huge innovation to be able to do so

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[deleted] t1_ixca9kp wrote

[deleted]

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toyyya t1_ixcaxb2 wrote

Pretty darn cool, you can definitely tell the difference in the seas of how well it survived in the waters.

We raised the Vasa out of the Baltic Sea which isn't quite salty or quite fresh water (aka brackish water). Meaning that there are less creatures able to break it down living in the waters which is why it survived relatively intact.

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LiTMac t1_ixcxvwt wrote

When I went to the museum about 4 or 5 years ago, I remember someone telling me that part of what helped was also the amount of trash that had been thrown into the fjord over the centuries, which created an anoxic environment down the bottom of the water.

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imafraidofmuricans t1_ixcozhh wrote

It does depend on where the boat is. Like, the Baltic has perfect conditions for preserving the wood and is quite shallow.

Had Vasa sunk over the Marian trench we wouldn't be picking it, is my point.

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bobrobor t1_ixd8ad4 wrote

The US raised a submarine from that time, so yeah it is not ancient by any stretch of imagination.

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pineapplejuniors t1_ix9zmbd wrote

Tbh I was expecting at least 1000-2000 years old and I was surprised something in the Yangtze could last that long.

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EndofGods t1_ixaac31 wrote

Some factors are oxygen, depth for example. Low oxygen means more preservation. Sometimes shipwrecks may look pristine and I find it fascinating.

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pineapplejuniors t1_ixdgnuz wrote

Still not in the "ancient" category, but older than the ship from this post and I've yet to find one more impressive!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_(ship)

Would be amazing to unearth a greek/roman/phoenician trireme, might need to have sunk in amber to preserve that long though lol.

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tafinucane t1_ixade2b wrote

Is Chinese underwater archaeology different?

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[deleted] t1_ixak5ox wrote

[removed]

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The9isback t1_ixbapl2 wrote

Or it's just a breakthrough for them? Just because other parts of the world is better doesn't mean they can't have a breakthrough?

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Creoda t1_ixc7cs0 wrote

What annoys me is the heading "shipwreck sees the light of day" yet there's no photo of it.

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IslandChillin OP t1_ix92ah8 wrote

"On Monday, as a shipwreck was slowly pulled out of the water from the bottom of a riverbed where it had been laying for more than a century and a half, Chinese archaeology witnessed a new breakthrough in the field of underwater archaeology. The salvage operation took nearly three hours to remove the shipwreck along with a large caisson, a watertight chamber that had been built specially for the wreck's removal. 

In a few days, the ancient shipwreck is expected to be shipped to the former site of the Shanghai Shipyard, where further research and preservation efforts will be carried out. 

The shipwreck, dubbed the Yangtze River Estuary No.2, is one of the largest and best-preserved ancient wooden shipwrecks ever discovered in China and even the world. The ship was filled with a diverse array of cultural relics that are sure to prove valuable for research into the ships of the late Qing Dynasty (1644-1911).

The excellent condition of the ship and the rich cultural relics on board are of great significance for research into the history of shipbuilding, the shipping industry and ceramic production in China and the world, a spokesperson from the China National Cultural Heritage Administration told the Global Times on Monday.

The technology used to salvage the ancient shipwreck is also significant, as it marks the first use of a creative technical solution specifically designed to transfer the ship in its entirety."

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r-reading-my-comment t1_ix9n5ch wrote

How is this ancient, innovative or a big ship?

They found a moderately sized, somewhat old boat, and raised it.

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worotan t1_ix9rqos wrote

Since they say the tech is innovative, I guess they used a modern boat that is old enough to be affected by sitting in water, but which any mistakes in lifting it wouldn’t matter.

Better to start unproven methods with something relatively inconsequential than a real ancient wreck.

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tomsan2010 t1_ixb7l8o wrote

This! In the caspian sea, there are tonnes of ancient boats from many different cultures and times. If we can study them without breaking it, and preserve it at the same time, we could get amazing insight

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jbeech- t1_ixau0qw wrote

Using a giant caisson is brilliant! Well done.

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[deleted] t1_ixc211e wrote

[removed]

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KiwieeiwiK t1_ixc3d6u wrote

True, we should go to one of the western media organisations that cover Chinese scientific and technological advances such as.... Uhhhhh.......

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