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paulerxx t1_ir1e8u5 wrote

Hoping it's up state NY and not NYC.

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inferno006 t1_ir3i13t wrote

They keep saying “Upstate” but I really had to dig to find exactly where they are talking about. Onondaga County, outside Syracuse. Everyone in NYC thinks the rest of NY is Upstate. Syracuse is Central NY to those of us from Western NY, aka Buffalo.

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freightgod1 t1_ir4tbqd wrote

Cries in North Country.

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natethegreek t1_ir4x85b wrote

Went to high school in Champlain NY, I always laughed when people said "like Albany". Try 2 hours north!

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inferno006 t1_ir566u0 wrote

Went on a cruise this summer. Ended up sitting with a very nice couple from the Bronx at dinner each night. Get talking, exchanging where we are from and what not. The lady says “Oh Buffalo? I own property in Albany so that’s right there, right?” This statement was based solely on what she sees on thruway signs.

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Adventurous_Ad4950 t1_ir6d069 wrote

Many people in NYC forget there’s more state than just the heaping island of concrete, lol.

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azuser55 t1_ir3qa93 wrote

Too many vibrations in NYC to build a fab there

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oandakid718 t1_ir4fyjo wrote

Is this actually a thing? Interesting

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azuser55 t1_ir6ms5c wrote

Recently there was some work being done to upgrade a FAB. There is a neighboring fab across the street. To avoid disrupting their neighbors, the work had to be spec’d without heavy equipment, jackhammers, or large ground moving equipment. When you are dealing with nanometers of precision, even the smallest bump can ruin a batch of multi-million dollar wafers being run through lithography.

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emelrad12 t1_ir7goka wrote

That seems like asking for trouble. Like what about cars?

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DevilsTrigonometry t1_irb7v15 wrote

There's an orders-of-magnitude difference between the amplitudes of ground vibrations produced by cars and by jackhammers. Vibration isolation systems designed to handle normal traffic etc. would be overwhelmed by heavy construction equipment.

And when you say "asking for trouble," what do you see as the alternative? Space manufacturing isn't even close to being viable, so either we don't do nanometer-precise manufacturing at all, or we do it somewhere on Earth, and the latter means dealing with the possibility of ground vibration. (Or water motion, which is even harder to isolate.)

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emelrad12 t1_irb9yy4 wrote

Isnt wind even worse?

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DevilsTrigonometry t1_irbf072 wrote

It's much easier to isolate the contents of a low-rise building from wind than from the ground. The internal structure of the building can be made self-supporting, with the walls basically just 'floating' around it.

You can't really 'float' a floor over the ground - you have to transmit the force of gravity from the contents of the building to the ground, and any connection capable of transmitting force will also conduct vibration. There are all kinds of complicated engineering solutions for reducing the amount that's conducted, but they take up space and cost money, so it's usually more efficient to choose a 'quieter' site than to build a better isolation system.

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emelrad12 t1_irbgxb9 wrote

Could they just use something similar to noise cancellation, like in headphones?

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DevilsTrigonometry t1_irbkmal wrote

Active vibration cancellation is already in use in semiconductor fabs and other sensitive manufacturing applications. But it has technical limitations: just like active noise cancellation, it works better for lower frequencies, lower amplitudes, and smoother waveforms. So it's sort of the final layer of protection: first you choose a quiet site, then you construct the building and the equipment footings using passive solutions that dissipate as much vibration as possible and smooth out the jerks, and then you use active solutions on the equipment itself.

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Adventurous_Ad4950 t1_ir6dupc wrote

It depends on where, the eastern part of Brooklyn has some small chip manufacturers sitting there (my friend works for a gov. contracted manufacturing facility there). I doubt a large scale operation like Micron’s would fit there without causing substantial community displacement though.

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azuser55 t1_ir6lw2v wrote

I didn’t know that. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with me.

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RagerTheSailor t1_ir30v82 wrote

That money would give them a 100 year old abandoned warehouse alongside the Hudson in NYC.

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aDragonsAle t1_ir4iota wrote

This is a good and needed thing to help long term autonomy... But it does make me worry for Taiwan.

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DevilsTrigonometry t1_irbafvn wrote

It's very unlikely that US domestic investment will catch up to, or even keep pace with, global growth in demand for semiconductors. The entire world will continue to have a major stake in Taiwan's stability for the foreseeable future.

(The specific Western national-security interest in Taiwanese independence and liberal democracy may be weakened, which could be a long-term problem. But there won't be any impact on the West's willingness to defend Taiwan from a military invasion, armed coup, or other destabilizing attack.)

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freightgod1 t1_ir4th8z wrote

10 years before what Taiwan does can be replaced.

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aDragonsAle t1_ir52sls wrote

Not sure about your timeline, or the meaning behind your phrasing - but if China pulls a China (HK) or Russia (Ukraine) against Taiwan - the COVID/cryptomine chip shortage will have been a warm up...

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Weed_Me_Up t1_ir194j0 wrote

Goooooood!

Good to use the Chips act have immediate effects like this.

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SW2020 t1_ir1rsc0 wrote

I'll believe it when it's done.

How's the Foxconn plant going in Wisconsin?

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ke_co t1_ir2p92u wrote

Foxconn was a losing proposition from the start, as they were intending to bring a low margin commodity product to WI (led display panels).

Like Intel in Ohio, Micron will be bringing in higher margin products, albeit with huge federal subsidies. I’m not a fan of the public money, but it’s an investment in national security to bring back manufacturing capacity from Asia.

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Eudaimonics t1_ir2ckc5 wrote

How is Tesla going in Texas, Amazon in Tenessee, Apple in North Carolina or Samsung in Austin?

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xELxSCORCHOx t1_ir32g6i wrote

Samsung is a juggernaut. They keep expanding in the area. Tesla is not really online yet, but I drive by the facility from time to time. It’s huge and there is a lot of activity there.

Don’t forget Applied Materials, which is huge here. They build the machines that build the semiconductors. Not to mention Apple having thirty buildings or so, IBM, AMD, Oracle, Dell and a ton of other tech giants.

Austin is like San Francisco’s little brother.

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mikedm123 t1_ir39r3q wrote

Raleigh, North Carolina in checking in. Drive thru RTP is nothing is sneeze at earlier. I work in the construction world and still many things in the pipeline around here.

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ParaNormalBeast t1_ir4x3cf wrote

TI in Texas is building a 28 billion plant, largest in the state, as well

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Snoo93079 t1_ir42l4g wrote

Anyone following the foxconn story knows these are very different situations.

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TonalParsnips t1_irddt3p wrote

TSMC is well underway in Arizona, and the Intel plant has broken ground. So… believe it?

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SW2020 t1_ireridu wrote

As others have pointed out, this is a different situation. I agree, it is. My comment would be more appropriate for a different sub.

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BlueGuyBuff t1_ir1bkfe wrote

Surprised it would be in New York of all places but that's still a huge W

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Eudaimonics t1_ir2ce6g wrote

Global Foundries already has a chip plant in Albany and another just opened up outside of Utica.

NY has been slowly building a corridor for these type of companies and amass the workforce they’re looking for.

On top of that got TONs of graduates from schools like SU, Cornell, RIT, Buffalo, UofR and SUNY Polytechnic. All top 100 colleges/universities within 100 miles of Syracuse.

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set-271 t1_ir1h925 wrote

Water security is probably one of the primary reasons.

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[deleted] t1_ir36rmx wrote

[deleted]

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set-271 t1_ir3753c wrote

Amen. I just don't understand TSMC and Intel building chip factories out in Arizona, when everyone knows Lake Powell is drying up. It's destined to already fail like by next year.

Hearing about this Micron investment gives me hope America will get back on its feet again. 🙏

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SafetyMan35 t1_ir3pjc1 wrote

It helps as 90 minutes away is Rochester Institute of Technology which offers degrees in microelectronics engineering (the design and manufacture of computer chips) with a functional clean room manufacturing facility. They can tap into the talent coming out of the school and support internships (a required part of graduation from RIT.

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IronWolf1911 t1_ir3uoh3 wrote

It’s also about 90 min away from Binghamton University, Cornell, and like 20 min from Syracuse University. While they aren’t tech specific like RIT, they’re def going to benefit from this too.

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ArnoF7 t1_ir4fhmm wrote

People not in the industry probably don’t know this, and that’s very understandable. But NY state has a lot going on for semiconductor at the moment. IBM has a research hub in semiconductors in upstate NY for a long time and it’s leading the new US-Japan collaboration. Wolfspeed is building a very big SiC fab. GF is also expanding.

lot of actions happening in upstate New York. It’s a good thing. Chip manufacturing is one of the few manufacturing that’s not so sensitive to labor cost, making it a good fit for developed countries. Although the industry has it bust and boom cycles, in the long run the demand is always going up.

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shortyman920 t1_ir1sxrg wrote

Yeah, you would think a state with lower taxes and lower costs, but I guess upstate NY could at least draw from a richer talent pool with the proximity to nyc

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Twheezy01 t1_ir2fa6x wrote

I live in Syracuse, we get knocked for high taxes but it's not that bad around here. The people that get those jobs will be stylin

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croto8 t1_ir2q5gc wrote

I’m sure they were referring to corporate taxes.

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Twheezy01 t1_ir2u4ul wrote

I'm sure there were heavy tax breaks involved

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Bewaretheicespiders t1_ir23m30 wrote

How's the semicon talent pool in NYC?

Big population doesnt mean big talent pool in every sector. Remember THQ? They had a studio in NYC, up to the point they realized not a single employee was from there, they had all relocated for the job. So they closed it down and moved the whole operation to Montreal. Or so some former employees told me. Wasnt enough to save them though...

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SafetyMan35 t1_ir3pt2t wrote

RIT in Rochester has a full microelectronics program with functional clean room facilities. Lots of new talent 90 minutes away.

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shortyman920 t1_ir2jnee wrote

Fair point, and I admit dont actually know. It’s also several hours from nyc, but that’s a easier relocation for nyc workers than say in Ohio or Missouri. Lots of experienced workers end up moving farther and farther away from nyc itself anyway

It could be for something entirely different like deals cut with the state

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ddelisle t1_ir1tm30 wrote

All these new fabs that will be built in the USA: the chips will be sent to China/India/Taiwan/etc. to be installed into devices? Or will the devices be sent to USA for completion? Just curious how this is all going to play out.

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AnacondaPimpHand t1_ir1y6zt wrote

The chips coming out of these fabs are still in wafer form. They are shipped to another factory for “dicing”. Dicing is a much simpler process than the actual manufacture of the chips so I believe most of it is done overseas (cost saving).

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DePasse t1_ir4e2r1 wrote

Following the dicing packaging needs to be done as well. Purely diced dies are not usable as they cannot be integrated into usual electronics without a first level package for most use cases.

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oldcreaker t1_ir360a9 wrote

Hope they are cleaner pollution wise than the old factories were. IBM, Kodak, etc. did some awful stuff to NY.

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efh1 t1_ir5ut5r wrote

The chips act could potentially usher in good paying jobs and a strong manufacturing economy in the US but if it’s done poorly it will lead to pollution and indentured servitude. I worked at global foundries back in the beginning and it was run very poorly back then with most of the workforce afraid to quit because they would have to pay back five figure moving allowances they had already spent. The hours in that industry are rough as they expect 12 hour shifts and lots of night shift work.

Also, this is an opportunity to boost STEM education and transform education but again if we fail here it’s not good. These factories are 100% meant to become fully automated so we will need a completely different kind of workforce in the future. Mechanics, technicians, programmers, and engineers will be required and although there will be a huge influx of labor to build everything out it will eventually lead to massive labor downsizing once everything is running properly. We clearly don’t seem to be politically ready for that day.

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Garencio t1_ir25tkf wrote

While it’s good to see manufacturing come back to the USA Are these companies getting huge tax breaks after leaving US in the first place? I’d love to own something new made here

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lonestiz t1_ir4lzn6 wrote

Micron is a US company, they specialize in memory chips, based in Boise, ID.

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roygbiv-it t1_ir363n3 wrote

I'm from 'cuse! This is awesome!

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carrotwax t1_ir414jx wrote

The US for some reason wants to have significant chipmaking outside of Taiwan.

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black_brook t1_ir1zyxb wrote

Mt first PC was a micron. I didn't even know they still existed.

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itguyonreddit t1_ir2dv8i wrote

Um, they make Crucial memory, among a bunch of other brands. They are huge.

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happyjello t1_ir3embm wrote

By what metric is it the “largest semiconductor fabrication facility”? Is it the acres? Is it by capacity?

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Dark-Myst t1_ir2tey7 wrote

Semiconductors > Healthcare

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CallMeDrLuv t1_ir3vlw3 wrote

NY? What are they, stupid?

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Jojothewhale t1_ir19vsf wrote

If they do this and let the factory unionize, I would be more than happy to throw them some tax breaks to help offset some of the cost.

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Lt_Scott_Summer t1_ir1dmxk wrote

Micron is one of the highest paying companies in Idaho. They don't need to unionize.

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NEED_HELP_SEND_BOOZE t1_ir1inb1 wrote

So long as management can take away benefits at their whim, every workplace should be unionized. The workplace should be a democracy, not a dictatorship.

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OnionQuest t1_ir1j10a wrote

That doesn't really matter if joining a union means the employee captures more of the value of their output in compensation.

They could be paid $100k/year, but if their output is valued at $1M/year they could probably benefit from a union.

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PsecretPseudonym t1_ir1gsb1 wrote

Once it’s up and running, I’d be surprised if there were as many typical factory jobs from this sort of work to form a union as some might expect. I get the impression semiconductor fabs are highly automated. It’s not like workers are laying down and connecting those transistors by hand.

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kumatoras t1_ir1lzoa wrote

It still takes a lot of people to run a wafer fab. Intel fabs for instance are highly automated but you still need folks to keep tabs on the machines and also folks to fix them. These factories staff quite a lot of people depending on their size, and the more machines you have, the more people you need.

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SafetyMan35 t1_ir3q57l wrote

Lots of maintenance, support and cleaning that needs to go on.

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Warpig1497 t1_ir3wu3i wrote

I've done alot of work inside of intel in oregon and you wouldn't belive the amount of people it takes to keep a semiconductor facility running, just in trade workers it employer thousands to keep the plant running at quality it needs to be running and as far as the fab goes all the tools and automation typically take someone to monitor the process and deal with any problems, and most every semiconductor being built in the US is built by union labor

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Aeoleone t1_ir1icmt wrote

You'd be surprised. I'm not familiar with how micron operates, but I've worked at one of their competitors; there's a lot of jobs in maintenance and facilities support. The big hangup, IMHO, is that there's typically a 2yr degree / military background requirement, so it's harder to just go into the field.

My department, for example, was on the middleish size, and was staffed to have about 56 full time shift workers, outside of the non-management engineering staff.

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